Will Kavanaugh get the nod?

[Big Jim]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

That refers to judiciary matters, not political matters. You are conflating the two. Politics has no such presumption now, and never has.

Maybe it's just me, but I always considered the presumption of innocence to be a basic tenet of life in the United States that follows you up to and including being indicted for a crime, not something you pick up at the courthouse door.  We face many unofficial accusations throughout our lives, from parents, teachers, classmates, etc. and generally we are given the benefit of the doubt in the absence of clear evidence.  The Constitution is clear about protecting our rights, not granting them, so if we are presumed innocent while on trial it is because we always were.  It takes a trial with proper evidence and the unanimous decision of a jury to remove that presumption.

[Big Jim]

I was musing over some of this today, my mind replaying bits and pieces of what I've heard and I noticed what appears to me to be a flaw in Ford's story.  Again, maybe it's just me, but when I'm telling a story from my past the thing I'm least likely to remember is the exact year it occurred.  I might remember if the house had steep steps, or a pool.  I might remember various other little details, but I always start out with a disclaimer on the year such as "I was about 9 or 10..."  or "I think I was a freshman or sophomore" or even "sometime in the early 80s".  I've noticed the same in many others.  So it struck me as odd that Ford knew the exact year and almost nothing else.  FWIW.

[Hawken]

Here's what Candace Owens has to say about this mess.

 

[ExpandMyMind]

21 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'm not convinced of that.   Most people expected that Kavanaugh was getting the nomination for quite some time.   Her far left leaning affiliations and the timing of it all bring up some valid questions.  

She has voted for and donated to Dems. Not sure she can be described as 'far-left'. 

I mean are you seriously suggesting that Democrats fabricated this whole thing, in anticipation of Kavanaugh getting the nod? They had their plant ready to go. Prepped her for years with fake psychiatrist meetings and whatnot? That is a truly incredible conspiracy theory. Really, think about what you're suggesting.

Has this what it's come to? It seems that everything that Republicans don't like can simply be blamed on a left-wing conspiracy theory. It never ends.

I believed her. I think her far more credible than the raving Kavanaugh, who lied countless times. He claimed borking meant farting. His yearbook said, 'have you borked yet'? So, he was asking people if they had farted? He also claimed devil's triangle was a drinking game. Devil's triangle is a sexual act involving two guys and a girl, which is exactly the kind of act that Ford described. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by ExpandMyMind

[ExpandMyMind]

17 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Maybe it's just me, but I always considered the presumption of innocence to be a basic tenet of life in the United States that follows you up to and including being indicted for a crime, not something you pick up at the courthouse door.  We face many unofficial accusations throughout our lives, from parents, teachers, classmates, etc. and generally we are given the benefit of the doubt in the absence of clear evidence.  The Constitution is clear about protecting our rights, not granting them, so if we are presumed innocent while on trial it is because we always were.  It takes a trial with proper evidence and the unanimous decision of a jury to remove that presumption.

This has never been the case for job interviews or politics. The appointment of a Supreme Court judge is a combination of both of those things.

[ExpandMyMind]

8 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I was musing over some of this today, my mind replaying bits and pieces of what I've heard and I noticed what appears to me to be a flaw in Ford's story.  Again, maybe it's just me, but when I'm telling a story from my past the thing I'm least likely to remember is the exact year it occurred.  I might remember if the house had steep steps, or a pool.  I might remember various other little details, but I always start out with a disclaimer on the year such as "I was about 9 or 10..."  or "I think I was a freshman or sophomore" or even "sometime in the early 80s".  I've noticed the same in many others.  So it struck me as odd that Ford knew the exact year and almost nothing else.  FWIW.

Funny, I have about 6 years of my life, from 14-20, where it basically all just melds together. There are certain parts that might give me clues as to what year it happened, or maybe if it was summer or winter or something, but generally it's a blur.

The thing about memory is that it's not the same for every person or for every memory.

[Gunn]

Flake and few other GOPs called for a delay and FBI investigation. So I don't know if he's going to get it or not now. It could go either way or just be dead in the water for a while.

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Funny, I have about 6 years of my life, from 14-20, where it basically all just melds together. There are certain parts that might give me clues as to what year it happened, or maybe if it was summer or winter or something, but generally it's a blur.

The thing about memory is that it's not the same for every person or for every memory.

I bet you would remember the day you took a polygraph if it was only a month ago.    

Her memory seems so bad that I cannot take her word for it on something that happened 36 years ago.   Perhaps she believes it, but that doesn't make it true.  

[ExpandMyMind]

27 minutes ago, Lord Harry said:

Personally I believe the allegations are false. The woman comes across is disingenuous and border line senile with a poor memory.

You are in an absolute minority with that opinion. I didn't even see Fox News reactions use the word disingenuous.

29 minutes ago, Lord Harry said:

Put a bunch of drunk and horny teenagers into a room and would you honestly expect nothing like the alleged incident to transpire?

Uh, what? Do I expect women to not be held down and raped simply because the boys are drunk and, y'know, boys will be boys.

What on earth did I just read.

And that was right after you basically said that even if he did it, it was a long time ago, he's bound to be sorry, can't he just get another chance? 

I read a poll that said that 48% of evangelicals would still support him even if he was guilty. I never thought I'd ever end up conversing with one of them.

@Myles You just liked that post. The one where he condones rape and having a rapist as a Supreme Court Justice? 

Yeah, I think I'm going to be bowing out of this thread soon. I can't see it lasting much longer when there are people condoning such things. Holy crap.

[RavenHawk]

20 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

That's.. Even worse. One of the Republican Senators basically said the same thing. That they were going to create false accusations against Dems. I think that's actually illegal, no?

Tell that to the Progressives.  Republicans are always giving in and then the Progressives take advantage of it.  It’s time for Conservative spine.

 

With regards to Ford, that doesn't even compute. She came forward before he was even nominated. It was personal with the man, not the nomination, since her goal was to prevent the nomination in the first place. To say the Dems somehow are responsible for her, like Kavanaugh did, is disingenuous at best.

The timing is kind of convenient, don’t you think?  The proper place to bring charges would have been to bring it to the proper local authorities.

 

Perhaps she did come forward before he was nominated but it’s been since his name ended up on the list Trump put out.  At that point, the Progressives began building a case against each one of those on that list.  If Kavanaugh is not confirmed, how long after Trump makes a new nominee that a new accuser will come forward?  Or will the Progs wait until the 11^th hour again?  They are prepared.

 

I proposed the following earlier but it’s worth bringing up again.  Obamacare forced doctors to code their diagnoses for their patients and then report it to HHS.  That part of Obamacare is probably still enforced.  This probably includes coding notes from past years.  Utilizing EO 12333, Progressive Senate staffers probably use computer queries to find women that had reported rape from their past with the right demographics and then approach them as some kind of medical counselor and encourage them to ‘remember’ who it was that assaulted them. 

[ExpandMyMind]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

I bet you would remember the day you took a polygraph if it was only a month ago.    

Her memory seems so bad that I cannot take her word for it on something that happened 36 years ago.   Perhaps she believes it, but that doesn't make it true.  

It seemed good enough when she was quoting brain chemistry how the mind works. That she can't quite recall, immediately, particular dates from last month proves literally nothing. That doesn't prove she has a bad memory. 

You think you can be a psychologist with a PhD with a bad memory?

[ExpandMyMind]

3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

 

I proposed the following earlier but it’s worth bringing up again.  Obamacare forced doctors to code their diagnoses for their patients and then report it to HHS.  That part of Obamacare is probably still enforced.  This probably includes coding notes from past years.  Utilizing EO 12333, Progressive Senate staffers probably use computer queries to find women that had reported rape from their past with the right demographics and then approach them as some kind of medical counselor and encourage them to ‘remember’ who it was that assaulted them

Ahh. So just a gigantic, all-encompassing conspiracy theory? Seems entirely plausible.

[Lord Harry]

2 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You are in an absolute minority with that opinion. I didn't even see Fox News reactions use the word disingenuous.

Uh, what? Do I expect women to not be held down and raped simply because the boys are drunk and, y'know, boys will be boys.

What on earth did I just read.

And that was right after you basically said that even if he did it, it was a long time ago, he's bound to be sorry, can't he just get another chance? 

I read a poll that said that 48% of evangelicals would still support him even if he was guilty. I never thought I'd ever end up conversing with one of them.

@Myles You just liked that post. The one where he condones rape and having a rapist as a Supreme Court Justice? 

Yeah, I think I'm going to be bowing out of this thread soon. I can't see it lasting much longer when there are people condoning such things. Holy crap.

Show me where I ever condoned rape? All I said was whatever happened, it was a long time ago. The man was 16 years old at the time! The human brain isn't even fully developed until one reaches their early 20s.

People change. Everyone makes mistakes. Look how successful he has become in life? The man is a federal judge and a Supreme Court nominee. You honestly expect us to believe that he has the same mindset he had in high school? Give me a break!

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You are in an absolute minority with that opinion. I didn't even see Fox News reactions use the word disingenuous.

Uh, what? Do I expect women to not be held down and raped simply because the boys are drunk and, y'know, boys will be boys.

What on earth did I just read.

And that was right after you basically said that even if he did it, it was a long time ago, he's bound to be sorry, can't he just get another chance? 

I read a poll that said that 48% of evangelicals would still support him even if he was guilty. I never thought I'd ever end up conversing with one of them.

@Myles You just liked that post. The one where he condones rape and having a rapist as a Supreme Court Justice? 

Yeah, I think I'm going to be bowing out of this thread soon. I can't see it lasting much longer when there are people condoning such things. Holy crap.

To be clear, it was never said that she was raped.   Just that at the time she remembers thinking that it COULD happen.   Big difference.

I remember thinking I could get murdered while in a bad part of a city years ago.  

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It seemed good enough when she was quoting brain chemistry how the mind works. That she can't quite recall, immediately, particular dates from last month proves literally nothing. That doesn't prove she has a bad memory. 

You think you can be a psychologist with a PhD with a bad memory?

Yes I do.

 

[ExpandMyMind]

1 minute ago, Lord Harry said:

Show me where I ever condoned rape? All I said was whatever happened, it was a long time ago. The man was 16 years old at the time! The human brain isn't even fully developed until one reaches their early 20s.

People change. Everyone makes mistakes. Look how successful he has become in life? The man is a federal judge and a Supreme Court nominee. You honestly expect us to believe that he has the same mindset he had in high school? Give me a break!

"Show me where I condoned rape. But hold on a second until I once again quickly condone rape".

[skliss]

2 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Literally not one person said it didn't happen, except Kavanaugh. They used the old 'to the best of my recollection'. And one of Kavanaugh's own friends, who he mentioned multiple times yesterday, even said she believed Ford.

People don't misremember events like these when it's someone they know. It wasn't some random stranger who attacked her. She knew these guys, remembered, I imagine, every day for a long time afterwards. She even mentioned meeting Judge in a supermarket weeks later and told how uncomfortable that was.

Some things, after decades, can undoubtedly become cloudy, but others, as she stated, are 'seared' into your brain. 

That you see this as a political conspiracy doesn't add up. She came forward to her elected representative before Kavanaugh was nominated. She attempted to stop his single nomination, before it even happened. When he was just one among a group of names.

I have one question about this. Why not just pick another guy who isn't credibly accused of sexual assault? A Republican will get the seat without any doubt, so why this guy? Just pick someone else.

So none of what you said here is true. These people swore that it didn't happen. Far from they all knowing each other, her best friend said she's never met Kavanaugh. They ran in completely different circles. She also didn't remember much of any details other than details of being in the room. None of the people she said were at this house party live in the area she stipulated so whose house was it? Many of the callers to the station I was listening to were rape victims. Every one of them said they'll never forget the date it happened and a few mentioned the grocery store encounter as the part that sealed it as being false or false memory for them.  They all said they would have run away not casually said "Hi!" to the guy. 

As far as I know she contacted them July 20th, he was nominated on July 10th.

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

@Myles You just liked that post. The one where he condones rape and having a rapist as a Supreme Court Justice? 

Yeah, I think I'm going to be bowing out of this thread soon. I can't see it lasting much longer when there are people condoning such things. Holy crap.

You are using tunnel vision.    You are assuming her memory of it is correct and she was going to be raped.

She was a 14 year old girl at a party she probably knows she wasn't supposed to be at.  Her mind was probably running a mile a minute.   At the time she may have felt like she could be raped.   From another persons prospective, she may not have been in any danger of being raped.  

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, Myles said:

To be clear, it was never said that she was raped.   Just that at the time she remembers thinking that it COULD happen.   Big difference.

I remember thinking I could get murdered while in a bad part of a city years ago.  

I could elaborate on that.   I was staying at a hotel for business.   May have been my first ever business trip.   I was 23-24.   I wanted to hit a bar for a drink that evening.   I had the company credit card.   I walked about 3 blocks down the street (chose the wrong direction).   It was around 10 o'clock.   Very soon, I was the only white person among many black guys who I would swear were gang members.  As I continued to walk, a few of them started following me.   I was terrified and thought for sure I would die there.   I remember debating whether to attempt to write a note.   I had a pencil in my pocket.   As I kept walking, they turned and went the other way.     

[skliss]

Some of the other things mentioned on the radio:

She said when they pushed her into the room they turned up the radio so the other people couldn't hear her scream, then she said he covered her mouth so they couldn't hear her scream. It wouldn't be both. 

She said the house was near the country club but none of the people she said were there lived near the club. 

Her house was a 20 min drive from the club. She can't remember if she was driven home or walked or how she got there. That would probably be an hour walk? Wouldnt you remember if you had to walk an hour home after almost being raped?

The harshest callers were the former victims. 

[Imaginarynumber1]

1 hour ago, Lord Harry said:

The very soul of America is at stake here my friends.  President Trump has done the Republic a great service by nominating a man who stands for traditional Christian values.  If Judge Kavanaugh gets approved, the Supreme Court will swing to the right for decades to come.  He needs all of our prayers, because the political left is not above inventing fraudulent claims of sexual assault in an attempt to maintain their control over the national culture.  

May God bless President Trump and Judge Kavanaugh.  And may the Senate see through the lies and slander of the left and nominate this righteous man to the high court.

Christiany and you god can go right to your hell. We're not all puppets to nomad gods and your religion is not representative of this entire nation

[Imaginarynumber1]

47 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

 

Yeah, I think I'm going to be bowing out of this thread soon. I can't see it lasting much longer when there are people condoning such things. Holy crap.

Then men-folk have spoken.... as usual

[RavenHawk]

4 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Christiany and you god can go right to your hell. We're not all puppets to nomad gods and your religion is not representative of this entire nation

Most American’s believe in a Creator.  That does make it representative.  Just because one believes in GOD does not make them a puppet.

[Imaginarynumber1]

1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

Just because one believes in GOD does not make them a puppet.

 

I means exactly, that, actually. 

 

And belief in a creator =/= christianity and christian values, 

[RavenHawk]

48 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Ahh. So just a gigantic, all-encompassing conspiracy theory? Seems entirely plausible.

Obama weaponized the government to work against the American people.  It would have to have this capability.  Twelve-Triple-Three is the mechanism that allows it to happen.