Black Red Devil Posted November 25, 2018 #126 Share Posted November 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, and then said: I've never made the claim of being unbiased in this situation. I support the right of the people of Israel to live in the land. I say it all the time. Also, if I seemed to be implying that you were claiming to be an expert, it wasn't my intention. I WAS calling you out for characterizing me - and Christian Zionism - without really understanding what it is. As I said, disagreeing with the belief is fine but making statements about those who support it without understanding what it is, IMO, is intellectually lazy at best. Perhaps the modern Jews who labored to build the state of Israel did use the Bible to justify actions that might have had other, less pure motives. Human beings - all of us - are like that at times. I also never said that the Jews had a right to mistreat anyone. We just differ drastically on what constitutes mistreatment when both sides are dealing death to each other's citizens. I know that, in fact the contrary is true. My statement you quoted was meant to be sarcastic (probably didn't make it clear enough) intended to mean you can't be unbiased with your religious beliefs. Of course I'll never grasp the concept of what a CZ believes in as much as you do but the Jewish Library seems to match a lot of what you preach. Now if you believe that Jews must embrace the second coming of Christ (when you want it to happen is beside the point) after they gave him the flick the first time, isn't that like expecting them to believe in Christianity? If so, what did I say that was so inaccurate? I'll give you credit for being up front with your beliefs but you do understand nobody forces you to disclose them and you expose yourself to judgements, as long as they're not offensive. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted November 25, 2018 #127 Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Sweeping A Christian Tradition under Islamic Rugs ... ~ Quote ~ Christianity and antisemitism - Wikipedia Christianity and antisemitism deals with the hostility of Christian Churches, Christian groups, and by Christians in general to Judaism and the Jewish people. Christian rhetoric and antipathy towards Jews developed in the early years .... Some Christians continued to adhere to aspects of Jewish law, but they were few in ... Early differences · Church Fathers · Middle Ages · 20th century ~ Christian Persecution of Jews over the Centuries — United States ... https://www.ushmm.org/.../christian-persecution...jews.../christian-persecution-of-jews... The Earliest Christians. The claim of Jesus' followers that their Master was the sole authentic interpreter of Mosaic Law was not unusual. What set his followers ... Summary · Political Changes · European anti-Semitism after ... · The Medieval Era ~ Jews https://www2.kenyon.edu/projects/margin/jew.htm They were, nonetheless, subject to laws created and enforced by Christians. ... Persecution of Jewish communities began with the massacres in the Rhineland ... ~ Christian Persecution of the Jews - Traditional AntiSemitism - Bad ... www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gbf_jews.htm Marriages between Christians and Jews became capital offences. In later centuries the emperors became more strongly Christian, and the laws concerning ... ~ THE PERSECUTION OF THE JEWS IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE (300-438) vlib.iue.it/carrie/texts/carrie_books/seaver/text.html Part II: Christian Persecution of Jews, 19. Conclusion, 84. Index of Abbreviations, 88. References, 89. Select Bibliographies, 95. Index of Theodosian Code Laws ... Part I: Jewish Persecution of Christians: 5 General Index: 99 Part II: Christian Persecution of Jews: 19 Index of Canons I: 98 ~ Edited November 25, 2018 by third_eye wonky formating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted November 25, 2018 #128 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, and then said: Why won't you answer my question? We'll never agree about the right of Jews to live on that land and that's fine. My question is, what level of force do you believe is justifiable to use against Israel to achieve "justice" for the Palestinians? It really is a simple question. Well, #1, I believe the Jews have a right to live on the land. but they do not have the right to push others OFF the land, especially the people that were there before them. How's this for an answer for what type of force - "whatever works". The Mullahs and others might have ideas about objectives and what works but I sure don't know what they are. I know many want Israel destroyed because of the long long history of oppression Israel has meted out. Me...? I just want the Palestinians to be able to go home to a safe and just society. But personally, I don't think that'll ever happen as long as Israel is viable. And that is where the rub is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted November 25, 2018 #129 Share Posted November 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: I just want the Palestinians to be able to go home to a safe and just society. But personally, I don't think that'll ever happen as long as Israel is viable. And that is where the rub is The Key to the properties is still held by the hands of the Palestinians ... Quote ~ Father to son, keys to Palestinian home cherished | Reuters https://www.reuters.com/...palestinians.../father-to-son-keys-to-palestinian-home-cheri... Nov 23, 2007 - The portrait of Hussein Saleh al-Me'ari holding a slim iron key and the ... paint in a tiny room at the Ain al-Hilweh Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon. ... Still Salah holds out hope that four generations of yearning to return to ... ~ Palestinians still keep the hope alive - Khaleej Times https://www.khaleejtimes.com/nation/general/palestinians-still-keep-the-key-of-hope May 14, 2016 - Matar described Palestinians as people who always lived and will always live on hope. Asked whether his family still has the key, Matar ... ~ Palestinian right of return - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return The Palestinian right of return is the political position or principle that Palestinian refugees, both ... Such keys and the Handala are common Palestinian symbols of support for the right of return. ..... in the minds of the refugees the fear that to accept settlement on them will be tantamount to giving up the hope of repatriation.". ~ I spoke to Palestinians who still hold the keys to homes they fled ... https://www.independent.co.uk/.../palestine-keys-return-home-israel-palestinians-a839... Jun 14, 2018 - Keys must always be the symbol of the Palestinian “Nakba” – the ... that his little museum and its keys are a symbol of regret rather than hope. ~ While the tradition is still respected by the Muslims ... Quote ~ Keys to Holy Sepulchre He dates the arrangement back to the time of Saladin, the Muslim conqueror who seized the holy city from the Crusaders in 1187. “Honestly, it's a great honor for a Muslim to hold the key to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which is the most important church in Christendom,” Joudeh, 53, said.Nov 30, 2017 Muslim holds ancient key to Jesus tomb site in Jerusalem | Reuters https://www.reuters.com/.../muslim-holds-ancient-key-to-jesus-tomb-site-in-jerusalem-id... ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 25, 2018 Author #130 Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: Israelis have a right to self defense. What if their needed defense is because they unjustly brutalized people and retaliation ensued? You don't blame immigrant Jews for this? Palestinians never invaded Russia. It was Euro Jews that invaded Palestine. Now, many innocent Palestinians sit miserably in refugee camps because of Euro Jew brutalization of the people and theft of their homes and land. I take your point about brutalization and retaliation. However, can you name ANY civil war that occurred without violence ? You raise an interesting point about palestinians in refugee camps. There have been many dozens of examples around the world since 1948 of where civil strife has created vast numbers of refugees. All of these where resettled, usually with the assistance of the UNHCR, and various other agencies, including direct assistance from European nations and the USA. The refugee camps that came into existence due to these refugees never lasted more than a few years. The "Palestinian" refugee camps, on the other hand, have lasted for over 50 years. And here's the weird thing... about 20 of those camps are in the Palestinian Territories . So Palestinians are in 'refugee' camps WITHIN the State of Palestine.. within their own nation. Why ? The only reason I can think of is that those palestinians are being DELIBERATELY held in the camps, and refused permission to simply integrate into Palestinian society, simply in order to keep a festering sore running. In regards "Euro Jews".. it's worth recalling that about 50% of the modern population of Israel are Jewish refugees - and their descendants - that where evicted en-masse from the Muslim nations of North Africa, (Libya, Tunisia, Egypt etc) and from middle-eastern countries like Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi etc. This happened back in around 1950-ish ? There where a shade under 1 million such refugees... not ALL of whom went to Israel. Are THEY in refugee camps ? 7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: ....The problems that come out of a single state solution does not look good for Jews, of course. They should have thought of that BEFORE their Zionist movement flooded the region.... Again, I can only re-iterate the Jewish Refugee issue from the surrounding muslim countries. 7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: Israelis have a right to self defense. What if their needed defense is because they unjustly brutalized people and retaliation ensued? You don't blame immigrant Jews for this? Palestinians never invaded Russia. It was Euro Jews that invaded Palestine. Now, many innocent Palestinians sit miserably in refugee camps because of Euro Jew brutalization of the people and theft of their homes and land. And you blame the Palestinians for fighting back because it puts Israeli's on defense??? Like Israel has to worry about bottle rockets from Gaza? The problems that come out of a single state solution does not look good for Jews, of course. They should have thought of that BEFORE their Zionist movement flooded the region. I agree with you that the cause for concern in the ME is high, and now that Israel has detailed Iranian plans for 5 nuclear bombs to be made, the stakes are even higher. Nobody ever properly policed Israel the way other countries are policed by the US and others. So the people are taking the only logical option for them, **protect themselves** and use any means available. Yes, and then, the Palestinians have a right to self defense. And in the longer run, if Israel does not change its ways and there is great harm that comes to Israel, they've only themselves to blame. I think that the issue is really that the "Palestinians" don't WANT peaceful co-existence. Or rather... their leaders (the PLO) don't. The 1992 Oslo Accords where a fantastic opportunity to create a viable Palestinian Nation with secure borders and a thriving economy, but Yasser Arafat walked away from them. Indeed, he dishonored them from day 1 of the negotiations. In my opinion, it all comes down to the desire to destroy Israel and reconquer the territories "from the river to the sea". This is politically embodied in the "right to return". The PLO - who are the recognised representatives of the Palestinian people, simply do not WANT co-existence. They want the Jews GONE ! It's worth noting that the letters "PLO" do NOT stand for the "PALESTINIAN Liberation Organisation", as many people assume. They stand for the PALESTINE Liberation Organisation. 7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: ...The problem with Israeli Euro Jews is they can't stand living with anyone else. They hate everything that is NOT JEW. They even hate the Sephardi Jews. Not a good way to have friendly neighbors. .... Oh surely not ? That is an outrageous claim. Can you substantiate it ? Edited November 25, 2018 by RoofGardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted November 25, 2018 #131 Share Posted November 25, 2018 9 hours ago, RoofGardener said: I take your point about brutalization and retaliation. However, can you name ANY civil war that occurred without violence ? You raise an interesting point about palestinians in refugee camps. There have been many dozens of examples around the world since 1948 of where civil strife has created vast numbers of refugees. All of these where resettled, usually with the assistance of the UNHCR, and various other agencies, including direct assistance from European nations and the USA. The refugee camps that came into existence due to these refugees never lasted more than a few years. The "Palestinian" refugee camps, on the other hand, have lasted for over 50 years. And here's the weird thing... about 20 of those camps are in the Palestinian Territories . So Palestinians are in 'refugee' camps WITHIN the State of Palestine.. within their own nation. Why ? The only reason I can think of is that those palestinians are being DELIBERATELY held in the camps, and refused permission to simply integrate into Palestinian society, simply in order to keep a festering sore running. In regards "Euro Jews".. it's worth recalling that about 50% of the modern population of Israel are Jewish refugees - and their descendants - that where evicted en-masse from the Muslim nations of North Africa, (Libya, Tunisia, Egypt etc) and from middle-eastern countries like Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi etc. This happened back in around 1950-ish ? There where a shade under 1 million such refugees... not ALL of whom went to Israel. Are THEY in refugee camps ? Again, I can only re-iterate the Jewish Refugee issue from the surrounding muslim countries. I think that the issue is really that the "Palestinians" don't WANT peaceful co-existence. Or rather... their leaders (the PLO) don't. The 1992 Oslo Accords where a fantastic opportunity to create a viable Palestinian Nation with secure borders and a thriving economy, but Yasser Arafat walked away from them. Indeed, he dishonored them from day 1 of the negotiations. In my opinion, it all comes down to the desire to destroy Israel and reconquer the territories "from the river to the sea". This is politically embodied in the "right to return". The PLO - who are the recognised representatives of the Palestinian people, simply do not WANT co-existence. They want the Jews GONE ! It's worth noting that the letters "PLO" do NOT stand for the "PALESTINIAN Liberation Organisation", as many people assume. They stand for the PALESTINE Liberation Organisation. Oh surely not ? That is an outrageous claim. Can you substantiate it ? I) All civil wars are brutal, no doubt. America lost more lives in their own Civil War than in the War of 1812, the Spanish American War, WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam *combined*. But what needs to be examined is causality. In America's case, the Civil War was to end slavery. And Israel's case...? to rid the soil of those tar tar Muslims and to get free instant housing. The good guys don't always win. II) Your observation of Palestinians being held in refugee camps within Israeli borders I'm in agreement with. What Palestinian wouldn't want to get out of the camp and go back home? 'Taint gonna happen. And it is a festering sore, yes. III) the 1 million Jewish refugees from other ME countries. Are they in refugee camps? certainly not in Israel or maybe anywhere. But it is fair to say that not all evicted Palestinians remained in the ME, too. Some came to America. IV) And your point about PLO (and Pals in general, as well as neighbor countries) want the Jews gone. *Of course* you are correct. Time heals all wounds. Not in this case, the wound is festering all the time, and not just to Palestinians but the neighbor countries who have to support the many refugees they were forced to take in. So every day that goes by, the clock is reset. 50 years...? I'm sure 50 years after the oozing stops, wounds will be healed people will be more tolerant. V) My outrageous claim. I apologize, yes, it was out of hand. Caveat, Roof... there is a reason why some euro Jews refer to non-Jews as "Goy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 25, 2018 #132 Share Posted November 25, 2018 16 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: Well, #1, I believe the Jews have a right to live on the land. but they do not have the right to push others OFF the land, especially the people that were there before them. How's this for an answer for what type of force - "whatever works". The Mullahs and others might have ideas about objectives and what works but I sure don't know what they are. I know many want Israel destroyed because of the long long history of oppression Israel has meted out. Me...? I just want the Palestinians to be able to go home to a safe and just society. But personally, I don't think that'll ever happen as long as Israel is viable. And that is where the rub is Thanks for the honesty. The Palestinians have made it quite clear what their concept will be for "whatever works". The area of the Golan has recently been found to be worth an incredible amount of $. Oil and gas. Russia will not want the competition and the Arabs just want the Jews dead, however it can be accomplished. A match made in hell. So Israel's "time of trouble" IS coming. If you live through it, I wonder if you'll still think it was worth it just to get rid of the Jews and give Palestinians their "justice"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 26, 2018 Author #133 Share Posted November 26, 2018 13 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said: II) Your observation of Palestinians being held in refugee camps within Israeli borders I'm in agreement with. What Palestinian wouldn't want to get out of the camp and go back home? 'Taint gonna happen. And it is a festering sore, yes. Just a quick note; the refugee camps are NOT in Israel's borders. They are in the Palestinian State. Palestinians are holding Palestinians in a refugee camp inside "Palestine". I ASSUME they do this to Palestinians who's parents (or grandparents) fled "Israel" back in 1948 and 1967. They WANT these people to fester in order to highlight their "right of return". They are being used as pawns in a sick political game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Red Devil Posted November 26, 2018 #134 Share Posted November 26, 2018 1 hour ago, RoofGardener said: Just a quick note; the refugee camps are NOT in Israel's borders. They are in the Palestinian State. Palestinians are holding Palestinians in a refugee camp inside "Palestine". I ASSUME they do this to Palestinians who's parents (or grandparents) fled "Israel" back in 1948 and 1967. They WANT these people to fester in order to highlight their "right of return". They are being used as pawns in a sick political game. Palestine? Like a sovereign state with controlled borders, free movement of goods and commerce with other states and movement of people? How ironic that these refugee camps are in 'Palestine' but Israel doesn't recognise a Palestinian State, controls Gaza and occupies the West Bank. Talk about hypocrisy to the extreme! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 26, 2018 Author #135 Share Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said: Palestine? Like a sovereign state with controlled borders, free movement of goods and commerce with other states and movement of people? How ironic that these refugee camps are in 'Palestine' but Israel doesn't recognise a Palestinian State, controls Gaza and occupies the West Bank. Talk about hypocrisy to the extreme! What a confused post ! What has that got to do with the reality of Palestinians being held in refugee camps in the Palestinian Territories ? Why are they in refugee camps, rather than integrating with Palestinian civic society ? Why are they being held in isolation from their fellow Palestinians ? Edited November 26, 2018 by RoofGardener 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Red Devil Posted November 26, 2018 #136 Share Posted November 26, 2018 37 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: What a confused post ! What has that got to do with the reality of Palestinians being held in refugee camps in the Palestinian Territories ? Why are they in refugee camps, rather than integrating with Palestinian civic society ? Why are they being held in isolation from their fellow Palestinians ? I can understand why you're confused which probably explains a lot of your biased views on this subject. Please advise what are these Palestinian territories which a recognised Palestinian Govt has full sovereignty over and is not subject to occupation and control by a foreign state? 1) If these territories are under occupation and controlled by Israel how can you palm the blame off to the Palestinian Govt for what happens within the territory when they have no control over them? 2) If these territories are not occupied and controlled by Israel then you would be correct but then I would like you to explain why the Govt of Israel is placing hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers on these lands which belong to the Palestinians or why they blockade and control the movement of goods and people? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted November 26, 2018 #137 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Its much like Billy Crystal playing Muhammad Ali converting to Judaism and planning on doing Jewish boxing ... ~ Billy Crystal as Muhammad Ali on the Tonight Show July 11 1977 - YouTube ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 26, 2018 Author #138 Share Posted November 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said: I can understand why you're confused which probably explains a lot of your biased views on this subject. Please advise what are these Palestinian territories which a recognised Palestinian Govt has full sovereignty over and is not subject to occupation and control by a foreign state? 1) If these territories are under occupation and controlled by Israel how can you palm the blame off to the Palestinian Govt for what happens within the territory when they have no control over them? 2) If these territories are not occupied and controlled by Israel then you would be correct but then I would like you to explain why the Govt of Israel is placing hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers on these lands which belong to the Palestinians or why they blockade and control the movement of goods and people? Somebody is confused.. but it isn't me The Palestinians control Area C ... Israel still has military control over areas A and B. Are you REALLY suggesting that the Israeli's mandate that SOME Palestinians should live in Refugee camps, in ANY of those areas ? That is ridiculous. The refugee camps are a Palestinian creation - along with UNRWA. Israel has NOTHING to do with them. As for the Israeli settlements in the West Bank..... they are wrong. Simple as. However, this all comes down to the Palestinian betrayal of the Oslo Accords. Had the PLO not reneged on the agreements from day 1, then they would - by around 2004 - have had exclusive control of the "Area C" territory. ( around 60% of the West Bank). But they did renege, and Israel presumably saw no reason to restrain their settlement expansions as a result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 26, 2018 #139 Share Posted November 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Black Red Devil said: why they blockade and control the movement of goods and people? When Sharon initially used force to remove 8500 settlers from Gaza the rocket-fire never even paused. The busses continued to be blown up and the choice was to absolutely Roman on them or to find another way to protect Israeli citizens. They bottled up the flow and began building a barrier. The bombings stopped. THAT is the true answer. I think it's about time for a Palestinian "Diaspora" from the region. If these people had real leaders they could benefit from the world's largesse and have a state that would make all of them healthy, happy and even prosperous but they have lived on hate for so long they seem incapable of doing anything else. The misery is mostly self-inflicted. So be it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted November 26, 2018 #140 Share Posted November 26, 2018 The Romans taught thee well ... do unto others as thou wouldst be done unto thee ... ~ [00.21:10] ~ Quote ~ Anti-Zionism - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism Jump to Jewish anti-Zionism - Jewish anti-Zionism is as old as Zionism itself, and enjoyed widespread support in the Jewish community until ... Before 1948 · After World War II and ... · Outside the Jewish ... · Christian ~ Jews Against Zionism - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_Against_Zionism Jews Against Zionism: The American Council for Judaism, 1942-1948 is a 1990 book by Thomas A. Kolsky, a professor of history and political science at ... ~ Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism www.nkusa.org/ Neturei Karta is an international organization of Orthodox Jews dedicated to the propagation and clarification of Torah Judaism. ~ Why I am an anti-Zionist Jew | openDemocracy https://www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/ray-filar/why-i-am-antizionist-jew Apr 29, 2016 - Zionists – those who believe Israel should be a Jewish homeland - say it is us vs. them: the victimised Jews against the murderous Arabs. ~ Torah Jews | Against Zionism www.truetorahjews.org/ Sep 16, 2018 - ... the Har HaBayis (Temple Mount), adding his name to a long list of rabbis, both Zionist and Anti-Zionist, who have stated in no uncertain terms ... ~ The untold story of Jewish anti-Zionists in Israel | +972 Magazine https://972mag.com/the-untold-history-of-israeli-anti-zionists/134500/ Apr 8, 2018 - For nearly as long as Palestinians have resisted their displacement, small groups of Jews have joined them. Ran Greenstein's 'Zionism and Its ... ~ Ultra-Orthodox & Anti-Zionist | My Jewish Learning https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist/ The anti-Zionist world-view of the ultra-Orthodox groups Neturei Karta and Satmar Hasidism perceives Zionism and the establishment of the State of Israel as an ... ~ Jews Against Zion : Israeli Jewish Anti-Zionism | The Institute for ... https://www.palestine-studies.org/jps/fulltext/41165 Among Israeli Jews, there are three primary anti-Zionist critiques: that of religious Jews; that of the political left; and that of humanists like Dr. Magnes. Although ... ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 26, 2018 Author #141 Share Posted November 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, third_eye said: The Romans taught thee well ... do unto others as thou wouldst be done unto thee ... ~ [00.21:10] ~ ROFL.... "Men in Pigtails". Umm.. all very amusing I'm sure, but.. how does that relate to the discussion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted November 26, 2018 #142 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Just now, RoofGardener said: ROFL.... "Men in Pigtails". Umm.. all very amusing I'm sure, but.. how does that relate to the discussion ? Say that to the face of those Jewish people ... ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 26, 2018 #143 Share Posted November 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, third_eye said: Say that to the face of those Jewish people ... ~ While he's at it they could discuss the more immediate causes. I'm sure the discussion would be interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted November 26, 2018 #144 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Just now, and then said: While he's at it they could discuss the more immediate causes. I'm sure the discussion would be interesting. Sure ... kill more Palestinian civilians ... that will solve all his problems ... ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted November 26, 2018 #145 Share Posted November 26, 2018 3 hours ago, third_eye said: Say that to the face of those Jewish people ... ~ and what do you expect will happen??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted November 26, 2018 #146 Share Posted November 26, 2018 3 hours ago, third_eye said: The Romans taught thee well ... do unto others as thou wouldst be done unto thee ... ~ [00.21:10] ~ lol, a bunch of self hating clowns, no different than white liberals hating white man, no one takes them seriously here, do you think anyone in Israel takes these guys seriously?? lmao. in fact most none orthodox jews in Israel do not like them to say the least, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Red Devil Posted November 26, 2018 #147 Share Posted November 26, 2018 10 hours ago, RoofGardener said: Somebody is confused.. but it isn't me The Palestinians control Area C ... Israel still has military control over areas A and B. Are you REALLY suggesting that the Israeli's mandate that SOME Palestinians should live in Refugee camps, in ANY of those areas ? That is ridiculous. The refugee camps are a Palestinian creation - along with UNRWA. Israel has NOTHING to do with them. As for the Israeli settlements in the West Bank..... they are wrong. Simple as. However, this all comes down to the Palestinian betrayal of the Oslo Accords. Had the PLO not reneged on the agreements from day 1, then they would - by around 2004 - have had exclusive control of the "Area C" territory. ( around 60% of the West Bank). But they did renege, and Israel presumably saw no reason to restrain their settlement expansions as a result. If the Palestinians are in control of Area C then why is Israel still building settlements? The simple answer is that THEY ARE NOT IN CONTROL. The refugee camps are a comfortable excuse to suggest they are not within Israel and to wash their hands from accepting a generation of Palestinians that were evicted from lands that are now within Israeli territory. By claiming they are in Palestinian controlled territory is a lie and a deceitful one as well. To go along with your logic Israel should totally withdraw from the West Bank and let the Palestinians have total sovereignty over their land but this isn't going to happen is it because the strong Right Wing Conservatives in Israel have bigger dreams? In fact, we saw what happened anytime an Israeli leader tried to negotiate an agreement, Rabin got murdered and Barak was thrown out of office. While all along the settlers keep on settling, which is a clear breach of the Oslo Accords Rabin got murdered for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Red Devil Posted November 26, 2018 #148 Share Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, and then said: When Sharon initially used force to remove 8500 settlers from Gaza the rocket-fire never even paused. The busses continued to be blown up and the choice was to absolutely Roman on them or to find another way to protect Israeli citizens. They bottled up the flow and began building a barrier. The bombings stopped. THAT is the true answer. I think it's about time for a Palestinian "Diaspora" from the region. If these people had real leaders they could benefit from the world's largesse and have a state that would make all of them healthy, happy and even prosperous but they have lived on hate for so long they seem incapable of doing anything else. The misery is mostly self-inflicted. So be it. LOL. Another deceitful move by another Right Wing Israeli politician. The disengagement plan allowed Israel to move those settlers in a safer area and occupy more land in the West Bank and above all, they still kept total control over Gaza. By air, sea, border crossings, communication, water, sewerage etc., etc. Palestinians have a state??!! Not until Israeli voters select Labor leaders to run the country they won't. Edited November 26, 2018 by Black Red Devil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted November 27, 2018 #149 Share Posted November 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said: Not until all Israeli voters are killed or ejected from select Labor leaders to run the country they won't. Fixed that for you so that it reflects the truth on the ground. Despite the truth being understood by most Israelis, a day is coming when they will sign a "peace deal" because they have no better choice left. The Bible refers to it as "making a covenant with death". It will be the sign that the whole world is about to explode. Maybe even your little place in Paradise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted November 27, 2018 #150 Share Posted November 27, 2018 10 hours ago, aztek said: and what do you expect will happen??? It would make a fool of those that makes fun of their customs ... Quote ~ Shaving in Judaism - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaving_in_Judaism In Judaism, shaving with a razor is a prohibition that is based on rabbinic interpretation of ... According to biblical scholars, the shaving of hair, particularly of the corners of the beard, was originally a mourning custom; the behaviour appears, ... ~ ~ 9 hours ago, aztek said: lol, a bunch of self hating clowns, no different than white liberals hating white man, no one takes them seriously here, do you think anyone in Israel takes these guys seriously?? lmao. in fact most none orthodox jews in Israel do not like them to say the least, That does not makes them any less a Jew does it ? ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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