Platonic Life

[XenoFish]

15 minutes ago, third_eye said:

maybe God was still busy on the phone with the devil

Nah, devil's been at my place all day. Won't get off the playstation long enough to answer anyone's calls.

[Piney]

7 hours ago, eight bits said:

I liked Last of the Mohicans. Nuthin' wrong with that.

That wife beating, father-in-law beating, chauvinist drunk Russel Means wouldn't learn Lenape from a woman, then when someone from Turtle Town was brought in to teach him, he didn't care if he pronounced it right....and didn't...

[Piney]

8 hours ago, third_eye said:

I must confess that I do like lil' Kevin's epic of a flick, back in its day it was nice to see a throwback to the good old days where Epic and Blockbusters really brought the goods. If for nothing else, the landscape cinematography carried it all the way home. It is breath taking watch, and don't forget young Costner was just a scrappy young lad a little wet behind the ears

 

lil' Kevin and his brother done ****ed over the Oglala Lakota......

[Coil]

10 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Maybe if you're not busy you could ask him to intervene in slightly more pressing Earthly problems ?

--Jaylemurph

God only helps us so that he does so imperceptibly without attracting attention, so it seems that he does not participate in earthly events but hostile forces create explosions, wars, terrorism and create a lot of noise and God prefers to act quietly, from under the veil.

And for some reason, we think that if God is omnipotent, then he must intervene powerfully and strongly to sweep away the enemies in his path but God does not act that way. Sometimes he even runs away, ostensibly showing weakness but he is just looking for a more favorable moment to win.So say the books.

[Coil]

11 hours ago, danydandan said:

God has never appeared to anybody.

Spiritual people have seen and communicated with him and a person will be able to see him only when he opens the spiritual consciousness and goes beyond the limits of the universe where God is on the other side of creation, He Who is in eternity, God in Himself, the Creator outside of His creation.Even the Egyptians expressed him in human form:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptah

[SHaYap]

11 hours ago, Piney said:

lil' Kevin and his brother done ****ed over the Oglala Lakota......

Hollywood does have that habit of a way of doing things like that to people everywhere they are learning, some better and faster than others but there will always be those that will be stuck on both side of the pages

~

[Amita]

Platonic writings are often about the non-conceptual or at least the trans-conceptual, so language is a poor transfer medium.
Here is Proclus from his Elements, translated by the modern Dodds, not the more difficult T. Taylor. Still not a snap to comprehend.
 

Quote

PROP. 1. Every manifold in some way participates unity.

For suppose a manifold in no way participating unity. Neither
this manifold as a whole nor any of its several parts will be one;
each part will itself be a manifold of parts, and so to infinity; and
of this infinity of parts each, once more, will be infinitely manifold;
for a manifold which in no way participates any unity, neither as
a whole nor in respect of its parts severally, will be infinite in every
way and in respect of every part. For each part of the manifold -- take
which you will -- must be either one or not-one; and if not one,
then either many or nothing. But if each part be nothing, the
whole is nothing; if many, it is made up of an infinity of infinites.
This is impossible: for, on the one hand, nothing which is is made
up of an infinity of infinites (since the infinite cannot be exceeded,
yet the single part is exceeded by the sum); on the other hand,
nothing can be made up of parts which are nothing. Every manifold,
therefore, in some way participates unity.

 

[Carlos Allende]

1 hour ago, Amita said:

Neither
this manifold as a whole nor any of its several parts will be one;
each part will itself be a manifold of parts, and so to infinity; and
of this infinity of parts each, once more, will be infinitely manifold

Amita, your posts are always food for thought.

Have you noticed how the above could equally be applied to the energy dynamics of quantum physics? The whole proposition seems to require the reader to weigh things in some cosmic balance, which is equally as impossible as weighing things as isolated units. The absence of conceptual truth is very, very cool (if you're into that kind of bizarre, spacey mindset --which I am).

[jaylemurph]

11 hours ago, Coil said:

God only helps us so that he does so imperceptibly without attracting attention, so it seems that he does not participate in earthly events but hostile forces create explosions, wars, terrorism and create a lot of noise and God prefers to act quietly, from under the veil.

And for some reason, we think that if God is omnipotent, then he must intervene powerfully and strongly to sweep away the enemies in his path but God does not act that way. Sometimes he even runs away, ostensibly showing weakness but he is just looking for a more favorable moment to win.So say the books.

Well, we think of god as omnipotent because the Christian church has been promulgating that very idea for thousands of years. Most gods in post-PIE Western culture have been. I'm not sure why you need to act like the concept of an omnipotent god is a weird idea to arrive at; you're either being incredibly disingenuous or think everyone else here is a moron.

I don't believe in any god, so the argument is completely moot for me, but what's the benefit of believing in a cowardly, weak god who runs away when you need him? Why not just make up a decent god (since people invent them anyway) or just reclassify him as a ****ty culture hero?

--Jaylemurph

[Amita]

1 hour ago, Carlos Allende said:

Amita, your posts are always food for thought.

Have you noticed how the above could equally be applied to the energy dynamics of quantum physics? The whole proposition seems to require the reader to weigh things in some cosmic balance, which is equally as impossible as weighing things as isolated units. The absence of conceptual truth is very, very cool (if you're into that kind of bizarre, spacey mindset --which I am).

Being uneducated, the quantum physics application is beyond me.  

While I agree that knowing directly is seen most clearly non-conceptually,  Proclus here and most of the Platonic greats did not ignore conceptually, i.e. dialectic for example.  

Sometimes I think that logic & reason have at least two benefits: 1) Our normal consciousness is conceptual, so discovering a pattern that makes sense help reduce the mental fog. 2) The energy put into such deep thinking, provided it is motivated toward Truth or Goodness or Beauty, will produce a turn around or breakthrough beyond ideas. 3) We are here to be of assistance or help to other people & beings.  For humans we use our words based on our conceptual thinking to assist them and learn from them.

[jaylemurph]

9 hours ago, Amita said:

Being uneducated, the quantum physics application is beyond me.

I don't think anyone here thinks you're uneducated. Not even me.

--Jaylemurph

[Coil]

12 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

I don't believe in any god, so the argument is completely moot for me, but what's the benefit of believing in a cowardly, weak god who runs away when you need him? Why not just make up a decent god (since people invent them anyway) or just reclassify him as a ****ty culture hero?

--Jaylemurph

Sorry but God cannot correspond to the human desires for "the right God" because he is originally above human notions. And until you understand religious books about him, you will always demand from God to be who he cannot be.How can you then discuss God and demand something from him if you theoretically did not become familiar with the scriptures because in such a case you will forever reproach God and argue with religious people.

[SHaYap]

5 hours ago, Coil said:

Sorry but God cannot correspond to the human desires for "the right God" because he is originally above human notions. And until you understand religious books about him, you will always demand from God to be who he cannot be.How can you then discuss God and demand something from him if you theoretically did not become familiar with the scriptures because in such a case you will forever reproach God and argue with religious people.

Okay .. what's the secret password and handshake ?

How much do I have to pay ? Show me some Official Identification that authorizes you to collect on God's behalf ... I ain't paying in cash either

~

[Amita]

9 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

I don't think anyone here thinks you're uneducated. Not even me.

Yet that is the fact.  Not even a college drop out was I, more like a drop-in, was there so briefly.  So I followed my philosophical & religious vasanas (intellectual habits from long ago).  This results, like many self-taught folk, in a general familiarity with the areas of focus, but they are narrow, contrasted to the vast realms of knowledge out there.  I really did not have the drive (or competence) to learn Sanskrit or Chinese, just like to ponder on matters of 'high import'.

[jaylemurph]

12 hours ago, Coil said:

Sorry but God cannot correspond to the human desires for "the right God" because he is originally above human notions. And until you understand religious books about him, you will always demand from God to be who he cannot be.How can you then discuss God and demand something from him if you theoretically did not become familiar with the scriptures because in such a case you will forever reproach God and argue with religious people.

I understand multiple religious books about god. See previous posts in this thread. And believe me, your cowardly version of god isn't in most of them.

But to again repeat a simple point to you: I don't believe in any god, right or wrong, so maybe understand that point before continuing this argument with me.

--Jaylemurph

[SHaYap]

Are we still playing hide and seek with this God or not ?

~

[Piney]

30 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Are we still playing hide and seek with this God or not ?

If our gods are metaphors for nature and human nature is the Abrahamic God a metaphor for anal retentiveness? 

[Coil]

19 hours ago, third_eye said:

Okay .. what's the secret password and handshake ?

How much do I have to pay ? Show me some Official Identification that authorizes you to collect on God's behalf ... I ain't paying in cash either

~

Just read different religious books and accept what is written there then you will understand God.Because some read but they remain unconvinced.

[SHaYap]

2 hours ago, Coil said:

Just read different religious books and accept what is written there then you will understand God.Because some read but they remain unconvinced.

I can assure you that more than a few religious books will insist on burning you alive or tossing you over Temple walls down precipitous cliffs for what you are saying, I believe I am almost convinced but remain still as yet, unpersuaded

~

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, Coil said:

Just read different religious books and accept what is written there then you will understand God.Because some read but they remain unconvinced.

Worst idea ever.

[Coil]

39 minutes ago, third_eye said:

I can assure you that more than a few religious books will insist on burning you alive or tossing you over Temple walls down precipitous cliffs for what you are saying, I believe I am almost convinced but remain still as yet, unpersuaded

~

And you read spiritual books and do not listen to priests and various functionaries. Read Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads.

[SHaYap]

16 minutes ago, Coil said:

And you read spiritual books and do not listen to priests and various functionaries. Read Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads.

Who are these functionaries that you speak of ?

More to the point, one does not read the Gita and Upanishads, you study them, a salient point obviously lost on you, perhaps here it is best you for you to start reading the Heart Sutra as well.

~

[Coil]

43 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Who are these functionaries that you speak of ?

More to the point, one does not read the Gita and Upanishads, you study them, a salient point obviously lost on you, perhaps here it is best you for you to start reading the Heart Sutra as well.

~

Well, there are religious figures who speak with a microphone who say that God is cruel because little children die. Either God is guilty of crusades and medieval tortures of the Inquisition, or simply people claiming that religion is an opium for the people, faith for weak people, or intimidation by hell of non-Christians or ordinary people.

Once I liked Buddhism for the logical nature of their religious system, the structure of worlds, and compassion in Jataka describing the past lives of the Buddha.

 

[SHaYap]

27 minutes ago, Coil said:

Well, there are religious figures who speak with a microphone who say that God is cruel because little children die. Either God is guilty of crusades and medieval tortures of the Inquisition, or simply people claiming that religion is an opium for the people, faith for weak people, or intimidation by hell of non-Christians or ordinary people.

Perhaps you have been listening to the wrong boom boxes. You seems to lack an appreciation to the extra ordinariness or ordinary people

~ 

27 minutes ago, Coil said:

Once I liked Buddhism for the logical nature of their religious system, the structure of worlds, and compassion in Jataka describing the past lives of the Buddha.

 

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~

[Coil]

58 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Perhaps you have been listening to the wrong boom boxes. You seems to lack an appreciation to the extra ordinariness or ordinary people~ ~

I perfectly see what claims to religion and God in this forum and in the ordinary life of atheists or religious people.
 

Quote

 

You sounds like an advertisement for a Spiritual Emporium of Religion.

Don;t miss this amazing offer !!!!!

 

I respect all religions and if a person reaches Nirvana through Buddhism it is still better than nothing but I prefer Hinduism because it looks more widely at the universe and there is God in it and not only Impersonal. And the goal of Buddhism is to leave the world by unleashing the knot of karma and raising consciousness, and in Hinduism there is an idea to transform our world and body into the divine.