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NewAge1

Is Palestine the biggest open-air prison?

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NewAge1
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Palestine: The Biggest Prison on Earth – A History of the Occupied Territories

The history of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine is continued with Ilan Pappe’s recent work, The Biggest Prison on Earth. For those who have read Pappe’s earlier histories, it is clear the original Zionists recognized the existence of the Palestinian population and the resistance most likely to rise from it. Also recognized are the actions taken throughout the occupation and settlement that the Jewish settlers were intent on marginalizing, displacing, and cleansing as much of Palestine as they could of its residents.

Source: https://www.globalresearch.ca/palestine-the-biggest-prison-on-earth-a-history-of-the-occupied-territories/5655836

Any thoughts?

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seanjo

Gaza is run by a Palestinian elected group, HAMAS, The West Bank, under Palestinian control, is run by the elected Palestinian Authority.

 

My thoughts are anti-Semitic hyperbole.

Here is the reason Isreal exists...

Dachau gas chamber - Barracke X - Brausebad - photos and ...

thoughts?

 

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RoofGardener
15 minutes ago, NewAge1 said:

Any thoughts?

Yes. My thoughts are that this is yet another moonbat Global Research rant. The website is renown for its anti-Israeli pro-Palestinian conspiracy theories.  

 

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Aaron2016

UK Labour party's conference last month.  British flags were not allowed.

 

13970704151103761_PhotoL.jpg

000_19F25C-640x400.jpg

Dn8xtvQX0AAwgZu-1280x640.jpg

 

Little lost sheep looking for their master.

 

 

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Hammerclaw
19 minutes ago, Aaron2016 said:

UK Labour party's conference last month.  British flags were not allowed.

 

13970704151103761_PhotoL.jpg

000_19F25C-640x400.jpg

Dn8xtvQX0AAwgZu-1280x640.jpg

 

Little lost sheep looking for their master.

 

 

Some prison, if that many escaped.

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Dark_Grey
10 hours ago, NewAge1 said:

Any thoughts?

Israel allows Palestine to exist, albeit under an iron rule. If the roles were reversed, would Palestine allow Israel to exist? I think not. Not for a single day.

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odas
21 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Israel allows Palestine to exist, albeit under an iron rule. If the roles were reversed, would Palestine allow Israel to exist? I think not. Not for a single day.

1. So, it is a prison, right there according to your first sentence.

2. If the roles were reversed and even if palestine would allow israel to exist, how long untill Israelies would start attacking palestine with the same means palestinians are doing now?

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Dark_Grey
13 minutes ago, odas said:

1. So, it is a prison, right there according to your first sentence.

2. If the roles were reversed and even if palestine would allow israel to exist, how long untill Israelies would start attacking palestine with the same means palestinians are doing now?

Living under an "iron rule" and living in a prison are not the same. Israel doesn't care if a Palestinian wants to walk away and live somewhere else. 

Your second point is assuming a LOT.

Jews are not in the habit of strapping explosives to their kids and celebrating how great their death will be. Jews aren't salivating at the thought of wiping an entire race off the planet. The Jewish holy texts don't condemn Palestinians as hell spawn, either. Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, Israel had to build a giant enclosure to keep suicidal xenophobes from killing them all? If Palestine was Mexico and they hated us as much as they hate Jews, what would our border look like? 

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odas
9 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Living under an "iron rule" and living in a prison are not the same. Israel doesn't care if a Palestinian wants to walk away and live somewhere else. 

Your second point is assuming a LOT.

Jews are not in the habit of strapping explosives to their kids and celebrating how great their death will be. Jews aren't salivating at the thought of wiping an entire race off the planet. The Jewish holy texts don't condemn Palestinians as hell spawn, either. Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, Israel had to build a giant enclosure to keep suicidal xenophobes from killing them all? If Palestine was Mexico and they hated us as much as they hate Jews, what would our border look like? 

Irgun, Lehi, Haganah...rings a bell? King David bombing? Civilian victims, children, women.... maybe the british and the palestinians should have build a wall a long time ago. Israel WAS build on Terrorism, theft, murder...

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and then
2 hours ago, odas said:

Israel WAS build on Terrorism, theft, murder...

The Palestinians have never lost 6 million to gas and ovens.  The Jews decided that they'd make their stand in Palestine and their hard work has created a country.  The Palestinians never even tried to build a nation there, they just squatted on land they didn't own.  The Jews of Israel will never be forced off their homeland again.  NEVER gonna happen.  Endless hatred consumes those doing the hating.  You really should try to let it go.  

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
On 3-10-2018 at 9:42 AM, RoofGardener said:

Yes. My thoughts are that this is yet another moonbat Global Research rant. The website is renown for its anti-Israeli pro-Palestinian conspiracy theories.  

 


Google Palestine Open Air Prison and see al the other anti Israeli, pro Palestinian conspiracy sites why not.. Its a great way to instantly weed out the fake news disseminating media outlets, like you have:

"The Norwegian Refugee Council"

https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/april/gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/

"David Cameron", obviously part of some secret Palestinian propaganda effort:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-my-visit-to-gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/

Noam Chomsky, one of the most succesful pro Palestinian deceivers:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-my-visit-to-gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/

..Global Research doesnt stop there, it also serves in anti American fake news rhetoric, like there is:

"The Bureau of Investigative Journalism"

http://labs.thebureauinvestigates.com/fake-news-and-false-flags/ 

Busted! All of you.. Bloody anti Semetical conspiracy nutters trying to paint Israel as an oppressor of innocent, defenseless Semites (whoops) civilians instead of defender against the terrorist swarms commonly referred to as 'Palestinians'. Their control of Western media, as well as opinion leaders, is massive.. paid for by their massive financial assets, and sheer influence in the Western political sphere.

:lol:

 

Edited by Phaeton80
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odas
10 hours ago, and then said:

The Palestinians have never lost 6 million to gas and ovens.  The Jews decided that they'd make their stand in Palestine and their hard work has created a country.  The Palestinians never even tried to build a nation there, they just squatted on land they didn't own.  The Jews of Israel will never be forced off their homeland again.  NEVER gonna happen.  Endless hatred consumes those doing the hating.  You really should try to let it go.  

That Israel exists is not the issue. Where it exists is not the issue. HOW it was built and maintained is the issue.

Seems like you are blaming the palestinians for the holocoust in every post you make which is absurd. But then, I am getting used to the white supremacy doctrine..lie, lie, kill, lie and bend the truth.

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and then
4 hours ago, odas said:

That Israel exists is not the issue. Where it exists is not the issue. HOW it was built and maintained is the issue.

Seems like you are blaming the palestinians for the holocoust in every post you make which is absurd. But then, I am getting used to the white supremacy doctrine..lie, lie, kill, lie and bend the truth.

Absurd, just like your arguments.  It is YOU and others here who emanate toxic hatred from every post concerning this issue and most here see you for what you are... carry on... you'll pardon me if I ignore it though.  I have better things to concentrate on.

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Varelse

If it's a prison it's their own doing. I'd say both settlements are more like refugee camps controlled by 'militias' posing as the PA. If there was no conflict the militias would have no power so no matter what Israel's been open to Hamas or the PLO screw it up. If they didn't Hezbollah or Iran would. 

The fact that all this is based on bronze age fables and stories about magic mana and chosen people and stupid rock walls makes it that much more annoying. They had how many generations to anchor a culture and economy to that land? And they couldn't? Wouldn't. Sorry, if you ignore the ancient fairy tale angles it's just one more advanced civilization advancing in leaps over the other's population. Cultural Darwinism. The best the that could happen to palstinians is to spread them out all over the world where they'd eventually blend with other cultures.  

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and then
10 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Busted! All of you.. Bloody anti Semetical conspiracy nutters trying to paint Israel as an oppressor of innocent, defenseless Semites (whoops) civilians instead of defender against the terrorist swarms commonly referred to as 'Palestinians'. Their control of Western media, as well as opinion leaders, is massive.. paid for by their massive financial assets, and sheer influence in the Western political sphere.

A peace deal is going to be unveiled by the Trump administration, sooner rather than later.  It will be interesting to see what Abbas and the Hamas leaders decide to do with it.  I suspect that it will also be a hard pill to swallow for Netanyahu and even more so for Liberman and Naftali Bennett.  Unless the EU decides to pony up replacement funding that they've lost from the U.S., I think they will actually come to some kind of agreement.  Maybe not but I think that the financial incentives may be enough to get Abbas or his replacement to "give peace a chance".  Of course, it will only be hudnah for the Palestinian leaders but they'd better be careful in their speeches because if the Israelis are going to be giving land, this time around they are going to DEMAND the Palestinian leadership toe the line as well.  

I think the Arab governments in the area should go directly to the Palestinian people and give THEM the option to have peaceful, prosperous lives if they're willing to walk away from the terrorists that are holding them captive in Gaza and increasingly, the west bank.  Until Hamas and the PLO are neutered, there will never be peace without the total destruction of resistance in Gaza and the WB.  I think it may well take that but for now, maybe there will be a short season of non-conflict.

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RoofGardener
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


Google Palestine Open Air Prison and see al the other anti Israeli, pro Palestinian conspiracy sites why not.. Its a great way to instantly weed out the fake news disseminating media outlets, like you have:

"The Norwegian Refugee Council"

https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/april/gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/

"David Cameron", obviously part of some secret Palestinian propaganda effort:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-my-visit-to-gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/

Noam Chomsky, one of the most succesful pro Palestinian deceivers:

https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-my-visit-to-gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/

..Global Research doesnt stop there, it also serves in anti American fake news rhetoric, like there is:

"The Bureau of Investigative Journalism"

http://labs.thebureauinvestigates.com/fake-news-and-false-flags/ 

Busted! All of you.. Bloody anti Semetical conspiracy nutters trying to paint Israel as an oppressor of innocent, defenseless Semites (whoops) civilians instead of defender against the terrorist swarms commonly referred to as 'Palestinians'. Their control of Western media, as well as opinion leaders, is massive.. paid for by their massive financial assets, and sheer influence in the Western political sphere.

:lol:

 

Well well well... a carefully researched list - thanks for that Phaeton80. Lets look a little closer. 

The Norwegian Refugee Council: an organisation that has a track record of anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian (including HAMAS) bias. https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/norwegian-ngo-loses-its-way-on-gaza-border/ , and https://www.ngo-monitor.org/funder/norwegian_refugee_council_/

Noam Chomsky is a renown anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian advocate, and not a disinterested observer.  

As for the Bureau of Investigative Journalism article... it's very interesting, but I'm not sure what relevance it has to this debate ? 

If Palestine is an "open air prison", then one should ask... who are the prison guards ? 

Gaza is effectively controlled by Israel... and Egypt. Yet I don't see massive criticism of Egypt in these pages ? 

As for the West Bank.. it borders Israel to the West... and Jordan to the East. We hear lots of criticism of Israel, but narry a murmur about Jordan ? 

Here's a thing: no Arab nation wants Palestinians, other than in "refugee" camps or transient guest workers who can be kicked out at a moments notice. Ever wondered why that is ? 

Edited by RoofGardener
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RAyMO
6 hours ago, and then said:

I suspect that it will also be a hard pill to swallow for Netanyahu and even more so for Liberman and Naftali Bennett. 

Nothing I would like to see more than a settlement between Israel and Palestinians. If trump produces one that incorporates a two state solution and is near balanced - I will applaud it here. But at this stage I am very skeptical. 

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RoofGardener
2 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Nothing I would like to see more than a settlement between Israel and Palestinians. If trump produces one that incorporates a two state solution and is near balanced - I will applaud it here. But at this stage I am very skeptical. 

I fear I share your skepticism, RAyMO. The PLO doesn't want peace. Nay.. it can't AFFORD peace, as its raison d'etre would instantly disappear. 

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and then
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

I fear I share your skepticism, RAyMO. The PLO doesn't want peace. Nay.. it can't AFFORD peace, as its raison d'etre would instantly disappear. 

This is the situation in a nutshell, so to speak.  The leaders have made their fortunes over decades of "resistance" while using the youth as bloody pawns.  They created true believers in large numbers and if they suddenly admitted the truth about the situation, they'd be strung up.  That's why Arafat walked away from Ehud Barak under Clinton's attempted giveaway of most of Jerusalem and about 95% of the rest of the land Arafat had demanded.  Even THEN he balked.  Even Clinton had to admit who the recalcitrant party was at that point.  If "peace" is forged in this round of negotiations it will be because Trump finally had the courage to call the Palestinians out for their behavior and he de-funded them in a big way.  The real irony is that if a peace deal is struck, even if it only lasts a few years, it will be because of Iran's threat to the Arabs in the region and their recognition of their need for Israel's military support in such a conflict with the Mullahs in Tehran.

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and then
8 hours ago, Varelse said:

If it's a prison it's their own doing. I'd say both settlements are more like refugee camps controlled by 'militias' posing as the PA. If there was no conflict the militias would have no power so no matter what Israel's been open to Hamas or the PLO screw it up. If they didn't Hezbollah or Iran would. 

The fact that all this is based on bronze age fables and stories about magic mana and chosen people and stupid rock walls makes it that much more annoying. They had how many generations to anchor a culture and economy to that land? And they couldn't? Wouldn't. Sorry, if you ignore the ancient fairy tale angles it's just one more advanced civilization advancing in leaps over the other's population. Cultural Darwinism. The best the that could happen to palstinians is to spread them out all over the world where they'd eventually blend with other cultures.  

You have to admit that it's interesting that the Jewish texts from 3 millennia ago predicted that Jerusalem would be at the center of a global conflict at the "end of days" as they called it.  That city has no inherent wealth.  No oil or precious metals of any kind.  No seaport.  Yet today the entire world has to deal with the conflict that is on the horizon there.  Some say it's a self-fulfilling prediction but they never explain how it is brought about.  Jerusalem will be a burdensome stone, and all who attempt to cast it away will be cut in pieces.   Sounds pretty accurate today.

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RoofGardener
4 minutes ago, and then said:

You have to admit that it's interesting that the Jewish texts from 3 millennia ago predicted that Jerusalem would be at the center of a global conflict at the "end of days" as they called it.  That city has no inherent wealth.  No oil or precious metals of any kind.  No seaport.  Yet today the entire world has to deal with the conflict that is on the horizon there.  Some say it's a self-fulfilling prediction but they never explain how it is brought about.  Jerusalem will be a burdensome stone, and all who attempt to cast it away will be cut in pieces.   Sounds pretty accurate today.

Yeeeeees... except.. back in those days, "The World" consisted of the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt,  and bits of Greece :D So Jerusalem was - proportionally - much larger than it is in TODAYS world.

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and then
2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Yeeeeees... except.. back in those days, "The World" consisted of the Arabian Peninsula, Egypt,  and bits of Greece :D So Jerusalem was - proportionally - much larger than it is in TODAYS world.

Of course, and this highlights the accuracy of the prediction.  What other city on the planet weighs as heavily in the minds of world leaders?  No major country can afford to simply ignore what happens there.  Look at the hysteria that Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital caused.  The importance of that tiny piece of ground, especially the 35 acres where the Temple sat and where the Muslim holy sites are today, cannot be overstated.  If trump's team actually manages to bring the parties to the table and get an agreement, it's going to be the beginning of some real fireworks within a few years.  

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RAyMO
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

I fear I share your skepticism, RAyMO. The PLO doesn't want peace. Nay.. it can't AFFORD peace, as its raison d'etre would instantly disappear. 

I can understand that view too. So to be clear, I have no axe to grind in the situation, if Trump or anyone produces a reasonable two state solution I will applaud it, if not I will call it out. If a reasonable two state solution is proffered and the Palestinians reject it - I will call that out too.

You know by now that I am from NI and my experience is that no one party to a conflict can get, or be seen to get all of their wishes: comprises on both sides are to be expected and will be required.

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Phaeton80
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well well well... a carefully researched list - thanks for that Phaeton80. Lets look a little closer. 

The Norwegian Refugee Council: an organisation that has a track record of anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian (including HAMAS) bias. https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/norwegian-ngo-loses-its-way-on-gaza-border/ , and https://www.ngo-monitor.org/funder/norwegian_refugee_council_/

Noam Chomsky is a renown anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian advocate, and not a disinterested observer.  

As for the Bureau of Investigative Journalism article... it's very interesting, but I'm not sure what relevance it has to this debate ? 

If Palestine is an "open air prison", then one should ask... who are the prison guards ? 

Gaza is effectively controlled by Israel... and Egypt. Yet I don't see massive criticism of Egypt in these pages ? 

As for the West Bank.. it borders Israel to the West... and Jordan to the East. We hear lots of criticism of Israel, but narry a murmur about Jordan ? 

Here's a thing: no Arab nation wants Palestinians, other than in "refugee" camps or transient guest workers who can be kicked out at a moments notice. Ever wondered why that is ? 


Ah, so being 'not a disinterested observer' puts him in the 'anti Israel / pro Palestinian conpiracy theorist' category. Just like David 'Abdelkader' Cameron I'd presume. Wouldnt that disqualify any and everything you and yours have to say on the subject, based on your own logic wielded here?

Also, wouldnt it stand to reason the fact Egypt is exponentially less criticised in regards to the crimes perpetrated against Palestine / the Palestinians follows from the observation they are not and have not occupied, oppressed and mass murdered the Palestinian population over the last odd 70 years? Just a thought. Some blame befalls them, sure; but it pales in comparison.. obviously. There are two prison guards, where the one stands idle, and the other is actively torturing, terrorizing and mass murdering the prisoners using its position of authority. I guess these sort of 'personalities' are not alien to those that survived the holocaust..

Edited by Phaeton80
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Helen of Annoy
11 hours ago, Varelse said:

The best the that could happen to palstinians is to spread them out all over the world where they'd eventually blend with other cultures.  

You think Palestinians would blend with other cultures. But Jews didn't. They left ME centuries ago and spent these centuries preserving their own religion and culture, apparently ready to go back to their probable ancestral home. Otherwise there would be no interest in resettling in Israel, I guess. 

Why would people of similar genetic makeup (if today's Israelis are indeed of Hebrew descent) react completely the opposite in the same situation? 

Also, in the current climate of hysteric fear from Muslim refugees who won't blend in, it's morbidly amusing to see the suggestion of dissolving a culture that is Muslim among other things, by scattering its people around the world.

 

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