No peace in Palestine ?

[RoofGardener]

8 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

If the Palestinians are in control of Area C then why is Israel still building settlements?  The simple answer is that THEY ARE NOT IN CONTROL.  The refugee camps are a comfortable excuse to suggest they are not within Israel and to wash their hands from accepting a generation of Palestinians that were evicted from lands that are now within Israeli territory.  By claiming they are in Palestinian controlled territory is a lie and a deceitful one as well. 

To go along with your logic Israel should totally withdraw from the West Bank and let the Palestinians have total sovereignty over their land but this isn't going to happen is it because the strong Right Wing Conservatives in Israel have bigger dreams?  In fact, we saw what happened anytime an Israeli leader tried to negotiate an agreement, Rabin got murdered and Barak was thrown out of office. While all along the settlers keep on settling, which is a clear breach of the Oslo Accords Rabin got murdered for.

I've already said that I think the settlement expansion is wrong. 

Now... to the meat of things. Are you truly suggesting that the Israeli's are forcing Palestinians to remain in refugee camps within the West Bank ? 

The Oslo accords did not - I believe - mention settlers ? (although it WOULD have done if the PLO hadn't breached its core terms, and allowed the process to continue). 

As for the issue of sovereignty; it is more an issue of security. Or are you suggesting that the PLO doesn't (and didn't, at the time of Oslo) organise terrorist attacks from within the Area C ? 

Edited November 27, 2018 by RoofGardener

[Black Red Devil]

3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I've already said that I think the settlement expansion is wrong. 

Now... to the meat of things. Are you truly suggesting that the Israeli's are forcing Palestinians to remain in refugee camps within the West Bank ? 

The Oslo accords did not - I believe - mention settlers ? (although it WOULD have done if the PLO hadn't breached its core terms, and allowed the process to continue). 

As for the issue of sovereignty; it is more an issue of security. Or are you suggesting that the PLO doesn't (and didn't, at the time of Oslo) organise terrorist attacks from within the Area C ? 

Every discussion was about land, sovereign status, right of return and Jerusalem.  Israel has failed to concede anything to this day and on top of that they've kept on allowing settlers to build in the West Bank which is the reason the PLO previously and the PA nowadays have walked away from peace talks.  Israel has been in the grip of Right Wing parties who have shown no interest in peace because of their Zionist motives.  The only time any serious step for peace was taken by an Israeli he got murdered by a Right Wing fanatic. 

No, Palestinians shouldn't be in refugee camps, they should be living in their own state and territory but unfortunately most of the lands they were living in are occupied by Israelis after their houses were bulldozed.  Basically they have nowhere to go and the funny thing is that no matter how much Israel land grabs there are still some 3 million Arabs living in the West Bank.  There was some talk a while back by Right Wing Israeli senators to annex the West Bank but it wouldn't fit well with their ideological aspirations of making Israel a Jewish State with all those Arabs.  They'll never get rid of that thorn in their side unless they're prepared to commit a genocide, Nazi Germany style.  There is only one solution, a two state solution but the true peace-breakers, the Right Wing Zionist fanatics, will never go for that.

[Black Red Devil]

10 hours ago, and then said:

Fixed that for you so that it reflects the truth on the ground.  Despite the truth being understood by most Israelis, a day is coming when they will sign a "peace deal" because they have no better choice left.  The Bible refers to it as "making a covenant with death".  It will be the sign that the whole world is about to explode.  Maybe even your little place in Paradise.  

You must have mistaken me for some fanatical Bible thumper.

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, Black Red Devil said:

You must have mistaken me for some fanatical Bible thumper.

No.  Not even after it thumps you in the head.

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

Every discussion was about land, sovereign status, right of return and Jerusalem.  Israel has failed to concede anything to this day and on top of that they've kept on allowing settlers to build in the West Bank which is the reason the PLO previously and the PA nowadays have walked away from peace talks.  Israel has been in the grip of Right Wing parties who have shown no interest in peace because of their Zionist motives.  The only time any serious step for peace was taken by an Israeli he got murdered by a Right Wing fanatic. 

No, Palestinians shouldn't be in refugee camps, they should be living in their own state and territory but unfortunately most of the lands they were living in are occupied by Israelis after their houses were bulldozed.  Basically they have nowhere to go and the funny thing is that no matter how much Israel land grabs there are still some 3 million Arabs living in the West Bank.  There was some talk a while back by Right Wing Israeli senators to annex the West Bank but it wouldn't fit well with their ideological aspirations of making Israel a Jewish State with all those Arabs.  They'll never get rid of that thorn in their side unless they're prepared to commit a genocide, Nazi Germany style.  There is only one solution, a two state solution but the true peace-breakers, the Right Wing Zionist fanatics, will never go for that.

In regard the first paragraph; I agree. However, you should acknowledge that Israel has made  MANY concessions towards this goal. They fully engaged with the Oslo process, and went further than this with the Camp David 2000 offer. The PLO walked away simply because they do NOT want peace. Recall that if the two sides made a peace agreement, the PLO would have lost its reason to exist, and would likely lose the political power they have in their current fascist police state. 

In regard your second paragraph; you still haven't acknowledged that it is the PLO that lock Palestinians up in refugee camps, and refuse to allow them to integrate into general Palestinian civic society, and NOT the Israeli's. 

I'll grant you that the way forwards is a two-state solution, with secured borders. I'll also grant you that some right-wing Israeli fanatics don't want this. But then, neither do the Islamist fascists within the PLO. They are a marriage made in hell. Sadly, the more Israeli's that the PLO kill, and the more that they break their negotiating promises, the greater the tendency of Israeli citizens to vote for "strong" leaders that are - usually - right-wing zealots.  

If the PLO produced a "Ghandi" as a leader, then he could bring the whole sorry situation to a peaceful resolution within a year or two. Assuming he wasn't assassinated first. 

[aztek]

7 hours ago, third_eye said:

 

That does not makes them any less a Jew does it ?

~

 

depends who you ask, in the eyes of some in Israel it absolutely does.  and i am 100% sure they consider anyone who does not belong to their sect a lesser jew.

maybe you should familiarize yourself better with Jewish traditions and customs before you argue them with a Jew, who has been to Israel, and who has family there.

Edited November 27, 2018 by aztek

[SHaYap]

Just now, aztek said:

depends who you ask, in the eyes of some in Israel it absolutely does

So what makes a Jew , a Jew ?

~

[aztek]

4 minutes ago, third_eye said:

So what makes a Jew , a Jew ?

~

a Jewish mother. lol. that is as far as official status,, but how much of a jew you are depends on who  you talking to.

Edited November 27, 2018 by aztek

[SHaYap]

Just now, aztek said:

a Jewish mother. lol. that is as far as official

So do you know if their mothers are not Jewesses ?

~

[aztek]

Just now, third_eye said:

So do you know if their mothers are not Jewesses ?

~

what do you think?

[SHaYap]

Just now, aztek said:

what do you think?

You;re the one that made those accusations, you never really thought that through did you ?

~

[aztek]

6 minutes ago, third_eye said:

You;re the one that made those accusations, you never really thought that through did you ?

~

lmao. I sure did, unlike you, the answer is up there, and was there before you asked a question,  but you were never interested in an answer, you are trolling.

Edited November 27, 2018 by aztek

[SHaYap]

Just now, aztek said:

lmao. I sure did, unlike you, the answer is up there, and was there before you asked a question,  but you were never interested in an answer, you are trolling.

Nope, just wanted to know if the Jewish part of your family considers you a Jew ...

~

[aztek]

3 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Nope, just wanted to know if the Jewish part of your family considers you a Jew ...

~

then why didn't you ask that? like I said you are not interested in an answer, you are trolling, and you just made this b.s. excuse up.  I have 0 doubt you do not care what my family thinks of me, all you care is to be a troll

Edited November 27, 2018 by aztek

[SHaYap]

Just now, aztek said:

then why didn't you ask that? like I said you are not interested in an answer, you are trolling, and you just made this b.s. excuse up.  I have 0 doubt you do not care what my family things of me, all you care is to be a troll

Nope, I care very much, so are you a lesser Jew or more Jew than the rebel Rabbis ?

~

[aztek]

Just now, third_eye said:

Nope, I care very much, so are you a lesser Jew or more Jew than the rebel Rabbis ?

~

lmao, you just confirming, you are a troll,

[SHaYap]

Just now, aztek said:

lmao, you just confirming, you are a troll,

Oh come now ... I'd like to hear from a Jew what makes A Jew more Jew than another Jew ... especially a Jew such as yourself ...

~

[RoofGardener]

2 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Oh come now ... I'd like to hear from a Jew what makes A Jew more Jew than another Jew ... especially a Jew such as yourself ...

~

Simple. 

Hat size, and length of pigtails ! 

[SHaYap]

Just now, RoofGardener said:

Simple. 

Hat size, and length of pigtails ! 

Is that what the Jews say or is it what you say what a Jew is ?

~

[aztek]

4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Simple. 

Hat size, and length of pigtails ! 

hat size actually does matter,  it shows a rank in certain sects,  (those mink birdnests can cost upto 5000usd in usa)  peyot aka payos not as much

[SHaYap]

A nation of Holy People ...
 

Quote

 

~

Published on Jul 11, 2018

What does it mean to be a Jew? What is so unique about the Jewish People?

 

-

[00.02:56]

~

 

 

~

Not Pigtails . not Hats ... Not Zionism ...

~

[RoofGardener]

15 minutes ago, aztek said:

hat size actually does matter,  it shows a rank in certain sects,  (those mink birdnests can cost upto 5000usd in usa)  peyot aka payos not as much

I recall the episode of The Goodies - the Battle of Ecky Thump - about the eponymous martial art. 

The higher a practitioner's rank, the larger their flat caps. The Grand Master was carried on a palanquin, with a flat cap so huge that monks had to walk on his sides, holding the brim up !

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

22 hours ago, aztek said:

lol, a bunch of self hating  clowns, no different than white liberals hating white man,  no one takes them seriously here, do you think anyone in Israel takes these guys seriously?? lmao. in fact most none orthodox jews in Israel do not like them to say the least,

Aztec, you know and I know that when an African American expresses support for President Trump (Kanye West and others) all of a sudden, the "N" word comes flipping out at them by liberals. Where in the law code does it state that *ALL* African Americans must think alike, otherwise be known as "Traitor to your own kind". Why can't people just be judged on what they believe???

Same thing here. Not all Jews believe in Zionism. And frankly, their being Jewish does not change their arguments one bit.

These anti Zionists have God's Laws on their side... "Thou Shalt Not Kill, Thou Shalt Not Steal" - and no human is going to shake them from their religious belief.

[aztek]

7 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Aztec, you know and I know that when an African American expresses support for President Trump (Kanye West and others) all of a sudden, the "N" word comes flipping out at them by liberals. Where in the law code does it state that *ALL* African Americans must think alike, otherwise be known as "Traitor to your own kind". Why can't people just be judged on what they believe???

Same thing here. Not all Jews believe in Zionism. And frankly, their being Jewish does not change their arguments one bit.

These anti Zionists have God's Laws on their side... "Thou Shalt Not Kill, Thou Shalt Not Steal" - and no human is going to shake them from their religious belief.

yes there are always exceptions, however stereotypes, are generally true.

 

 

[Black Red Devil]

10 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

In regard the first paragraph; I agree. However, you should acknowledge that Israel has made  MANY concessions towards this goal. They fully engaged with the Oslo process, and went further than this with the Camp David 2000 offer. The PLO walked away simply because they do NOT want peace. Recall that if the two sides made a peace agreement, the PLO would have lost its reason to exist, and would likely lose the political power they have in their current fascist police state. 

In regard your second paragraph; you still haven't acknowledged that it is the PLO that lock Palestinians up in refugee camps, and refuse to allow them to integrate into general Palestinian civic society, and NOT the Israeli's. 

I'll grant you that the way forwards is a two-state solution, with secured borders. I'll also grant you that some right-wing Israeli fanatics don't want this. But then, neither do the Islamist fascists within the PLO. They are a marriage made in hell. Sadly, the more Israeli's that the PLO kill, and the more that they break their negotiating promises, the greater the tendency of Israeli citizens to vote for "strong" leaders that are - usually - right-wing zealots.  

If the PLO produced a "Ghandi" as a leader, then he could bring the whole sorry situation to a peaceful resolution within a year or two. Assuming he wasn't assassinated first. 

What concessions has Israel granted?  Gaza, a narrow strip of worthless land where Palestinians are crammed on top of each other which Israel totally controls.  There was a lot of talk but Israel kept on bulldozing and building settlements well aware that peace talks would inevitably break down.  Just a smokescreen to show the world but they've never put any serious thoughts to the idea.  Luckily for them Arafat 'the clown' gave them the opportunity to hide their real intentions by diverting the focus away from what they wanted to achieve and showcase all Palestinians as thieves and terrorists. 

Israel controls everything in, out and in between in the West Bank and Gaza but don't provide any financial support to Palestinians.  Refugee camps within 'Palestinian territories' are supported by the UNRWA and NGO's.  Where are these refugees supposed to go and how is the PA going to supply the expenses to build new housing and above all where, considering Israel posses 45% of the West Bank and Gaza is already like a sardine can?  On top of that Trump has recently withdrawn all aid to the Palestinians and the Govt of Israel, I believe, decides who builds what in Area C which constitutes about 61% of the West Bank.  There is nowhere for these refugees to go and they won't make it easy on Israel by moving into Israeli controlled territory.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Black Red Devil