Was reincarnation removed from Bible?

[andoniogonde320]

This is a very controversial topic, but some sources do claim that early Christians believed in reincarnation and Bible mentioned it. i.e.

Jesus makes some statements about John the Baptist in the Gospels which could be understood as references to reincarnation. 

One of these are in Matthew 11:14: "If you are willing to accept it, he [John] is Elijah who is to come." 
 The other is 'But I tell you that Elijah has already come,
 and they [the Jews] did not know him, 
but did to him whatever they pleased.” 
 and there are a couple more references to John. 
 

This post is not to insult anyone's belief, but merely bring out the question and present some of the evidences out there so we can discuss. Please respect each other when posting.  

 

 

[Farmer77]

Just now, andoniogonde320 said:

This post is not to insult anyone's belief, but merely bring out the question and present some of the evidences out there so we can discuss. Please respect each other when posting.  

 

My apologies I did not watch the video due to being at work but according to the Bible Elijah didnt die so it couldnt have been reincarnation.

[+and-then]

Welcome to UM, andoniogonde 320.  The reason I don't believe reincarnation is supported is this from Hebrews 9:27, I think your verses may be more convoluted than these:

Just as man is appointed to die once,and after that to face judgment, 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.…

JMO.  Again, WELCOME!

[zep73]

The Tanakh (old testament) does not support reincarnation. It does not support Hell either. It has a place for soul purification which we today call 'purgatory'.

The new testament however supports the resurrection of the dead, which is probably the closest thing to reincarnation there is in the bible.

Edited October 5, 2018 by sci-nerd

[TigerBright19]

A spiritual friend of mine believes in reincarnation and one of the deciding factors for her belief is the Bible.  I forget the exact quote but she said in order to be saved and have eternal life you must be born again.  I believe our spirit is eternal.  Here is my theory.  What if there are only 5,000 souls in all existence and they occupy every human being from the beginning of time to the end of time.  So your soul could occupy your body right now and when your body dies your soul could jump into a body a thousand years ago and when that body dies you jump again - forward and back continuously until the end of time and every body has been occupied, and when the destiny of Earth has been fulfilled your soul and the 5,000 others will all finally meet in Heaven with incredible knowledge and experience of humanity.  Here is another theory, what if there is only one human soul and that soul occupies every single human body, jumping back and forth through time until it has experienced life in every body and at the very end of time on Earth that soul enters Heaven with the entire knowledge of all mankind, and every inhabited planet has the same process.  I recall a passage from the Bible which said that when you enter Heaven you will not have to ask any questions because the knowledge of mankind will automatically come to light within you and you will know the answers that you were seeking before you even thought of the question.  Could it be because you had previously lived the experiences of a hundred billion people and you immediately became self aware of those memories the moment you enter Heaven?

 

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Edited October 5, 2018 by Aaron2016

[Podo]

I've read the bible a number of times, and I really don't and have never seen any evidence for it supporting reincarnation. In fact, reincarnation is sorta the opposite of what the Abrahamic religions are looking for.

[Guyver]

When it comes to any given topic in the bible......almost any really........you can find both sides of the coin offered as bible text.

For example, you can find original sin, and not original sin.  You can find justification by faith....or justification by works.  Or, you can find justification by faith and works, and you can find justification by God's grace alone.  This is only one of hundreds of doctrinal beliefs that can go this way.  

With respect to reincarnation....I would say yes; it is entirely possible that such doctrines were removed from the bible, as it can be shown that throughout the centuries, bible editors have played fast and loose with the text.  It can be shown that the bible has been altered to suit the doctrines of various religious groups.  So yeah......possible for sure.  

[Guyver]

Anyway.....it is the humble opinion of this particular poster that reincarnation could very well be a real thing that people experience.  But, it is also quite possible that our existence is a type of illusion as well.  As I see it anyway and FWIW.  Regards.  

[Dejarma]

deleted= got it wrong 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Dejarma
spilling misteak

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

You can find justification by faith....or justification by works. 

I think that the reason both of these can be found is that people tend to look past the fact that those 66 books by 40 authors tell an evolving story.  The OT/Tanakh was written to the people of Israel both in their captivity, wandering and for them when they were placed in the Land originally.  They were being taught to have relationship with a single God at a time and in a place where it was very uncommon to believe this.  They were taught hundreds of "laws" for everything from hand washing and other kinds of hygiene to food preparation and types of food that should be avoided for health reasons.  Modern Jews still follow these rules in many cases.  They believed and still believe that it is their attention to observing and keeping the mitzvot that will determine their status after they die.  At least, this is my understanding.    Paul came along a few years after the crucifixion and ascension and was used by Christ to deliver a "mystery" or "new message of the covenant".  Salvation was something earned through faith ALONE.  If one called out to Christ in sincere repentance for their transgressions then they would be accepted and saved from damnation in eternity.  Their "status" or rewards in the next life WERE contingent on their acts of kindness in His name and for His glory.  These rewards will be given at the Bema Seat judgment of the believers.  Some will be richly rewarded and honored while others will have what few pitiful, half-hearted attempts to be kind for reasons of their own, burned up in front of them and the rest of the believers like chaff and hay.  They'll be left in shame for what they might have accomplished with His gift but failed to try to do.  That does not mean they've lost their salvation, however.  Even messianic Jews will be treated this way.  Their works will not determine salvation.  They will be judged just as any other believer in the Christ.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Anyway.....it is the humble opinion of this particular poster that reincarnation could very well be a real thing that people experience.  But, it is also quite possible that our existence is a type of illusion as well.  As I see it anyway and FWIW.  Regards.  

The idea of having to relive life many times until one learns the lessons has a great appeal.  It even seems just.  If it weren't for the clear verse I cited earlier, I might well agree with the idea of reincarnation.  I believe that we never really "die" in the sense that we understand death here in this life and form. Perhaps that is another way of stating that this current existence is a type of "illusion". I believe we transition to what is next and we are judged based on what we did here.  We are judged so that we learn from the experience and I believe we continue learning into a timeless future of existence.  

[Jodie.Lynne]

6 hours ago, Aaron2016 said:

A spiritual friend of mine believes in reincarnation and one of the deciding factors for her belief is the Bible.  I forget the exact quote but she said in order to be saved and have eternal life you must be born again.

Then your friend is mistaken. According to the NT, the only "rebirth" is through baptism in the name of Yeshua, and then, only upon the physical death of the body, when the soul is "reborn" in heaven.  For those that believe this sort of thing.

[Duke Wellington]

16 hours ago, andoniogonde320 said:

This is a very controversial topic, but some sources do claim that early Christians believed in reincarnation and Bible mentioned it. i.e.

Jesus makes some statements about John the Baptist in the Gospels which could be understood as references to reincarnation. 

One of these are in Matthew 11:14: "If you are willing to accept it, he [John] is Elijah who is to come." 
 The other is 'But I tell you that Elijah has already come,
 and they [the Jews] did not know him, 
but did to him whatever they pleased.” 
 and there are a couple more references to John. 
 

This post is not to insult anyone's belief, but merely bring out the question and present some of the evidences out there so we can discuss. Please respect each other when posting.  

Yes, not all books were included in the Bible. I believe you are after Thomas Gospel on the Infancy of Jesus Christ.

[Will Due]

9 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Then your friend is mistaken. According to the NT, the only "rebirth" is through baptism in the name of Yeshua, and then, only upon the physical death of the body, when the soul is "reborn" in heaven.  For those that believe this sort of thing.

 

Yes but, born again through the Spirit. Born again, spiritually. 

And water baptism is the Christian symbol for that. The water of life being a symbol for the Spirit. 

 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

 

Yes but, born again through the Spirit. Born again, spiritually. 

And water baptism is the Christian symbol for that. The water of life being a symbol for the Spirit. 

 

 

But that isn't reincarnation, now is it?

[Will Due]

57 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

But that isn't reincarnation, now is it?

 

No it's not.

But the birth of the Spirit is the beginning of eternal life.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Will Due

[Jodie.Lynne]

13 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

No it's not.

But the birth of the Spirit is the beginning of eternal life.

 

 

Is the 'soul' eternal?

If so, then your 'soul' existed before your birth, yes?

If your 'soul' existed before birth, did you not already posses "eternal life"?

[Will Due]

42 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Is the 'soul' eternal?

If so, then your 'soul' existed before your birth, yes?

If your 'soul' existed before birth, did you not already posses "eternal life"?

 

That's a good question.

It's my understanding that a soul is made of two things. 

First, those things that a person identifies with that have true spirit value and are successfully transfered to their soul.

This transference is accomplished with the help of the second part of the soul, which is a piece or fragment of the Divine which dwells within and existed eternally before we were born. And by this, Divinity helps us to adjust our thoughts towards progressing as a spiritual being.

In that sence, our souls are a partnership with Divinity and acts as a catalyst for bringing our material existence into the higher realm of the Spirit, here on earth, and then in the beyond.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Will Due

[Jodie.Lynne]

43 minutes ago, Will Due said:

First, those things that a person identifies with that have true spirit value and are successfully transfered to their soul.

Does a person have a 'soul' when they are born?

[Will Due]

36 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Does a person have a 'soul' when they are born?

 

Another good question. 

I believe it's practically true, one way or another, that even a new born infant has a soul, or in the case of its death in its first days of life, there exists something surrounding its existence that will work as a way for it to enter the afterlife. There to pick up living from an infant and growing up in a circumstance simillar to here on earth, but of course, entirely different. 

But according to what I've learned about a soul (in certain places), a person's soul birth is dependent, and contingent on the making of a person's first true moral decision. This moment is said to usually occur on the average, around the age of five years old. Remembering that a "moral" decision is not necessarily right by any accepted current moral standard among men and women at any given time in history, but a decision that is actually right, according to its true spirit value.

These types of decisions that have true spirit value, then create a place where our souls can grow up. More and more, because of our decisions, becoming better identified as a mortal spiritual being with what then automatically amounts to, survival capacity for living beyond this world in a continuing partnership with whatever or whoever controls the universe.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Will Due

[Will Due]

30 minutes ago, Will Due said:

There to pick up living from an infant and growing up in a circumstance simillar to here on earth, but of course, entirely different. 

 

It is also said that in the case of infants who experience an early death, they are always resurrected at the same time when one of its surviving parents are resurrected too.

However, this infant is then raised in a new family made up of, and headed by two unrelated survivors who did not experience father or motherhood in this life. Apparently, these infants or older children are not raised by their earth parents. I guess in the case where a person has had a successful experience in raising children, they go on to do other things that are next in life, which provides the opportunity for those who haven't had the parental experience to have one, since in the next life, procreation of offspring doesn't exist anymore. It is said that the experience of being a parent and successfully raising children to maturity is paramount as a fundamental qualification for progression in life.

It is also said that the reunion of these surviving parents with their deceased children in the next life is one of the most sublime and touching moments that ever occur in the universe. No wonder about that.

 

 

[Talkofthecentury]

I used to be a Christian and I believe in god still but as for Jesus I do not believe he is my savior. I do believe once you obtain enlightenment your soul gets to come back with your same body, a god amongst mortals unlocking more and more each time. Most of them are sought after by the Illuminati.

[jamesjr191]

2 hours ago, Talkofthecentury said:

I used to be a Christian and I believe in god still but as for Jesus I do not believe he is my savior. I do believe once you obtain enlightenment your soul gets to come back with your same body, a god amongst mortals unlocking more and more each time. Most of them are sought after by the Illuminati.

[SHaYap]

Good ol' Edgar Cayce is back looking for Atlantis ... again ...

~

[Jen5]

On 10/5/2018 at 4:28 PM, and then said:

Welcome to UM, andoniogonde 320.  The reason I don't believe reincarnation is supported is this from Hebrews 9:27, I think your verses may be more convoluted than these:

Just as man is appointed to die once,and after that to face judgment, 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.…

JMO.  Again, WELCOME!

This is very interesting because there are 2 men in the bible who appear to have never died. Enoch and Elijah. But there is also in Revelation, 2 "witnesses" who come on the scene who do great feats. If I'm remembering correctly, they cause no rain to fall for years, which makes people angry (I get angry when I'm real hungry too and no rain for years would produce a lot of hungry people) and so the angry people try to kill these 2 men, presumably so it will rain again, but whenever anyone tries to hurt them, fire comes from their mouths and destroys them.

But after a few years, men Some how succeed in killing them and their dead bodies lie in the street for 3 days while everyone is celebrating their death. But after three days, they are alive again. These 2 men, if they were Enoch and Elijah, would seem to make the verse utterly true that you mentioned...it's very interesting.