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RoofGardener

No peace in Palestine ?

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Black Red Devil
10 minutes ago, seanjo said:

 

 

 

Try Russian Pograms.

 

Try reading up on Herzl.  Here, I'll make it easy for you.

Theodor Herzl, (born May 2, 1860, Budapest, Hungary, Austrian Empire [now in Hungary]—died July 3, 1904, Edlach, Austria), founder of the political form of Zionism, a movement to establish a Jewish homeland.

Someone who is desperate and victimised usually doesn't pretend but is happy to accept what they're given and share if this is intruding on others.  Designing a dream for a Greater Israel doesn't seem to fit that criteria.  So it wasn't about pogroms, the goal to reach was greater than that.

Edited by Black Red Devil

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seanjo

The worst of this micro-Anti-Semitism is the ignorance or willful ignorance of the past persecution of Jews!

Because of the Roman Diaspora (recorded in History), Jews had to emigrate; and because of the blood libel perceived and made up by Christians along with the hatred brought on by the belief Jews killed Christ and the general ideological bigotry of Islam, Jews have been persecuted for 2000 years and it all culminated with the Holocaust. Ask yourself after all of that what would you do?

 

Your family has been murdered because of their religion/ethnicity, your neighbors turned them in, would you want to live amongst those people?

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seanjo
8 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Try reading up on Herzl.  Here, I'll make it easy for you.

Theodor Herzl, (born May 2, 1860, Budapest, Hungary, Austrian Empire [now in Hungary]—died July 3, 1904, Edlach, Austria), founder of the political form of Zionism, a movement to establish a Jewish homeland.

You can try to obfuscate. But modern Zionism was born out of persecution of Jews.

 

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Black Red Devil
11 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Tolerance ? Well.. yes... in a state of dhimmitude. The Jews got along with the Arabs because they "knew their place" as second class citizens. Under Zionism, however, they started to stand up for themselves, and demand equality. And so the Arabs got angry and tried to subdue them. 

As for the statement that ".... “there is no inherent anti-Semitism in the country, racial or religious.”, how come all of the anti-Jewish pogroms where led by Imams, and mostly occurred after Friday prayers in the mosques" ? Sounds pretty Religious to ME ? Just as the opening post quotation does in more recent times. 

 

OK tolerance.  Now let's see.  Before the Balfour Declaration there were less than 100,000 Jews and more than half a million Arabs.  Then the British DECIDED ON BEHALF OF THE LOCAL POPULATION, to open the floodgates and let the Jews in, in large numbers.  This obviously pi$$ed off the locals who knew what was coming. 

Well, what do you know, similar to Brexit.  The British live on their land peacefully, a Govt in another country (Brussels in this case) decides to open the floodgates and you get invaded by immigrants from another land.  You rebel and complain (Brexit Referendum).  Of course this was done in a more civilised manner because you still possess your country. 

You voted Brexit didn't you? (you better say yes otherwise Stevewinn will get you) :P

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Black Red Devil
12 minutes ago, seanjo said:

You can try to obfuscate. But modern Zionism was born out of persecution of Jews.

 

See my edited response.

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seanjo
11 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

See my edited response.

Whatever, you're talking ****e, it was/is all about oppression.

Edited by seanjo
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Black Red Devil
3 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Whatever, you're talking ****e, it was all about oppression.

I see and now the oppressed are oppressing others.  They learnt their lesson well. 

Spare the ad hominems mate, I don't get flustered easily.

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third_eye

Never mind the locals up and down Palestine were fine living together for ages, sure there were this and that here and there but never the likes of the imported and highly Organized ethnic suppression transferred from a different time and place forcibly enforced onto the local population.

~

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seanjo
27 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

I see and now the oppressed are oppressing others.  They learnt their lesson well. 

 

1

No, the oppressed have been under constant attack since the UN gifted them that land after the hideousness of the Holocaust, you can't disconnect the formation of Israel from the Holocaust, even if the UN had not said that land was theirs the Jews would have taken it, because of the Holocaust, you really can't underestimate the effect something like the Holocaust will have on the victims...unless you are an unfeeling Anti-Semite.

The Jews learned their (modern day) lessons because of the constant ongoing aggression of the surrounding Islamist Arabs. It's understandable that a country will bend to the extreme after 70 years of constant attack! And get this right...it's not about land in the Islamists eyes, it's about religion. 

 

Edited by seanjo
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bmk1245
51 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Never mind the locals up and down Palestine were fine living together for ages, sure there were this and that here and there but never the likes of the imported and highly Organized ethnic suppression transferred from a different time and place forcibly enforced onto the local population.

~

I'm here with you: when Jordan will give its territory to Palestine?

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Black Red Devil
2 hours ago, seanjo said:

No, the oppressed have been under constant attack since the UN gifted them that land after the hideousness of the Holocaust, you can't disconnect the formation of Israel from the Holocaust, even if the UN had not said that land was theirs the Jews would have taken it, because of the Holocaust, you really can't underestimate the effect something like the Holocaust will have on the victims...unless you are an unfeeling Anti-Semite.

The Jews learned their (modern day) lessons because of the constant ongoing aggression of the surrounding Islamist Arabs. It's understandable that a country will bend to the extreme after 70 years of constant attack! And get this right...it's not about land in the Islamists eyes, it's about religion. 

 

:lol: here we have another one that comes along telling everyone that doesn't suck up to the pro Israeli Govt/Right wing fascist agenda, an anti-semite.  Yep, the world was ready to settle them in places as far away as Tasmania and South America, that's how much the world felt so strongly about the need to associate the holocaust with a State of Israel in Palestine.

The Zionist chose to live instead in a hostile environment and flood the place with people that weren't even racially semitic, like the Russian Askenazi Jews and other Jews from the old Soviet Union.  They speak Yiddish which is even mixed with Russian and other Slavic languages. 

They've been under attack because the UK forced mass immigration of Jews on the Arabs (Balfour) when the Jewish population at the time in Palestine was less than 10%.  After WWII, the UN partitioned 2/3 of the most arable lands to the Jews and the Arab population had to accept this without revolting in your mind.  Amazing. 

The British voted to reject the Govt of Brussels for a lot less, I bet you would've fought (or maybe not if you're an armchair hawk) and taken up arms if you were forced upon, bullied, discriminated and oppressed against in your own land.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Black Red Devil
2 hours ago, third_eye said:

Never mind the locals up and down Palestine were fine living together for ages, sure there were this and that here and there but never the likes of the imported and highly Organized ethnic suppression transferred from a different time and place forcibly enforced onto the local population.

~

In fact, 400 years of the Inquisition against non Catholics but aimed mainly at Jews, Pogrom attacks in Russia, the Holocaust massacre in Europe but the Arabs were the worst because their Religion forced the Jizya onto non muslims.

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Black Red Devil
2 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

I'm here with you: when Jordan will give its territory to Palestine?

The State of Palestine doesn't have a territory, it's been occupied by Israel in case you missed that part.

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and then
6 hours ago, third_eye said:

If so, did JC broke his end of the bargain or did you, then, forgo living up to your end of the deal ?

~

Man, I have no clue what you are trying to say.

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and then
12 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Well, if you plan to keep claiming you're Christian, you should start doubting that. Because Jesus specifically said that no one knows when the end is coming, not him, not the angels, only the Father in Heaven. So there. 

You can't coax Jesus into second coming. You're only human, you do not get to manipulate God.

Trying to force the situation into looking like something from the OT, with intention to trigger doomsday, is blasphemy - from an actual Christian point of view, because it directly contradicts Jesus' words.

So start doubting or stop hiding behind Jesus. 

Where did I say anything about His timing?  Please tell me how you get that from my words:  "It will be given to them at the proper time, of that, I have no doubt."

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third_eye
4 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

I'm here with you: when Jordan will give its territory to Palestine?

Nope, you were somewhere else totally.

~

2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

In fact, 400 years of the Inquisition against non Catholics but aimed mainly at Jews, Pogrom attacks in Russia, the Holocaust massacre in Europe but the Arabs were the worst because their Religion forced the Jizya onto non muslims.

Islam became the convenient scapegoat. The Islamic nations got everything that is coveted, from the Suez to crude deposits

2 hours ago, and then said:

Man, I have no clue what you are trying to say.

Not entirely true, you have no clue to what you are reading, a form of spiritual brain freeze.

~

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RoofGardener
3 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

:lol: here we have another one that comes along telling everyone that doesn't suck up to the pro Israeli Govt/Right wing fascist agenda, an anti-semite.  Yep, the world was ready to settle them in places as far away as Tasmania and South America, that's how much the world felt so strongly about the need to associate the holocaust with a State of Israel in Palestine.

The Zionist chose to live instead in a hostile environment and flood the place with people that weren't even racially semitic, like the Russian Askenazi Jews and other Jews from the old Soviet Union.  They speak Yiddish which is even mixed with Russian and other Slavic languages. ....

As opposed to living with a hostile environment within Ethiopia, Uganda, South America, or Tasmania ? All of the native peoples would have objected, no matter WHERE the new "Israel" was put. Given that, you may as well put it somewhere that has a cultural resonance to the Jews. Hence Judea !

3 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

They've been under attack because the UK forced mass immigration of Jews on the Arabs (Balfour) when the Jewish population at the time in Palestine was less than 10%. 

Oh really ? Well, perhaps there is SOME truth to that. But it seems highly co-incidental that most of the anti-Jewish pogroms where on a Friday, after Friday Prayers in the mosque, and where led and encouraged by Imams, citing Islamic Scripture, rather than politicians citing demographics or Arab Nationalism.

Edited by RoofGardener
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bmk1245
3 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

The State of Palestine doesn't have a territory, it's been occupied by Israel in case you missed that part.

 

1 hour ago, third_eye said:

Nope, you were somewhere else totally.

[...]

Sooo... Neither of you cares that Jordan occupies parts of Palestine? Why is that?

Ah, silly me, Jordan is muslim country...

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third_eye
6 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

 

Sooo... Neither of you cares that Jordan occupies parts of Palestine? Why is that?

Soooo ... why do you care at all ?

~

 

6 hours ago, bmk1245 said:

Ah, silly me, Jordan is muslim country...

Yes silly you ... it has nothing to do with fears conjured up from a over a thousand years ago clogging up your brain

~
 

Quote

 

~

The Hashemites are the ruling royal family of Jordan. The House was also the royal family of ... The ceremonial Hashemite banner of the Kingdom of Jordan ...

 

~


 

 

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Helen of Annoy
10 hours ago, and then said:

Where did I say anything about His timing?  Please tell me how you get that from my words:  "It will be given to them at the proper time, of that, I have no doubt."

You really enjoy being deus-vulted for your blasphemy, huh? 

All right, let me do it one more time: If you want to be a Christian, you can never, ever go against teachings of Jesus Christ. You cannot claim you have got a prophesy to share, based on the Old Testament, that is directly and obviously the opposite of what Jesus said, and which on top of it implies you know better than Jesus what future brings.   

Furthermore, a Christian won't ever gloat over genocides, especially won't actively support them, and certainly won't even try to excuse them with the Old Testament, because Jesus commanded you to love you neighbour as you love yourself and to do to others what you would have them do to you.

You are not living in the OT time, you cannot behave like people from the OT, ever since Jesus told you better. 

So, Christian, you are free to give your house and plot of land to Netanyahu, but you are not allowed to give the land of others to him. Because you wouldn't like someone else to do that unto you.   

Of course, if you wish to stick to the OT and ignore what Jesus said, you're free to do so but you're not Christian then. It would be some sort of quasi-Judaism, I guess. Weird. Why not just simply convert to real Judaism then?  

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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DarkHunter
43 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

You really enjoy being deus-vulted for your blasphemy, huh? 

All right, let me do it one more time: If you want to be a Christian, you can never, ever go against teachings of Jesus Christ. You cannot claim you have got a prophesy to share, based on the Old Testament, that is directly and obviously the opposite of what Jesus said, and which on top of it implies you know better than Jesus what future brings.   

Furthermore, a Christian won't ever gloat over genocides, especially won't actively support them, and certainly won't even try to excuse them with the Old Testament, because Jesus commanded you to love you neighbour as you love yourself and to do to others what you would have them do to you.

You are not living in the OT time, you cannot behave like people from the OT, ever since Jesus told you better. 

So, Christian, you are free to give your house and plot of land to Netanyahu, but you are not allowed to give the land of others to him. Because you wouldn't like someone else to do that unto you.   

Of course, if you wish to stick to the OT and ignore what Jesus said, you're free to do so but you're not Christian then. It would be some sort of quasi-Judaism, I guess. Weird. Why not just simply convert to real Judaism then?  

I know this is between you and and then but there is so much wrong in your post it is amazing.  I would go through every part where you are wrong but I'm at work currently, but it will be fun to see how this all goes.

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and then
48 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

but it will be fun to see how this all goes.

Nah, because I rarely interact with aunty anymore.  She's one of a few here who read what I say but purport to "understand what I think" and apparently the two often don't resemble each other.  It's just a waste of time.  When their accusations about what I actually SAID cannot be justified, they go off into some diatribe that is supposed to justify their misstatements.  It just gets boring to see them scramble to make themselves look less dishonest.

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Helen of Annoy
1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

I know this is between you and and then but there is so much wrong in your post it is amazing.  I would go through every part where you are wrong but I'm at work currently, but it will be fun to see how this all goes.

 

25 minutes ago, and then said:

Nah, because I rarely interact with aunty anymore.  She's one of a few here who read what I say but purport to "understand what I think" and apparently the two often don't resemble each other.  It's just a waste of time.  When their accusations about what I actually SAID cannot be justified, they go off into some diatribe that is supposed to justify their misstatements.  It just gets boring to see them scramble to make themselves look less dishonest.

Deus Vult, blasphemers :lol:

Kidding. I love me some morbid humour. 

On a less funny side, it really is an outright blasphemy to even think of misrepresenting yourself as Christian while consciously despising the words of Christ, digging though the Old Testament to justify hate, plunder and genocide.  

 

By the way, when you gloat over divide in religions of others, remember how far you have split from the true Christianity and out of what motives. Ew. 

 

Back on topic. 

Has Kushner made Middle East peaceful yet? No? What a surprise. 

God help us all, you managed to make already impossible situation so. much. worse.   

For everyone, including the sane and decent people in Israel. 

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Black Red Devil
13 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

As opposed to living with a hostile environment within Ethiopia, Uganda, South America, or Tasmania ? All of the native peoples would have objected, no matter WHERE the new "Israel" was put. Given that, you may as well put it somewhere that has a cultural resonance to the Jews. Hence Judea !

 

The lesser of the evils huh?  I would almost believe this if it wouldn't be for that little detail about "a Greater Israel" (not only Judea) which inspired the great Herzl in his quest for a new homeland, which was the drive that inspired all of this and tends to take the focus away from simply finding a home for desperate people that suffered humiliation throughout history and eventually genocide by the hands of mainly European populations.

Sure, neither Islam, nor Christianity have a pristine history and it's always been about religion and the thousands of year old prophecies, beliefs, etc., but the reason many Muslims have become so fanatic about Islam today is because Zionism was forced on them by Christians and they rebelled. Read about Bin Laden, a pinnacle of modern day Islamic terrorism, to find out for yourself. I read once that you hardly ever used to see women wearing Burkas, these days it's almost worn as a pride badge of honor.

Giving Jews a land in mainly Christian habitats would not have been the same but the Zionists weren't interested. :no:   

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Black Red Devil
4 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

I know this is between you and and then but there is so much wrong in your post it is amazing.  I would go through every part where you are wrong but I'm at work currently, but it will be fun to see how this all goes.

Christian Zionism, an oxymoron if I've ever seen one.  Is it a prophecy where Jews eventually become Christians or the other way around?  Considering the faith is growing in Israel I would say the other way around. :P

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