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Still Waters

F-35 fighter jet suffers first crash

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Still Waters

The US military has suffered the first crash in its hugely expensive F-35 fighter jet programme.

A F-35B jet came down in South Carolina, the Marine Corps said. The pilot managed to safely eject and there were no injuries.

The Marines said in a statement that an investigation into the cause of the crash is underway.

The F-35 is the largest and most expensive weapons programme of its type in the world.

Global sales are projected at more that 3,000 aircraft, and the programme is likely to last for some 30 to 40 years.

But the programme has been criticised both for cost and combat effectiveness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45688255#

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lost_shaman

I think the biggest qualm that I've heard is it's single engine. It's biggest detractors have said that it could potentially be outmaneuvered by duel engine Fighters. That said, it was not designed to "Dogfight" other Fighters it was designed to "kill" other Fighters before the other Fighters even know it is in the Air. A test with other types of Fighter Aircraft in 2015 proved that the F-35 was not up to task in a dogfight mainly due to over automization of flight controls and lost to older Fighters in Dogfights. Lockheed worked with Pilots to allow more Pilot control and now it beats Legacy Fighters at a 20-1 ratio in Dogfights (should it ever need to). 

Here's why the F-35 once lost to F-16s, and how it made a stunning comeback

Edit: In the article above the F-35 was said to have been improved to allow Pilots to basically push the Fighter to the point it could slow down and turn, and thus Dogfight, almost to the point that it would be right on the edge of "falling out of the sky". It makes me wonder if this fact may have played a role in this Crash. Possibly if the Pilot was pushing a hard slow turn and maybe in unfavorable weather conditions. 

Edited by lost_shaman
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aztek

seems like they never learned f4 lesson, gun pods coming soon to all f35's near you

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lost_shaman
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, aztek said:

seems like they never learned f4 lesson, gun pods coming soon to all f35's near you

I kinda doubt that will be needed if the improvements made in the report I quoted above now give the F-35 a 20-1 kill ratio in Dogfights, then the guns shouldn't be needed. They would just take up space and add weight and increase the Radar signature. Again, the F-35 is designed not to get into dogfights in the First place but to kill other Fighters before those even know the F-35 is there in the Air. If the report I quoted above gives the F-35 the advantage in Dogfights now too without guns, adding them now just doesn't seem like a good return on investment or really any improvement.

Edit: That said I completely agree with you on the F4 and it's lessons. Also I saw a MIG 17 at Sheppard AFB airshow on that Base's 70th anniversary and that MIG was like a Rocket with little swept wings attached! Really impressive to see even today! Surprised their kill ratio against U.S. aircraft wasn't higher than it was.  

Edited by lost_shaman

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aztek
Just now, lost_shaman said:

I kinda doubt that will be needed if the improvements made in the report I quoted above now give the F-35 a 20-1 kill ratio in Dogfights, then the guns shouldn't be needed.

that is exactly what they thought about F4, then migs showed they were wrong.

20-1 kill ratio in simulator??? i'm sure F4 looked great there as well.

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lost_shaman
2 minutes ago, aztek said:

20-1 kill ratio in simulator??? i'm sure F4 looked great there as well.

Read the article, these were real flight simulations just using simulated weapons. 

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Thanato

 

4 minutes ago, aztek said:

that is exactly what they thought about F4, then migs showed they were wrong.

20-1 kill ratio in simulator??? i'm sure F4 looked great there as well.

The F4 was that they were reliant to early generation fire and forget missiles and didnt put a gun on it. The Days of the dog fight are over, pilots should still train for it, but now it is first one to see will be the first one to kill and this happens at many miles out of visual range.

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aztek
Posted (edited)
Just now, Thanato said:

 

The F4 was that they were reliant to early generation fire and forget missiles and didnt put a gun on it. The Days of the dog fight are over, pilots should still train for it, but now it is first one to see will be the first one to kill and this happens at many miles out of visual range.

that phrase is very old as well, at least 70 years old. it was complete false back then, will see if it true today,  when f35 goes against modern migs with trained pilots will talk

Edited by aztek

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Thanato
Just now, aztek said:

that phrase is very old as well, at least 70 years old.

Dogfighting as we know it, being two fighters in very close combat and fighting to win the turning battle. Those days are basically over.

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aztek
Just now, Thanato said:

Dogfighting as we know it, being two fighters in very close combat and fighting to win the turning battle. Those days are basically over.

there hasn't been any clashes of compatible AF since Vietnam iirc. 

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Still Waters

Latest:

Quote

The US military has temporarily grounded its entire fleet of F-35 fighter jets in the wake of a crash in South Carolina last month.

Inspections are to be carried out on faulty fuel tubes.

An official report questioned earlier this year whether the F-35 was ready for combat after dozens of faults were found.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45827795

 

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Jon the frog

Why we cannot settle things with some good gladiator matches.... just a good knife and let the two president fight each other. It's the reason we have vice-president no ?

So much money wasted...

Edited by Jon the frog
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Captain Risky
On 10/2/2018 at 5:06 AM, Thanato said:

Dogfighting as we know it, being two fighters in very close combat and fighting to win the turning battle. Those days are basically over.

until radar advances and counter measures catch up with BVR technology and necessitate the need to dogfight. 

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lost_shaman
On 10/12/2018 at 9:58 AM, Still Waters said:

Inspections are to be carried out on faulty fuel tubes.

An official report questioned earlier this year whether the F-35 was ready for combat after dozens of faults were found.

 

I understand the F-35 has one engine, but it like other Fighters has more than one fuel tank. So are these systems not redundant, as in if a perfectly good engine lost fuel from one fuel tank wouldn't the pilot simply be able to switch over to another fuel tank and restart the engine fairly quickly, before falling out of the sky? If not that then does this faulty fuel line cause the Jet to burst into flames? Even that would seem to have a solution like cutting the fuel from that fuel line? It just sounds like there may be some other factor in this crash. 

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