Republicans may be about to steal an election

[Farmer77]

8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I think the flaw in this argument, that minorities are more poor and therefore more susceptible to having difficulty voting due to these laws, is that looking at sheer numbers most of the people living under poverty in the USA are white.  More white people on food stamps, more white people on welfare, more white people on unemployment benefits.

But its not a mental exercise. We know for a fact that between 2013 and 2016 that law disproportionally affected black voters, the state was sued and settled agreeing to stop the practice in 2017

Here is the lawsuit  that the state settled over it

 

Quote

Under the terms of the settlement agreement, the Secretary of State agreed to implement reforms to help ensure that eligible Georgians will no longer be denied the right to register and vote as a result of data entry errors, typos and other database matching issues that do not bear upon the applicant’s eligibility to vote. Some of the reforms agreed to by the Secretary of State pursuant to the terms of the settlement include:

• Georgia will no longer automatically cancel voter registration applications where the information on the application fails to exactly match the applicant’s data on the Georgia Department of Drivers Services (DDS) or Social Security Administration (SSA) databases;
• If the data on a voter registration application fails to exactly match data on the DDS or SSA databases, applicants will be added to the rolls as “pending,” with no deadline to correct the mismatch;
• Such registrants will be able to present their Georgia driver’s license, State ID card or other forms of appropriate ID at the polling place and be able to cast a ballot;
• In cases where the applicant is a U.S. citizen, but the DDS database contains an error or out of date information showing the applicant is not a citizen, those individuals will be able to show proof of their citizenship –  up to and including on Election Day –  to complete the registration process and cast a ballot.
• The full details are set forth in the attached Settlement Agreement.

 

Voting Advocates Announce a Settlement of “Exact Match” Lawsuit in Georgia

 

Lawsuit: 'Exact Match' System Negatively Impacts Georgia's Minority Voters

 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Farmer77

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

 

The argument is that these laws affect poor people unfairly and that minorities are poor.  That argument is flawed as per my post.

[+OverSword]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

But its not a mental exercise. We know for a fact that between 2013 and 2016 that law disproportionally affected black voters, the state was sued

Here is the lawsuit from 2016 that the state settled over itVoting Advocates Announce a Settlement of “Exact Match” Lawsuit in Georgia

 

Lawsuit: 'Exact Match' System Negatively Impacts Georgia's Minority Voters

 

 

Mkay, so if you want to vote then you need to be responsible enough with your personal life to make sure your address matches your ID?  That actually sounds reasonable to me.  We need to know your living in the district that you vote in don't we?  That's their fault not the states.

Edited October 12, 2018 by OverSword

[Farmer77]

Just now, OverSword said:

Mkay, so if you want to vote then you need to be responsible enough with your personal life to make sure your address matches your ID?  That actually sounds reasonable to me.  We need to know your living in the district that you vote in don't we?

I would agree with you initially but once the evidence shows that a law is disenfranchising a certain population it needs to be fixed to best serve the entire population.

Not that im quite there but in this case in particular I think you could forgive folks for being mildly conspiratorial minded over the issue of a Secretary of State who is running for office purging black voters from the voting rolls when his opponent is black.

 

[Dark_Grey]

6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I would agree with you initially but once the evidence shows that a law is disenfranchising a certain population it needs to be fixed to best serve the entire population.

Not that im quite there but in this case in particular I think you could forgive folks for being mildly conspiratorial minded over the issue of a Secretary of State who is running for office purging black voters from the voting rolls when his opponent is black.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I wonder what percentage of black voters actually vote? The over all voter count for the country is already painfully low.

[+OverSword]

14 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

once the evidence shows that a law is disenfranchising a certain population it needs to be fixed to best serve the entire population.

Make it the law that you have to update your ID to match your address?  There you go problem solved.  How informed should we assume a voter is if they can't even tell the post office where to send their bills?  Part of being free is being responsible. 

See, you're actually being condescending.

Edited October 12, 2018 by OverSword

[Farmer77]

5 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

I don't have a dog in this fight but I wonder what percentage of black voters actually vote? The over all voter count for the country is already painfully low.

That is a good question. It would be very interesting to juxtapose the historic numbers against the turnout in '18 and '20. I think the numbers could explode this time around.

[RavenHawk]

8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I would agree with you initially but once the evidence shows that a law is disenfranchising a certain population it needs to be fixed to best serve the entire population.

If the law requires individual responsibility then no change in a law will un-disenfranchise them.

 

Not that im quite there but in this case in particular I think you could forgive folks for being mildly conspiratorial minded over the issue of a Secretary of State who is running for office purging black voters from the voting rolls when his opponent is black.

And it’s not conspiratorial to have a black dredging up voters from the plantation to get them registered to vote against themselves and you wonder why they are disenfranchised!  The thing is, is that after this vote, these people will not vote again for years until the next Progressive herds a new batch to get registered.  If there were no purging of the rolls, these same people would probably be on the books multiple times.

[Farmer77]

Just now, OverSword said:

Make it the law that you have to update your ID to match your address?  There you go problem solved.  How informed should we assume a voter is if they can't even tell the post office where to send their bills?  Part of being free is being responsible. 

We're talking about typos as small as a single digit. I get bills sent to me all the time with typos.

 

[Farmer77]

Just now, RavenHawk said:

And it’s not conspiratorial to have a black dredging up voters from the plantation to get them registered to vote against themselves and you wonder why they are disenfranchised!  The thing is, is that after this vote, these people will not vote again for years until the next Progressive herds a new batch to get registered.  If there were no purging of the rolls, these same people would probably be on the books multiple times.

Everything you just said is conspiratorial.

[+OverSword]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

Everything you just said is conspiratorial.

Remember how Google picked up and drove members of a certain minority group to vote?  It backfired on them a bit, but they did it.

[RavenHawk]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Everything you just said is conspiratorial.

Of course it is…

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Remember how Google picked up and drove members of a certain minority group to vote?  It backfired on them a bit, but they did it.

Yeah i never understood the problem with that. Encouraging different groups to vote has been a thing since I was a kid with Rock the Vote.

[RavenHawk]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah i never understood the problem with that. Encouraging different groups to vote has been a thing since I was a kid with Rock the Vote.

No, there’s nothing wrong with that.  It’s just unethical to rush people to be registered and then told who to vote for.  If you are doing a last-minute push to register people, it’s not because you are civically minded.  It is because you are behind in the polls and are trying to get elected and the people being registered are not capable of weighing all the issues and being informed.  Their ignorance is being exploited.  They basically end up raped and become disenfranchised.

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah i never understood the problem with that. Encouraging different groups to vote has been a thing since I was a kid with Rock the Vote.

No  problem with it, just pointing out thatyou just said that Ravenhawks post which (in offensive vernacular) described encouraging minorities to vote, conspiratorial.

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

If you are doing a last-minute push to register people, it’s not because you are civically minded.  I

Who cares about the intent though. The end result is more people voting and thats a good thing. 

If Google had run a campaign to get the mullet crowd to vote I have a hard time seeing you have the same issue.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Farmer77

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

No  problem with it, just pointing out thatyou just said that Ravenhawks post which (in offensive vernacular) described encouraging minorities to vote, conspiratorial.

Comeon we both know he wasnt talking about ads on google.

 

[Big Jim]

Any law is just words on paper.  If one demographic chooses to comply and another doesn't, how can that be the law's fault?  There is no racial test when applying for ID, so there can be no unequal access to functions requiring one.  As for discriminating against the poor, that is just plain hogwash.  I've been well employed and I've been poor and I can tell you that while the gainfully employed carry their ID in their wallets, the poor carry theirs in a binder or briefcase.  No one needs more ID than a poor person and they always manage to have it.  It doesn't keep them from applying for the vast number of services available so there's no way it should keep them from voting.

[+OverSword]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

Comeon we both know he wasnt talking about ads on google.

 

But regardless it's done isn't it?

[Farmer77]

Just now, OverSword said:

But regardless it's done isn't it?

Its done is a far cry from it happened in this scenario. It is conspiratorial to place that template over every single district in the nation.

[RoofGardener]

3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

We're talking about typos keeping folks from voting not voter ID laws. Even that on the surface can be justified, what cant be justified however is seeing that the direct result of a law caused the disproportionate disenfranchisement of a portion of society and not finding a way to make it work for everyone.

The law went away after the state settled a lawsuit over it and then it was snuck back in by the GOP buried under other legislation. To me it seems there was clear intent there. 

No, absolutely NOT. 

The law itself is colour-blind. It just sets the same bar for EVERYBODY. 

If black people in Georgia can't be bothered to register to vote properly, or get someone to assist them, then that is THEIR problem, not a problem with the law. It WOULD be useful to know WHY 70% of the black registrations are on hold. It would be useful to know if those registration attempts where actually fraudulent, rather than being the result of some hypothetical hyphenation error ! 

[Farmer77]

Just now, RoofGardener said:

. It WOULD be useful to know WHY 70% of the black registrations are on hold. It would be useful to know if those registration attempts where actually fraudulent, rather than being the result of some hypothetical hyphenation error ! 

Hey if youre gonna go there itd also be nice to know if theyre on hold because the white Secretary of State is the GOP candidate going against a black democrat candidate.

Quote

If black people in Georgia can't be bothered to register to vote properly, or get someone to assist them, then that is THEIR problem, not a problem with the law

Or maybe something else is going on ? (see above)

[+OverSword]

8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its done is a far cry from it happened in this scenario. It is conspiratorial to place that template over every single district in the nation.

I don't know what you're talking about.  The states individually decide their voting laws.  In my state it's done by mail in ballot.

[RavenHawk]

4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Who cares about the intent though. The end result is more people voting and thats a good thing.

Not by a long shot!  Voting is personal to the individual.  It is for them, not for the candidate that rushes them to get registered.  It is the duty for the individual to be capable of weighing the issues.  Usually, the reason they have not registered yet is that they never really cared about taking their responsibility serious and now you expect them to cast a legitimate vote in a month or so?  That marginalizes the whole reason to vote.  No, that is not a good thing.

 

If Google had run a campaign to get the mullet crowd to vote I have a hard time seeing you have the same issue.

There is so much wrong with that example that I wouldn’t even be able to give a coherent answer.  With just that statement, I could answer yes and no.

[+OverSword]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Hey if youre gonna go there itd also be nice to know if theyre on hold because the white Secretary of State is the GOP candidate going against a black democrat candidate.

Now that's a conspiracy theory   Good one man!