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RoofGardener

No peace in Palestine ?

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and then
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Imagine the hoo-hah in the USA if PBS aired an episode of Sesame Street in which Big Bird read out a poem describing black people as "Barbaric Monkeys". 

Just IMAGINE it. There would be riots in the streets. The senior management of PBS would be sacked immediately. Big Bird would have to spend the next 3 months regularly reading out a retraction, and special episodes would have to be produced praising black people. There would be world criticism.  

Of course, this would never happen.

Unless you work for Palestinian TV (the Palestinian TV station controlled by the Palestinian Authority), in which case the world would be - and indeed IS - silent. 

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=14951

Yes, and we know why they are silent.  The saddest aspect of it all is that if pressed, they cannot really explain why it is so important to remove these people from that land AT ANY COST.  Because you know that is where the world is headed.  The forcible attempt will be made and the costs will be staggering.

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third_eye
1 minute ago, and then said:

Yes, and we know why they are silent. 

I don't speak for anybody else but for myself personally. I enjoy seeing you and roofie make such bigoted prejudiced fools of yourselves that I am quietly content to see you both continue making an absolute embarrassment of your clueless selves ... I say it now because I know what I say will not stop any of your nonsense, but hey, if your fellow country folks and believers are concurring agreeably, who am I to say anything, :D

~

7 minutes ago, and then said:

  The saddest aspect of it all is that if pressed, they cannot really explain why it is so important to remove these people from that land AT ANY COST.

Genius ... :lol:

~

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and then
On 10/15/2018 at 4:17 PM, Black Red Devil said:

Is it a prophecy where Jews eventually become Christians or the other way around? 

You're honest enough in this statement to admit you aren't SURE what is meant by the term Christian Zionism.  Rather than ridicule it from ignorance why not spend a few minutes learning what it actually means?  Or are such things as facts unnecessary when you are stating your opinions?  Believing that Christion Zionists are wrong is perfectly valid but to do so without truly understanding what they believe is intellectually dishonest, or at least lazy.  I'm a Christian who believes that the descendants of Jacob (Israel) have a perpetual promise to possess all the land from the "river of Egypt to the Euphrates".  BUT, I believe that the complete fulfillment of that promise is contingent on their actions before God.  IOW, it will happen when He allows it, not when Israel's leaders demand it.  I do not give them a pass when they brutalize people but I do recognize their human right to self-defense when they and their children are being attacked.  It all reduces to one point in the end.  Is achieving what you perceive as justice for the Palestinians worth a regional or even global war?  If it is then I commend your strength of commitment to your principles.  

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RoofGardener
18 hours ago, third_eye said:

I don't speak for anybody else but for myself personally. I enjoy seeing you and roofie make such bigoted prejudiced fools of yourselves that I am quietly content to see you both continue making an absolute embarrassment of your clueless selves ... I say it now because I know what I say will not stop any of your nonsense, but hey, if your fellow country folks and believers are concurring agreeably, who am I to say anything, :D

~

Genius ... :lol:

~

I see you make ZERO comment on the content of the post, and merely throw out an ad-hominem attack ? 

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third_eye
Just now, RoofGardener said:

I see you make ZERO comment on the content of the post, and merely throw out an ad-hominem attack ? 

You saw ZERO because that's all you see, my glorious ad-hominem poster boy ...

Carry on roofie dear, you and poofie pops gots all the laffs I need ...

~

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RoofGardener
34 minutes ago, third_eye said:

You saw ZERO because that's all you see, my glorious ad-hominem poster boy ...

Carry on roofie dear, you and poofie pops gots all the laffs I need ...

~

Are you drunk or something ? :unsure2:

 

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third_eye
Just now, RoofGardener said:

Are you drunk or something ? :unsure2:

 

Drunk form laughter ... yes indeed

~

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and then

Meanwhile   http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/255168

This was a bit of a shocker.  I hadn't heard of any factories in Beirut doing precision upgrades on the existing stockpiles.  When the next war between the IDF and the Hizballah comes it is going to be at a horrible cost to Israel but I doubt Hizballah will survive in any meaningful way.  Israel has tried to maintain its place among its Arab neighbors by using the least force possible.  The tipping point was always going to be reached when they were left with no good choices.  We're there.  Iran is in its economic death throes and is lashing out in the only meaningful way possible.  They're employing these expensive Proxies they've built for just such a day.  The Hizballah alone have 150,000 missiles.  Most of the launchers are hidden in civilian neighborhoods and the missile stockpiles are hidden inside homes and infrastructure so that fighting this war will require the IDF to appear to commit war crimes.  The noose is tightening and the temperature is rising.  Those who hate Israel will probably see this as a good thing.  They won't admit it, of course.  The death toll will be staggering.  I don't think the world grasps just how bad this will be.  All the media will treat this war the way they've treated Trump for 2 years but the tens of millions of us who support Israel will know why these things are happening.  

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Truthseeker007

index-1.jpg

 

 

Edited by Truthseeker007

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Truthseeker007

fd8b0f77d767f1f6640afba6916ff67c_XL.jpg

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 11/22/2018 at 11:57 AM, and then said:

You're honest enough in this statement to admit you aren't SURE what is meant by the term Christian Zionism.  Rather than ridicule it from ignorance why not spend a few minutes learning what it actually means?  Or are such things as facts unnecessary when you are stating your opinions?  Believing that Christion Zionists are wrong is perfectly valid but to do so without truly understanding what they believe is intellectually dishonest, or at least lazy.  I'm a Christian who believes that the descendants of Jacob (Israel) have a perpetual promise to possess all the land from the "river of Egypt to the Euphrates".  BUT, I believe that the complete fulfillment of that promise is contingent on their actions before God.  IOW, it will happen when He allows it, not when Israel's leaders demand it.  I do not give them a pass when they brutalize people but I do recognize their human right to self-defense when they and their children are being attacked.  It all reduces to one point in the end.  Is achieving what you perceive as justice for the Palestinians worth a regional or even global war?  If it is then I commend your strength of commitment to your principles.  

 

The Christian belief that the descendants of Jacob have a promise that they can own the land does not mean they have the right to break God's commandments as well, inre, stealing homes and other personal property, and killing people and driving off their land in the process.

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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and then
6 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said:

fd8b0f77d767f1f6640afba6916ff67c_XL.jpg

You should at least vet your sources.  This map was debunked a long time ago but even if it were accurate, there are consequences to starting wars of aggression.  The Arabs got what they deserved.

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Truthseeker007
4 minutes ago, and then said:

You should at least vet your sources.  This map was debunked a long time ago but even if it were accurate, there are consequences to starting wars of aggression.  The Arabs got what they deserved.

How was it debunked? It is quite obvious what the Zionist are doing to the Palestinians. It is straight up massacre and stealing of land from a native population. They should be held liable for war crimes.

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2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

The Christian belief that the descendants of Jacob have a promise that they can own the land does not mean they have the right to break God's commandments as well, inre, stealing homes and other personal property, and killing people and driving off their land in the process.

Perhaps you can cite the post number where I made the argument that they could?

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7 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

How was it debunked? It is quite obvious what the Zionist are doing to the Palestinians. It is straight up massacre and stealing of land from a native population. They should be held liable for war crimes.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/03/map-that-lies-and-one-that-doesnt.html

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RoofGardener
Just now, Truthseeker007 said:

How was it debunked? 

<sigh>.. here we go again. 

The first frame shows "Palestinian Land" vs "Jewish Land". 

It wasn't "Palestinian Land"... it was Arab land - there WHERE no "Palestinians" in 1946. Or rather, EVERYONE in the region - including the Jews - where Palestinian. Notice the Negev desert. Who owned THAT ? The Arabs ? No... they didn't. Large amounts of the land where - with the fall of the ottoman Empire - effectively disorganised. (e.g. no owners). 

The second frame shows the borders as proposed by the UN. Once more, the area labelled "Palestinian Land" was actually "Arab Land".. there WHERE no "Palestinians".. not in the sense of a nation. There where Jordanians and Syrians and Bedouins... but no "Palestinians". The UN proposal makes ZERO reference to "Palestinians"... just Arabs. 

The third frame shows the situation just after the 1967 war. Once more, there where no "Palestinians". The PLO - Palestine Liberation Organisation - DID exist - just - but they did NOT have a concept of a Palestinian nation. In addition, the land labelled (falsely) as "Palestinian" was actually Jordanian  and Egyptian. It was only when Israel occupied the west bank (and initially Gaza) that the "Palestinians" emerged as a unique peoples, and it wasn't until 1988 that the PLO formally declared a Palestinian "Nation". 

The final frame shows the situation close to the modern day. However, it only shows the Category A and category B areas. The category C areas are shown as "Israeli". The only reason that Israel is still in control of these areas is that the PLO welched on the Oslo Accords. If they had kept faith, then those areas would be MUCH bigger. Indeed, they would look much more like the original UN partition plan. 

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
32 minutes ago, and then said:

Perhaps you can cite the post number where I made the argument that they could?

Whoa! Are you serious, and then...? We've posted quite a bit to one another. It was my understanding that your belief is that what ever Israel does to wrestle more palestinian land is Ok.

If not, then I gladly stand corrected. Welcome to the Palestinian cause.

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Truthseeker007
41 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

<sigh>.. here we go again. 

The first frame shows "Palestinian Land" vs "Jewish Land". 

It wasn't "Palestinian Land"... it was Arab land - there WHERE no "Palestinians" in 1946. Or rather, EVERYONE in the region - including the Jews - where Palestinian. Notice the Negev desert. Who owned THAT ? The Arabs ? No... they didn't. Large amounts of the land where - with the fall of the ottoman Empire - effectively disorganised. (e.g. no owners). 

The second frame shows the borders as proposed by the UN. Once more, the area labelled "Palestinian Land" was actually "Arab Land".. there WHERE no "Palestinians".. not in the sense of a nation. There where Jordanians and Syrians and Bedouins... but no "Palestinians". The UN proposal makes ZERO reference to "Palestinians"... just Arabs. 

The third frame shows the situation just after the 1967 war. Once more, there where no "Palestinians". The PLO - Palestine Liberation Organisation - DID exist - just - but they did NOT have a concept of a Palestinian nation. In addition, the land labelled (falsely) as "Palestinian" was actually Jordanian  and Egyptian. It was only when Israel occupied the west bank (and initially Gaza) that the "Palestinians" emerged as a unique peoples, and it wasn't until 1988 that the PLO formally declared a Palestinian "Nation". 

The final frame shows the situation close to the modern day. However, it only shows the Category A and category B areas. The category C areas are shown as "Israeli". The only reason that Israel is still in control of these areas is that the PLO welched on the Oslo Accords. If they had kept faith, then those areas would be MUCH bigger. Indeed, they would look much more like the original UN partition plan. 

 

So you are creating your own fictional history?

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Earl.Of.Trumps

@RoofGardener   " there WHERE no "Palestinians" in 1946. "

 

Roofgardener, I have it as Palestine is part of the Canaan region. And even Gold Meir was listed as "Palestinian" on her passport because she was from Palestine. Very simple. But "What is in a name?". The residents there should have a right to life regardless of what they are called. If they own title to land, that should be respected by any government that assumes control of the land. Simple, basic human rights.

Did Iraq have the right to take over Kuwait just because they had better weapons? Then who came to the Palestinians' aid, and WHY NOT?

They'll always be human no matter what factions hate them.

 

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Truthseeker007
9 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

@RoofGardener   " there WHERE no "Palestinians" in 1946. "

 

Roofgardener, I have it as Palestine is part of the Canaan region. And even Gold Meir was listed as "Palestinian" on her passport because she was from Palestine. Very simple. But "What is in a name?". The residents there should have a right to life regardless of what they are called. If they own title to land, that should be respected by any government that assumes control of the land. Simple, basic human rights.

Did Iraq have the right to take over Kuwait just because they had better weapons? Then who came to the Palestinians' aid, and WHY NOT?

They'll always be human no matter what factions hate them.

 

Precisely!! Well said!

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and then
2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Whoa! Are you serious, and then...? We've posted quite a bit to one another. It was my understanding that your belief is that what ever Israel does to wrestle more palestinian land is Ok.

If not, then I gladly stand corrected. Welcome to the Palestinian cause.

From my post, 112, 

 "BUT, I believe that the complete fulfillment of that promise is contingent on their actions before God.  IOW, it will happen when He allows it, not when Israel's leaders demand it.  I do not give them a pass when they brutalize people but I do recognize their human right to self-defense when they and their children are being attacked.  It all reduces to one point in the end.  Is achieving what you perceive as justice for the Palestinians worth a regional or even global war?  If it is then I commend your strength of commitment to your principles." 

I will never make apologies for my support of the rights of the descendants of Israel to live in that land.  Ultimately, they will inherit it all but they will not take it by force.  As to the Palestinian cause, I wish them the best in their struggle against a corrupt leadership that doesn't care about THEM at all.  It is horrible what is happening to them and their children.  Only an evil person takes delight in anyone's suffering.  But everything gets reduced to black and white in such arguments.  You're either for the Palestinians or you're wrong and possibly evil.  I refuse to accept that label.  I don't automatically assume that every person who champions the Palestinians because of the media images and stories is an anti-Semite or Jew hater.  They see images of suffering and see a picture of injustice that has been neatly encapsulated for them without context or an accurate citation of history.  That part of the story will never change until Christ Himself returns to cause the question to be settled.  

2 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said:

So you are creating your own fictional history?

He is just referring to commonly known information that isn't known - or accepted - by those who have a closed mind on this topic.  What he's saying is absolutely honest.  The references that you make to "occupation" and the ever-popular myth that "settlements" are at the root of all the conflict are dispelled by the mere existence of the PLO.  The Palestine Liberation Organization was created by the Egyptian-born Yassir Arafat in 1964 with the purpose of the

 "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle, with much of its violence aimed at Israeli civilians" 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization

The settler movement in Israel came out of the belief that the land was THEIRS by right but even those who reject this surely can't rationally blame the current violence against Jews to that movement since the PLO was formed many years prior to the first settlement's existence.  Again, the bottom line here is that in this dispute there is no room for compromise due to the bloody history of tit for tat atrocities and reprisals.  There IS room for honest disagreement about who is in the right but to effectively demand that the Jewish people living there now must accept a single state where demographics will eventually create a 58th Islamic state or that they must be rooted out and dispersed again is unacceptable, even irrational.  

So, Truthseeker, I'll ask you what I asked @Earl.Of.Trumps, considering that injustice is a reality of life in every part of our world, every day, how far do you think the world is justified in going to achieve what you consider "justice" for this one group of people, the Palestinians?  He didn't answer.  How about you?

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RoofGardener
11 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said:

So you are creating your own fictional history?

Ummm.... no. What I have said is - I believe - accurate. It is the maps create a fictional history. Or at least, a fictional historic demographic.

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RoofGardener
11 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said:

They show absolutely no proof of what they say in the blogspot.

Strictly speaking, you are correct. The blog post makes a series of statements without sourcing articles in support of them. 

However, the original map does the same thing :D

Can you dispute the figures given in the blog, or in my post #117 ? :) 

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