Republicans may be about to steal an election

[Agent0range]

5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

So what does this tell us about "minorities", and their ability to fill out forms ? 

That mistakes happen, and can happen on the filling out of a form, or the input by the government employee.  Mistakes happen.  Much like the space before your question mark.  But, hey, we shouldn't be judging you on your typo.

[RoofGardener]

5 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

That mistakes happen, and can happen on the filling out of a form, or the input by the government employee.  Mistakes happen.  Much like the space before your question mark.  But, hey, we shouldn't be judging you on your typo.

Ummm.. true. Be we are being told in this thread that minorities are more prone to such mistakes ? 

[Agent0range]

16 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Ummm.. true. Be we are being told in this thread that minorities are more prone to such mistakes ? 

That's not what's being said at all.  What name is a worker more likely to make a typo when entering?  Chris Long, or Kamu Grugier-Hill?

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

That's not what's being said at all.  What name is a worker more likely to make a typo when entering?  Chris Long, or Kamu Grugier-Hill?

OK... I'm confused. What exactly are you saying ? That Kamu is more likely to make a typo ? 

If so.. who's fault is that ? Society ? Or Kamu ? 

[Gromdor]

Hah, now this: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/georgias-republican-secretary-of-state-alleges-state-democratic-party-hacked-registration/ar-BBPjW0F?li=BBnb7Kz

He really should have recused himself when running for Governor.  If there isn't any merit to his claims, he himself could end up in a lot of legal trouble for corruption.

[RavenHawk]

21 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Do people even think about ideas and discuss positions anymore or is the total discussion centered around party identities and fear?  A conservative did it, must be good, a liberal did it, must be bad.  

Your view is a bit off.  Progressives will never talk about real ideas and issues.  It’s all identity politics.  Find some label you can attach to your opponent that will stick (doesn’t have to be bad or good – just get people talking about it) and that deflects from the issue.  And about this fear thing, it is another ploy to not discuss positions, because Progs don’t have positions they can defend. 

 

There is nothing wrong with fear.  If you have a home at the base of a hill and there is a huge boulder that precariously sits above it.  You will have fear.  That’s normal.  Now what do you do with that fear?  Do you ignore it and hope nothing happens?  Do you run away?  Or does that fear turn into vigilance and you try to do things that will prevent the boulder from crushing your home?  Progressives want you to ignore the problem or run away from it and then they are viewed as a compassionate hero for saving the day.  I would say that over-all, that is bad. 

 

The circus around Kavanaugh was to raise fear by the Progs to prevent him from being on the Supreme Court.  It failed and now we hear that one accuser has admitted she lied.  The Caravan also generates fear, But Trump uses it so that people are aware (vigilant) of the precariousness of the danger so that we can take action to prevent it from crushing our nation.  And here too, the Progs counter by ignoring of what danger can there be from women and children?  They’ve picked out some minor point and are trying to blow it all out of proportion.  The majority of those that will try to cross are young males with gang ties and there are other caravans stacked up behind them waiting to see if they can punch a hole in our defenses.  If we stand firm, the danger will subside.

 

What is voter identification about?  Is it to prevent fraud?  What is the best way to do that?

Sure it is, but Progs will use it to attack Conservatives instead of dealing with the fraud.  Progs fear that they will lose their voter base.  Voter ID is not perfect.  But instead of working out a solution, they use it to attack Conservatives as racists and blame them for fear mongering.  Progs don’t want a solution because it would get rid of one of their best weapons.  It keeps minorities on the Plantation and Conservatives remain racists.  I’d say they already have the solution they want.  I would rather see one minority disenfranchised for one vote, if it would fix the problem and remove the ability of Progs to use fraud for their benefit.  But I’m sure there are other ways.

 

Is it about  deciding who should vote and how to structure future elections to preserve the party in Power, be it Republican or Democrat?   Isn't that the heart of the issue?

It is but that’s not what we have here.  We have a pretender in our midst.  We haven’t really had a true two party system in a century.  One party had been taken over by an insidious virus bent on complete and total domination.  There are no more real Democrats.  They are now Independents.  Some have become Republicans.  But even in the Republican Party, it is divided among Rino Establishment and Conservative.  The Rinos having been absorbed by this virus.  The Conservatives and Independents are the remnants of the original party system and unfortunately, they don’t fight back as they should.  Until we can rid our system of this virus, we shouldn’t need to worry about future elections.  They’ll already be determined by the ideology of this virus.  Trump appears to be the cure to the virus.

 

We have had a discussion in this country since the beginning on who should vote.  All citizens?  All non-felons?  All citizens with jobs and a stake in the economy?  Only property owners.  Only white male property owners?   Only white male property owners over 40 years old and with a net worth of $750,000 or more?   Only people of sound mind that have taken civics classes in school?  Only people that actually are aware and care what is going on? 

We should return to the days where only landowners on the tax rolls voted.  Yes, at that time, it was mostly White males.  There were a few Blacks, Native Americans, and women too.  Today those minority ratios are higher and in time, they will reach equilibrium.  Don’t expect it to come around overnight.  That’s how the Progs disrupt in order to gain power.  They advocate that because everything isn’t equal that it must be the fault of the racist White Privilege. 

 

The fact is that anything worth having takes time to balance out.  A nation is defined by its wealth; therefore, those that have skin in the game should decide the direction the nation goes.  That is only logical.  This insidious virus robs a nation’s wealth.  The question would be, “who has skin in the game?”  Landowners?  Yes.  Business owners?  Sure.  Renters?  No, unless they own land or a business elsewhere and only rents a place to live.  Are there other divisions?  Doesn’t matter what your attributes are. 

 

The next question is what of those disenfranchised by not having skin in the game?  Instead of thinking that they are some victim being discriminated against, the question to them should be, “what do I need to do to get skin in the game (if that is what they want to do)?”  Some people don’t care to vote.  They don’t care which direction the nation goes and will agree to any direction as long as they get something.  This is the danger of Democracy.  And this should be taken into consideration when determining who can vote.  Voting is a responsibility and those that are only in this to get something and not give something, reneges on that responsibility.

 

We can make it as open or as restrictive as we choose, and that is what we are really talking about.   It is not about immigrants or tariffs or some ridiculous fear-mongering.  It is about how  Americans feel about other Americans.  It is about how flat or how stratified our society is currently and where we want it to go.

You can make something too open such that it dilutes the meaning.  When you have too many people voting that only want something, it deflects the course of the nation and those with skin in the game that wants a better future, gets their vote nullified.  And the nation flounders.  Those that take the responsibility to improve their lot tend to give more.  That is the ultimate outcome of the Invisible hand and the meaning behind Life, Liberty, And the Pursuit of Happiness.  Socialism robs people of this.  Instead of saying “I want to be successful”, it affects the psyche and gets people to believe “I can't have that”.  Instead of worrying about voting and equal rights, we should be working on getting people to believe in themselves, then the voting and equal rights will take care of themselves.

[RavenHawk]

4 hours ago, Agent0range said:

That's not what's being said at all.  What name is a worker more likely to make a typo when entering?  Chris Long, or Kamu Grugier-Hill?

Yes that is a problem.  But it’s more to do with administrative processes than discrimination.  These processes can be improved.  Start off in a voluntary program that allows people to login to a system and confirm their voter registration on an annual basis.  If they don’t do it once within a 4 year period, then purge their name from the rolls.  If some issue occurs then they will have to personally visit the registrar.  Voting is a responsibility.  Responsibility requires active participation.

[RavenHawk]

It’s the Bradley Effect!  That’s why Democrats thought Hilary was going to win in 2016 and I think that the same thing is happening now.  If Republicans hang on to both houses and make more headway in the Governors and state legislatives races, it won’t be because the Republicans have stolen the election in Georgia or anywhere else, it’ll be that the Progs are out of touch with the people.

[skliss]

3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

OK... I'm confused. What exactly are you saying ? That Kamu is more likely to make a typo ? 

If so.. who's fault is that ? Society ? Or Kamu ? 

Actually it's slightly racist to assume they have names like "Kamu".  Look at  rappers Chris Brown, Curtis Jackson (50 cent), Calvin Broadus, Jr. (Snoop dog), Trevor Smith (Busta Rhyme), Andre Young (Dr Dre), Jonathan Smith (Lil Jon), you get the point.

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, skliss said:

Actually it's slightly racist to assume they have names like "Kamu".  Look at  rappers Chris Brown, Curtis Jackson (50 cent), Calvin Broadus, Jr. (Snoop dog), Trevor Smith (Busta Rhyme), Andre Young (Dr Dre), Jonathan Smith (Lil Jon), you get the point.

Good point.

We all know how to spell and input our names.   I have a Polish heritage and my last name looks like a row on a keyboard ending in "ski".  

[RavenHawk]

23 minutes ago, Myles said:

Good point.

We all know how to spell and input our names.   I have a Polish heritage and my last name looks like a row on a keyboard ending in "ski".  

My wife is of Polish heritage too, but her maiden name has Norwegian origins but looks German.  It has a “j” in it.  I use it when I go out to eat and they take your name to call when it’s ready.  That “j” is sometimes a “z” and here in the Southwest, it can also be an “h”.  So when I see the person on the mic trying to pronounce the name, I know it’s for me… 

[skliss]

My maiden name is a highly unusual Irish last name. People either spell it wrong or say it wrong.

[Agent0range]

25 minutes ago, skliss said:

My maiden name is a highly unusual Irish last name. People either spell it wrong or say it wrong.

And if a state employee enters your highly unusual name wrong in to a database, should you be stripped of your right to vote?

[RavenHawk]

15 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

And if a state employee enters your highly unusual name wrong in to a database, should you be stripped of your right to vote?

Actually yes.  It is your responsibility to assure that your information is correct.  There needs to be better administrative procedures in place to make this an easier process.  After you register, you should have the ability to check your information on line within two weeks of registering.  It would help to not wait until the last minute to register.  There are so many things that can be done to make sure it is all correct.

[Agent0range]

1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

Actually yes.  It is your responsibility to assure that your information is correct.  There needs to be better administrative procedures in place to make this an easier process.  After you register, you should have the ability to check your information on line within two weeks of registering.  It would help to not wait until the last minute to register.  There are so many things that can be done to make sure it is all correct.

BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT ABILITY.  That's the whole point!  You can throw around your red herring about what you think should happen, but that's not the way it is right now.  

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Your view is a bit off.  Progressives will never talk about real ideas and issues.  It’s all identity politics. 

You are again defining the position of another group.  What about you?  Do conservatives ever talk about real issues or do you deal only in identity politics?

Fear?  Do you quake in your bed at the bottom of the hill and worry about the boulder rolling down in your sleep?  Is that what a conservative does?

A progressive doesn't go to sleep in fear and powerlessness.  He goes out finds an engineer and a geologist and fixes the problem. .   Problems can be solved if they are analyzed and confronted.  Fear does not aid in problem solving.

[ExpandMyMind]

Quote

In perhaps the most outrageous example of election administration partisanship in the modern era, Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp, who is running for governor while simultaneously in charge of the state’s elections, has accused the Democratic Party without evidence of hacking into the state’s voter database. He plastered a headline about it on the Secretary of State’s website, which thousands of voters use to get information about voting on election day.

Slate

Wow. That's one serious abuse of power. 

[skliss]

2 hours ago, Agent0range said:

And if a state employee enters your highly unusual name wrong in to a database, should you be stripped of your right to vote?

I would have corrected it immediately. Not sure why it would take me 2 years or 4 years to notice that my ID is incorrect.

[Agent0range]

4 minutes ago, skliss said:

I would have corrected it immediately. Not sure why it would take me 2 years or 4 years to notice that my ID is incorrect.

That statement makes me think you have no idea of the issue at hand.  It's your ID NOT matching voter database input.  Let's say you are married, and your ID says Mary Wilson-Smith, because you took a hyphenated last name.  If the voter database was inputted as Mary Wilson Smith with no hyphen, you can't vote.  Well, you can vote, and the state says they will sort it out later.  Point being, you are considered an illegal voter because there is not an exact match between your ID and the database input.

[skliss]

12 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

That statement makes me think you have no idea of the issue at hand.  It's your ID NOT matching voter database input.  Let's say you are married, and your ID says Mary Wilson-Smith, because you took a hyphenated last name.  If the voter database was inputted as Mary Wilson Smith with no hyphen, you can't vote.  Well, you can vote, and the state says they will sort it out later.  Point being, you are considered an illegal voter because there is not an exact match between your ID and the database input.

Then I would say "Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get it corrected as soon as possible. " and then I'd vote and sort it out later. 

[skliss]

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

He goes out finds an engineer and a geologist and fixes the problem. .   Problems can be solved if they are analyzed and confronted.  Fear does not aid in problem solving.

Anybody would...to say a progressive would find a solution while a conservative cowers in fear is ridiculous. I'm sure they would both come up with ideas to fix whatever situation they just might not match.

[Agent0range]

54 minutes ago, skliss said:

Then I would say "Thanks for pointing that out, I'll get it corrected as soon as possible. " and then I'd vote and sort it out later. 

Again, you don't understand the issue.  The person running for governor is in charge of getting it sorted out later.  You can't always trust people to do the right thing.  Case in point.  I received a letter from the Pennsylvania Voter Commission telling me to vote, and saying that I have not voted in Pennsylvania.  My wife received a letter from our county saying she has been registered to vote since 2010 (when we moved here) and has yet to vote.  We both voted.  We voted in our tiny town, using paper ballots.  I voted in the general election in 2016 (I was out of the country for the other elections) and she has voted in all elections since 2010. Yet, in our deep red corner of Pennsylvania, according to the state, we have not voted.  So you can say "thanks for pointing that out" and keep on rolling, but I, just yesterday lodged a complaint with the PA District Attorney's Office.  I will not keep it moving and sort it out later.  I want answers as to why my constitutional rights are being violated.

[skliss]

1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

Again, you don't understand the issue.  The person running for governor is in charge of getting it sorted out later.  You can't always trust people to do the right thing.  Case in point.  I received a letter from the Pennsylvania Voter Commission telling me to vote, and saying that I have not voted in Pennsylvania.  My wife received a letter from our county saying she has been registered to vote since 2010 (when we moved here) and has yet to vote.  We both voted.  We voted in our tiny town, using paper ballots.  I voted in the general election in 2016 (I was out of the country for the other elections) and she has voted in all elections since 2010. Yet, in our deep red corner of Pennsylvania, according to the state, we have not voted.  So you can say "thanks for pointing that out" and keep on rolling, but I, just yesterday lodged a complaint with the PA District Attorney's Office.  I will not keep it moving and sort it out later.  I want answers as to why my constitutional rights are being violated.

And I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe because my son works at the BMV and I know how easily these issues can be resolved. 

On a different but yet similar note....he is having major issues with these new federal ID/drivers license thingies they are requiring. Here is a huge tip....Save Your Paperwork! He has people coming in that didn't keep birth certificates or marriage licenses.(who doesn't keep this stuff?) He said some older women have been married several times don't have their licenses and they can't give them an ID. Every time you changed your name it must be recorded so even if you married 40 years ago and two more times since then you need all of them to prove the direct line your name has taken. And people are angry!

PS I was disgusted when Ed Rendell held up the military ballots for PA so my nephew couldn't vote while he was serving in Iraq because Rendell was afraid PA would go for Bush...it was a cowardly act.

Edited November 5, 2018 by skliss
Added

[RavenHawk]

16 hours ago, Agent0range said:

BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT ABILITY.  That's the whole point!  You can throw around your red herring about what you think should happen, but that's not the way it is right now.  

Actually, you do have that ability.  It just takes an act of Congress to correct it.  We know *HOW* it is now.  I’m proposing solutions instead of blaming somebody or turning it into race bating.  This is an administrative snafu and nothing to do with discrimination.  What happens when someone is needing some public service and their ID is wrong?  They get it fixed.  When it’s something they want, something like a missing hyphen isn’t going to stop them.

[RavenHawk]

17 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

You are again defining the position of another group.

And there’s something wrong with that?  I’m just taking their own definition from their own book.

 

What about you?  Do conservatives ever talk about real issues or do you deal only in identity politics?

No doubt I’ll delve into identity politics like everyone else but that’s not the only thing I have.  I talk about real issues all the time.  When identity politics is all you have, that’s all you talk about.  For two years, Progs attack people on identity politics, especially the President, despite all the good things he’s done for this nation.  Progs are so fixated on identity politics, they can’t see anything else.

 

Fear?  Do you quake in your bed at the bottom of the hill and worry about the boulder rolling down in your sleep?  Is that what a conservative does?

Absolutely!  Fear is a good motivator to find solutions to the problem.  Conservatives are keen on putting feasible solutions into action.  Of course, the easiest solution would be to move.

 

A progressive doesn't go to sleep in fear and powerlessness.  He goes out finds an engineer and a geologist and fixes the problem. .   

They blow the problem all out of proportion.  They’ll throw exorbitant amounts of money at the problem by removing the hill, then raise everyone else’s taxes.

 

Problems can be solved if they are analyzed and confronted.  Fear does not aid in problem solving.

Precisely and fear is a major component.  Fear is natural, normal.  It all depends on how you react to it and use it.  Without knowing fear, you cannot understand the problem.  Progs are afraid of fear.