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Still Waters

Plans to give prison officers pepper spray

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Still Waters

A former prison governor has criticised a decision to arm prison officers with pepper spray, saying it is part of a downward spiral that will worsen a culture of conflict in a system already in crisis.

John Podmore, who turned Brixton prison in south London from Britain’s worst performing jail to its most improved, said the move – announced by Rory Stewart, the prisons minister, in the Sun on Tuesday – “is not going to help the control that’s been lost in many prisons at the moment”.

Pointing out that large prisons such as Wormwood Scrubs, another London jail, have only 40 officers in charge of about 1,200 inmates, Podmore told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “Prisons run on cooperation; they don’t run on coercion. They run on staff personal relationships and unfortunately there’s currently … in many many prisons a culture of conflict, and pepper spray will make it much worse. It’s a downward spiral.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/09/prison-officers-to-be-given-pepper-spray

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Piney

In the New Jersey state prisons they all carry a big can on their hip. Then they have 5lb cans the SOG teams carry. I was hosed with one. No fun, especially after getting shot off the top bunk by a beanbag. 

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Farmer77
28 minutes ago, Still Waters said:

Prisons run on cooperation; they don’t run on coercion.

This is 100%  true but when you're the only CO in the mod and 6 dudes decide they are going to square off against each other its sure nice to have the option to simply hose em down and watch them gasp for air while backup arrives.

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and then
6 minutes ago, Piney said:

In the New Jersey state prisons they all carry a big can on their hip. Then they have 5lb cans the SOG teams carry. I was hosed with one. No fun, especially after getting shot off the top bunk by a beanbag. 

Five POUND cans?  I carry a little 5-ounce sprayer on my vest when I walk just in case I meet a coyote- 4 OR 2 legged.  It keeps my go-to reaction from being gunfire but I'd hate to spray that crap even at a dog about to bite.  I can see how hosing down an area with it would tend to make the inmates a little tenser.  

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seanjo

They should carry big ****ing sticks and big ****ing guns.

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Farmer77
3 minutes ago, seanjo said:

They should carry big ****ing sticks and big ****ing guns.

The problem with that is if something goes wrong then the bad guys have big ****ing sticks and big ****ing guns. Most (many?) CO's are trained to eat pepper spray and keep functioning (read sprayed in the face and then screamed at to do stuff repeatedly until you get it right) plus they get the incidental exposure any time its used so there is something of a tolerance built up making it much less of a threat.

 

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seanjo
9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The problem with that is if something goes wrong then the bad guys have big ****ing sticks and big ****ing guns. Most (many?) CO's are trained to eat pepper spray and keep functioning (read sprayed in the face and then screamed at to do stuff repeatedly until you get it right) plus they get the incidental exposure any time its used so there is something of a tolerance built up making it much less of a threat.

 

Then you bring in people with bigger sticks and bigger guns.

 

Appeasement doesn't work.

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Farmer77
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Then you bring in people with bigger sticks and bigger guns.

Appeasement doesn't work.

Here's the deal in prisons which I dont think most folks fully grasp. The administration which runs the prison only does so with the consent of the prisoners. As a CO you are outnumbered by a factor of 50-1 and history has proven that aggressive strong arm tactics alone actually dont work because if you push the population too hard and too far they will snap and take control.

Of course that control is always eventually regained but at a cost of hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars and the lives and well being of the officers and medical staff working in the prison as well as that of inmates who arent involved in the riot.

Its a delicate balancing act which takes into account finances,  the wellbeing of the citizens where the prison is located, the inmates themsleves and the staff.

Edited by Farmer77
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The Caspian Hare
54 minutes ago, seanjo said:

They should carry big ****ing sticks and big ****ing guns.

Guns in a prison? No way. Not away from the perimeter. Things go south and then the prisoners are armed.

I can tell you there won't be guns in a US prison these days unless there's a major incident and they belong to the SWAT team that's going in to retake the prison.

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aztek

yea whatever guards carry will be taken when shtf. most inmates already in much better shape than guards, and they outnumber guards.

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skliss
On 10/9/2018 at 12:12 PM, and then said:

Five POUND cans?  I carry a little 5-ounce sprayer on my vest when I walk just in case I meet a coyote- 4 OR 2 legged.  It keeps my go-to reaction from being gunfire but I'd hate to spray that crap even at a dog about to bite.  I can see how hosing down an area with it would tend to make the inmates a little tenser.  

Always remember to practice with it at least once. Fumbling around trying to figure out how it works in a high adrenaline situation can cost time and safety.

PS practice ouside...lol

Edited by skliss
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Piney
On 10/9/2018 at 1:47 PM, seanjo said:

Then you bring in people with bigger sticks and bigger guns.

Many Bloods are former military with combat experience. After Bush lifted the regs they were sending their "soldiers" off to war for training  and do you think for one minute I couldn't take a weapon from a out of shape CO?

That's why they shot me off the bunk and hosed me down before I saw them coming during a "shake down". "high risk". :yes:

@Farmer77  It's one CO per 40 inmates in Southwoods and the lunatics really run the asylum there....

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Captain Risky
On 10/10/2018 at 9:06 PM, aztek said:

yea whatever guards carry will be taken when shtf. most inmates already in much better shape than guards, and they outnumber guards.

Well maybe the penalty for bad behaviour should be pepper steak instead of pepper spray...they’ll get fat and their arteries will clog... that way they’ll be constantly outta shape and easily slapped around by the guards?

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aztek
13 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Well maybe the penalty for bad behaviour should be pepper steak instead of pepper spray...they’ll get fat and their arteries will clog... that way they’ll be constantly outta shape and easily slapped around by the guards?

lol, yes excellent idea ..... for a fiction movie

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Captain Risky
12 hours ago, aztek said:

lol, yes excellent idea ..... for a fiction movie

no, not fiction, but for real. think about it... we all know that prisons are more or less centres of higher criminal learning. why limit calories and introduce exercise when all you're doing is making better and stronger criminals. a high calorie diet would be ideal in slowing down and making the prison population fat and lethargic. something that would carry on after they're released. i mean how hard would it be to to escape police pursuit if you're outta shape and fat? and besides the police, can get some payback and call them porkers, for a change... 

Edited by Captain Risky
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Farmer77
1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

no, not fiction, but for real. think about it... we all know that prisons are more or less centres of higher criminal learning. why limit calories and introduce exercise when all you're doing is making better and stronger criminals. a high calorie diet would be ideal in slowing down and making the prison population fat and lethargic. something that would carry on after they're released. i mean how hard would it be to to escape police pursuit if you're outta shape and fat? and besides the police, can get some payback and call them porkers, for a change... 

Actually that is done here in the US. The focus is on high carb, low protein diets to keep them lethargic and keep their body in almost kind of a state of catabolysis so they dont build too much muscle.

 

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aztek
Just now, Captain Risky said:

no, not fiction, but for real. think about it..

lmao, sure, for real, lol

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Captain Risky
19 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Actually that is done here in the US. The focus is on high carb, low protein diets to keep them lethargic and keep their body in almost kind of a state of catabolysis so they dont build too much muscle.

 

I’m glad they’re doing it. They should be over feed and forced to learn a trade of education. and release should be subject to not just serving time but their ability to re-intergrate. 

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aztek
Just now, Captain Risky said:

I’m glad they’re doing it.

except they do not,  it is a lie. google " us prison gym" ad see yourself how  malnourished and weak inmates are.

let me help you with google search

https://www.google.com/search?q=us+prison+gym&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEi-6SnJDeAhWhneAKHQdLD6YQ_AUIDigB&biw=1366&bih=654

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Captain Risky
9 hours ago, aztek said:

except they do not,  it is a lie. google " us prison gym" ad see yourself how  malnourished and weak inmates are.

let me help you with google search

https://www.google.com/search?q=us+prison+gym&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjEi-6SnJDeAhWhneAKHQdLD6YQ_AUIDigB&biw=1366&bih=654

Good!

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