No peace in Palestine ?

[+and-then]

On 10/15/2018 at 4:17 PM, Black Red Devil said:

Is it a prophecy where Jews eventually become Christians or the other way around? 

Actually, it isn't that at all.  It is a belief that the descendants of Israel have an everlasting RIGHT to live in the land of their ancestors, promised irrevocably to them by the same God we worship.  Christian Evangelicals believe that Jews will eventually recognize Christ as their Messiah but the two are not mutually dependent.  To those who want to pigeon-hole groups for ease of smearing them, it may seem a small difference but a reasonable person will see the difference for what it is.  

[Black Red Devil]

29 minutes ago, and then said:

Actually, it isn't that at all.  It is a belief that the descendants of Israel have an everlasting RIGHT to live in the land of their ancestors, promised irrevocably to them by the same God we worship.  Christian Evangelicals believe that Jews will eventually recognize Christ as their Messiah but the two are not mutually dependent.  To those who want to pigeon-hole groups for ease of smearing them, it may seem a small difference but a reasonable person will see the difference for what it is.  

Jews recognising Christ as the Messiah means believing his stories written in the New Testament.  Not much difference between the two after that anymore.

[+and-then]

38 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Not much difference between the two after that anymore.

You speak of the future, I of the present and in the present what I've said is the more accurate.  That's my only point.  Until they believe, Christian Zionists and Evangelicals are NOT the in the same category.  If you choose to blend them then that is your doing and does not render them so.

[Helen of Annoy]

11 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

 

I’m pretty sure that no Palestinian has ever come close to suffering the way Holocaust survivors had.

 

White. Phosphorus. 

Children burnt with white phosphorus. The more you hide or attempt excusing that, the more I'm disgusted with the politics that stands behind it. 

 

Also, thank god I started reading from the back of your post so I didn't bother with the rest. 

Leave me alone now, I have no desire to talk to you. 

[RavenHawk]

6 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Children burnt with white phosphorus. The more you hide or attempt excusing that, the more I'm disgusted with the politics that stands behind it.

You think that there are at least 6 million Palestinian children?  I don’t think so.  WP is very painful but we’re talking about very few in number compared to the misery of millions of Jews being exterminated.  WP's primary purpose is indirect crowd control but if one gets too close to a spent shell, there is a chance of getting burned.  Those that get burned are either from accidental exposure or they are being used to retrieve shell fragments.  On the other hand, it was with malice intent that Jews were exposed to Zyklon-B.  If you want to be disgusted then be disgusted with the Palestinians.  They love martyrdom more than their children.  More Palestinian children get hurt and killed by Hamas Qassam rockets that misfire during launch which is usually on school or hospital grounds.  If you’ve ever fired a bottle rocket, ever-once-in-a-while they go squirrelly and you’re trying to dodge them.

 

Leave me alone now, I have no desire to talk to you. 

Anytime you post something, there will always be a chance that I will respond.  If you don’t like that then you are welcome to leave.  And I will respond any time I damn well feel like it.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 10/31/2018 at 6:56 PM, and then said:

Actually, it isn't that at all.  It is a belief that the descendants of Israel have an everlasting RIGHT to live in the land of their ancestors, promised irrevocably to them by the same God we worship.  Christian Evangelicals believe that Jews will eventually recognize Christ as their Messiah but the two are not mutually dependent.  To those who want to pigeon-hole groups for ease of smearing them, it may seem a small difference but a reasonable person will see the difference for what it is.  

Seriously, and then, do you really think that Euro Jews have ancestors from Israel?

The only Jews in the world at the time of the House of Judah's demise were the Sephardi, in Judah, of course.

Jews from Europe have Sephardi blood?? I seriously doubt that. How much? about the amount of Cherokee blood that Sen. Liz Warren has? LOL

 

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Seriously, and then, do you really think that Euro Jews have ancestors from Israel?

The only Jews in the world at the time of the House of Judah's demise were the Sephardi, in Judah, of course.

Jews from Europe have Sephardi blood?? I seriously doubt that. How much? about the amount of Cherokee blood that Sen. Liz Warren has? LOL

 

Yeah, actually, I do.  Why wouldn't they be?  They literally dispersed into nearly every nation around the world.  Are you speaking about them being illegitimate because they are mixed with other bloodlines or something?  Anyway, that's my belief and you're entitled to your own.  When frickkin' WWIII begins because people all over the world decide those 8 million people CANNOT be left in peace and must be hounded off that land, I guess we'll see if the survivors think it was really an important enough cause to die for.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

2 hours ago, and then said:

Yeah, actually, I do.  Why wouldn't they be?  They literally dispersed into nearly every nation around the world.  Are you speaking about them being illegitimate because they are mixed with other bloodlines or something?  Anyway, that's my belief and you're entitled to your own.  When frickkin' WWIII begins because people all over the world decide those 8 million people CANNOT be left in peace and must be hounded off that land, I guess we'll see if the survivors think it was really an important enough cause to die for.

Well, Sephardi Jews are Ethiopian black, Ashkenazi Jews are quite white. So.....

Anyway, And I'm pretty sure the focal  point of German land grabbing had more to do with than Jews. MO.

[+and-then]

6 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, Sephardi Jews are Ethiopian black, Ashkenazi Jews are quite white. So.....

Anyway, And I'm pretty sure the focal  point of German land grabbing had more to do with than Jews. MO.

Okay, let's run with your belief.  Post-WWII, Zionism is in full swing.  Jews from Europe and all over the M.E. flock to the newly created state.  Most of the Jews  in all those cases had been dispossessed of their land.  They were "given" a postage-stamp sized piece of land that was mostly barren.  No oil.  No gas. Nothing but their will to succeed and live in peace.  That first generation bled for the land and every generation since has done so.  Can you tell me why a group of supposedly uber-wealthy Jews would want to do that?  The idea that these people do not have an enduring cultural bond to that land is unsupportable.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

7 hours ago, and then said:

Okay, let's run with your belief.  Post-WWII, Zionism is in full swing.  Jews from Europe and all over the M.E. flock to the newly created state.  Most of the Jews  in all those cases had been dispossessed of their land.  They were "given" a postage-stamp sized piece of land that was mostly barren.  No oil.  No gas. Nothing but their will to succeed and live in peace.  That first generation bled for the land and every generation since has done so.  Can you tell me why a group of supposedly uber-wealthy Jews would want to do that?  The idea that these people do not have an enduring cultural bond to that land is unsupportable.

Well, for one, the post WWII Jews being shipped out of England were flocking to Palestine, a land with *inhabitants*. Somebody else's land. You say the land was barren but maybe that is because of how lowly you think of Palestinians. Then,only when enough Euro Jews had arrived to push the indigenous ones out of Palestine, was a there a "newly created state". And you say they want to live in peace??? Didn't look too peaceful to me.

But more to the point. The Euro Jews took the land via some ancestral claim to the land.

I am saying that they had no ancestral claim to the land because their ancestors were not from Ancient Judah, but from Europe.

Two issues: The only land they could claim would be West Bank, the House of Judah. And, their claim of a right to that land would really be based on their praying to God the same way the Judaens did. Hmmm

Very sketchy reasons to kill and steal. not sure God would approve. Christians seem to, but God...? not sure about that!

[SHaYap]

 

Quote

 

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 New International Version (NIV)

⁴ Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵ It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

⁸ Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

 

What Paul needs here is to meet a John ...

~

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, for one, the post WWII Jews being shipped out of England were flocking to Palestine, a land with *inhabitants*. Somebody else's land. You say the land was barren but maybe that is because of how lowly you think of Palestinians. Then,only when enough Euro Jews had arrived to push the indigenous ones out of Palestine, was a there a "newly created state". And you say they want to live in peace??? Didn't look too peaceful to me.

But more to the point. The Euro Jews took the land via some ancestral claim to the land.

I am saying that they had no ancestral claim to the land because their ancestors were not from Ancient Judah, but from Europe.

Two issues: The only land they could claim would be West Bank, the House of Judah. And, their claim of a right to that land would really be based on their praying to God the same way the Judaens did. Hmmm

Very sketchy reasons to kill and steal. not sure God would approve. Christians seem to, but God...? not sure about that!

So how far do you think the world should go to restore the land to the most recent inhabitants?  

[RoofGardener]

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, for one, the post WWII Jews being shipped out of England were flocking to Palestine, a land with *inhabitants*. Somebody else's land. You say the land was barren but maybe that is because of how lowly you think of Palestinians. Then,only when enough Euro Jews had arrived to push the indigenous ones out of Palestine, was a there a "newly created state". And you say they want to live in peace??? Didn't look too peaceful to me.

But more to the point. The Euro Jews took the land via some ancestral claim to the land.

I am saying that they had no ancestral claim to the land because their ancestors were not from Ancient Judah, but from Europe.

Two issues: The only land they could claim would be West Bank, the House of Judah. And, their claim of a right to that land would really be based on their praying to God the same way the Judaens did. Hmmm

Very sketchy reasons to kill and steal. not sure God would approve. Christians seem to, but God...? not sure about that!

They didn't occupy "somebody elses land".. they bought it legitimately from the (absentee) landlords, right up to the point where they called Israel into being. At which point the Arab's revolted against them and declared war. At that point, all bets where off. 

During the 19th and early 20th century the entire Arab Palestinian agricultural system was in chaos, with a ridiculous ownership system that massively dis-incentivised development. It was even more inefficient than the later Soviet systems. Significantly more so. Most Arab land workers where in massive debt, and living under a system that was virtually feudal and kept them in poverty. Arabs where fleeing from the land and migrating to the cities for work. (Much of it provided by Jewish industry). It is this that  probably created the stories of a desolate land with no occupants. 

Your comment about ancestral claims is... odd. Four thousand years ago the Jews only existed in Judea and Israel. There WHERE no European Jews. Or Russian Jews. No Europe or Russia, for that matter Ergo, every jew has ancestors - albeit incredibly distant - from Israel. 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by RoofGardener

[SHaYap]

Let's take a real trip across Palestine and Modern Israel ... with RIck

~

Rick Steves' Europe SS • ES103 Rick Steves' The Holy Land: Israelis and Palestinians Today Rick Steves' Europe Verified • 1.9M views

 

~

* HOPE shall prevail *

~

[RoofGardener]

Imagine the hoo-hah in the USA if PBS aired an episode of Sesame Street in which Big Bird read out a poem describing black people as "Barbaric Monkeys". 

Just IMAGINE it. There would be riots in the streets. The senior management of PBS would be sacked immediately. Big Bird would have to spend the next 3 months regularly reading out a retraction, and special episodes would have to be produced praising black people. There would be world criticism.  

Of course, this would never happen.

Unless you work for Palestinian TV (the Palestinian TV station controlled by the Palestinian Authority), in which case the world would be - and indeed IS - silent. 

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=14951

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Imagine the hoo-hah in the USA if PBS aired an episode of Sesame Street in which Big Bird read out a poem describing black people as "Barbaric Monkeys". 

Just IMAGINE it. There would be riots in the streets. The senior management of PBS would be sacked immediately. Big Bird would have to spend the next 3 months regularly reading out a retraction, and special episodes would have to be produced praising black people. There would be world criticism.  

Of course, this would never happen.

Unless you work for Palestinian TV (the Palestinian TV station controlled by the Palestinian Authority), in which case the world would be - and indeed IS - silent. 

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=14951

Yes, and we know why they are silent.  The saddest aspect of it all is that if pressed, they cannot really explain why it is so important to remove these people from that land AT ANY COST.  Because you know that is where the world is headed.  The forcible attempt will be made and the costs will be staggering.

[SHaYap]

1 minute ago, and then said:

Yes, and we know why they are silent. 

I don't speak for anybody else but for myself personally. I enjoy seeing you and roofie make such bigoted prejudiced fools of yourselves that I am quietly content to see you both continue making an absolute embarrassment of your clueless selves ... I say it now because I know what I say will not stop any of your nonsense, but hey, if your fellow country folks and believers are concurring agreeably, who am I to say anything,

~

7 minutes ago, and then said:

  The saddest aspect of it all is that if pressed, they cannot really explain why it is so important to remove these people from that land AT ANY COST.

Genius ...

~

[+and-then]

On 10/15/2018 at 4:17 PM, Black Red Devil said:

Is it a prophecy where Jews eventually become Christians or the other way around? 

You're honest enough in this statement to admit you aren't SURE what is meant by the term Christian Zionism.  Rather than ridicule it from ignorance why not spend a few minutes learning what it actually means?  Or are such things as facts unnecessary when you are stating your opinions?  Believing that Christion Zionists are wrong is perfectly valid but to do so without truly understanding what they believe is intellectually dishonest, or at least lazy.  I'm a Christian who believes that the descendants of Jacob (Israel) have a perpetual promise to possess all the land from the "river of Egypt to the Euphrates".  BUT, I believe that the complete fulfillment of that promise is contingent on their actions before God.  IOW, it will happen when He allows it, not when Israel's leaders demand it.  I do not give them a pass when they brutalize people but I do recognize their human right to self-defense when they and their children are being attacked.  It all reduces to one point in the end.  Is achieving what you perceive as justice for the Palestinians worth a regional or even global war?  If it is then I commend your strength of commitment to your principles.  

[RoofGardener]

18 hours ago, third_eye said:

I don't speak for anybody else but for myself personally. I enjoy seeing you and roofie make such bigoted prejudiced fools of yourselves that I am quietly content to see you both continue making an absolute embarrassment of your clueless selves ... I say it now because I know what I say will not stop any of your nonsense, but hey, if your fellow country folks and believers are concurring agreeably, who am I to say anything,

~

Genius ...

~

I see you make ZERO comment on the content of the post, and merely throw out an ad-hominem attack ? 

[SHaYap]

Just now, RoofGardener said:

I see you make ZERO comment on the content of the post, and merely throw out an ad-hominem attack ? 

You saw ZERO because that's all you see, my glorious ad-hominem poster boy ...

Carry on roofie dear, you and poofie pops gots all the laffs I need ...

~

[RoofGardener]

34 minutes ago, third_eye said:

You saw ZERO because that's all you see, my glorious ad-hominem poster boy ...

Carry on roofie dear, you and poofie pops gots all the laffs I need ...

~

Are you drunk or something ?

 

[SHaYap]

Just now, RoofGardener said:

Are you drunk or something ?

 

Drunk form laughter ... yes indeed

~

[+and-then]

Meanwhile   http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/255168

This was a bit of a shocker.  I hadn't heard of any factories in Beirut doing precision upgrades on the existing stockpiles.  When the next war between the IDF and the Hizballah comes it is going to be at a horrible cost to Israel but I doubt Hizballah will survive in any meaningful way.  Israel has tried to maintain its place among its Arab neighbors by using the least force possible.  The tipping point was always going to be reached when they were left with no good choices.  We're there.  Iran is in its economic death throes and is lashing out in the only meaningful way possible.  They're employing these expensive Proxies they've built for just such a day.  The Hizballah alone have 150,000 missiles.  Most of the launchers are hidden in civilian neighborhoods and the missile stockpiles are hidden inside homes and infrastructure so that fighting this war will require the IDF to appear to commit war crimes.  The noose is tightening and the temperature is rising.  Those who hate Israel will probably see this as a good thing.  They won't admit it, of course.  The death toll will be staggering.  I don't think the world grasps just how bad this will be.  All the media will treat this war the way they've treated Trump for 2 years but the tens of millions of us who support Israel will know why these things are happening.  

[Truthseeker007]

 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Truthseeker007

[Truthseeker007]