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RoofGardener

No peace in Palestine ?

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RoofGardener
7 minutes ago, third_eye said:

The Romans taught thee well ... do unto others as thou wouldst be done unto thee ...

~

 

[00.21:10]

~

 

ROFL.... "Men in Pigtails". 

Umm.. all very amusing I'm sure, but.. how does that relate to the discussion ? 

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third_eye
Just now, RoofGardener said:

ROFL.... "Men in Pigtails". 

Umm.. all very amusing I'm sure, but.. how does that relate to the discussion ? 

Say that to the face of those Jewish people ...

~

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and then
4 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Say that to the face of those Jewish people ...

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While he's at it they could discuss the more immediate causes.  I'm sure the discussion would be interesting.  

 

Bus bombing.jpg

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third_eye
Just now, and then said:

While he's at it they could discuss the more immediate causes.  I'm sure the discussion would be interesting.  

 

Bus bombing.jpg

Sure ... kill more Palestinian civilians ... that will solve all his problems ...

~

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aztek
3 hours ago, third_eye said:

Say that to the face of those Jewish people ...

~

and what do you expect will happen???

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aztek
3 hours ago, third_eye said:

The Romans taught thee well ... do unto others as thou wouldst be done unto thee ...

~

 

[00.21:10]

~

 

lol, a bunch of self hating  clowns, no different than white liberals hating white man,  no one takes them seriously here, do you think anyone in Israel takes these guys seriously?? lmao. in fact most none orthodox jews in Israel do not like them to say the least,

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Black Red Devil
10 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Somebody is confused.. but it isn't me :D 

The Palestinians control Area C ... Israel still has military control over areas A and B. 

Are you REALLY suggesting that the Israeli's mandate that SOME Palestinians should live in Refugee camps, in ANY of those areas ? That is ridiculous. The refugee camps are a Palestinian creation - along with UNRWA. Israel has NOTHING to do with them. 

As for the Israeli settlements in the West Bank..... they are wrong. Simple as. However, this all comes down to the Palestinian betrayal of the Oslo Accords. Had the PLO not reneged on the agreements from day 1, then they would - by around 2004 - have had exclusive control of the "Area C" territory. ( around 60% of the West Bank). But they did renege, and Israel presumably saw no reason to restrain their settlement expansions as a result.

If the Palestinians are in control of Area C then why is Israel still building settlements?  The simple answer is that THEY ARE NOT IN CONTROL.  The refugee camps are a comfortable excuse to suggest they are not within Israel and to wash their hands from accepting a generation of Palestinians that were evicted from lands that are now within Israeli territory.  By claiming they are in Palestinian controlled territory is a lie and a deceitful one as well. 

To go along with your logic Israel should totally withdraw from the West Bank and let the Palestinians have total sovereignty over their land but this isn't going to happen is it because the strong Right Wing Conservatives in Israel have bigger dreams?  In fact, we saw what happened anytime an Israeli leader tried to negotiate an agreement, Rabin got murdered and Barak was thrown out of office. While all along the settlers keep on settling, which is a clear breach of the Oslo Accords Rabin got murdered for.

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Black Red Devil
6 hours ago, and then said:

When Sharon initially used force to remove 8500 settlers from Gaza the rocket-fire never even paused.  The busses continued to be blown up and the choice was to absolutely Roman on them or to find another way to protect Israeli citizens.  They bottled up the flow and began building a barrier.  The bombings stopped.  THAT is the true answer.  I think it's about time for a Palestinian "Diaspora" from the region.  If these people had real leaders they could benefit from the world's largesse and have a state that would make all of them healthy, happy and even prosperous but they have lived on hate for so long they seem incapable of doing anything else.  The misery is mostly self-inflicted.   So be it.

LOL.  Another deceitful move by another Right Wing Israeli politician.  The disengagement plan allowed Israel to move those settlers in a safer area and occupy more land in the West Bank and above all, they still kept total control over Gaza.  By air, sea, border crossings, communication, water, sewerage etc., etc. 

Palestinians have a state??!!  :lol: Not until Israeli voters select Labor leaders to run the country they won't.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Not until all Israeli voters are killed or ejected from select Labor leaders to run the country they won't.

Fixed that for you so that it reflects the truth on the ground.  Despite the truth being understood by most Israelis, a day is coming when they will sign a "peace deal" because they have no better choice left.  The Bible refers to it as "making a covenant with death".  It will be the sign that the whole world is about to explode.  Maybe even your little place in Paradise.  

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third_eye
10 hours ago, aztek said:

and what do you expect will happen???

It would make a fool of those that makes fun of their customs ...

Quote

 

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In Judaism, shaving with a razor is a prohibition that is based on rabbinic interpretation of ... According to biblical scholars, the shaving of hair, particularly of the corners of the beard, was originally a mourning custom; the behaviour appears, ...

 

~

 

~

9 hours ago, aztek said:

lol, a bunch of self hating  clowns, no different than white liberals hating white man,  no one takes them seriously here, do you think anyone in Israel takes these guys seriously?? lmao. in fact most none orthodox jews in Israel do not like them to say the least,

That does not makes them any less a Jew does it ?

~

 

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RoofGardener
8 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

If the Palestinians are in control of Area C then why is Israel still building settlements?  The simple answer is that THEY ARE NOT IN CONTROL.  The refugee camps are a comfortable excuse to suggest they are not within Israel and to wash their hands from accepting a generation of Palestinians that were evicted from lands that are now within Israeli territory.  By claiming they are in Palestinian controlled territory is a lie and a deceitful one as well. 

To go along with your logic Israel should totally withdraw from the West Bank and let the Palestinians have total sovereignty over their land but this isn't going to happen is it because the strong Right Wing Conservatives in Israel have bigger dreams?  In fact, we saw what happened anytime an Israeli leader tried to negotiate an agreement, Rabin got murdered and Barak was thrown out of office. While all along the settlers keep on settling, which is a clear breach of the Oslo Accords Rabin got murdered for.

I've already said that I think the settlement expansion is wrong. 

Now... to the meat of things. Are you truly suggesting that the Israeli's are forcing Palestinians to remain in refugee camps within the West Bank ? 

The Oslo accords did not - I believe - mention settlers ? (although it WOULD have done if the PLO hadn't breached its core terms, and allowed the process to continue). 

As for the issue of sovereignty; it is more an issue of security. Or are you suggesting that the PLO doesn't (and didn't, at the time of Oslo) organise terrorist attacks from within the Area C ? 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Black Red Devil
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I've already said that I think the settlement expansion is wrong. 

Now... to the meat of things. Are you truly suggesting that the Israeli's are forcing Palestinians to remain in refugee camps within the West Bank ? 

The Oslo accords did not - I believe - mention settlers ? (although it WOULD have done if the PLO hadn't breached its core terms, and allowed the process to continue). 

As for the issue of sovereignty; it is more an issue of security. Or are you suggesting that the PLO doesn't (and didn't, at the time of Oslo) organise terrorist attacks from within the Area C ? 

Every discussion was about land, sovereign status, right of return and Jerusalem.  Israel has failed to concede anything to this day and on top of that they've kept on allowing settlers to build in the West Bank which is the reason the PLO previously and the PA nowadays have walked away from peace talks.  Israel has been in the grip of Right Wing parties who have shown no interest in peace because of their Zionist motives.  The only time any serious step for peace was taken by an Israeli he got murdered by a Right Wing fanatic. 

No, Palestinians shouldn't be in refugee camps, they should be living in their own state and territory but unfortunately most of the lands they were living in are occupied by Israelis after their houses were bulldozed.  Basically they have nowhere to go and the funny thing is that no matter how much Israel land grabs there are still some 3 million Arabs living in the West Bank.  There was some talk a while back by Right Wing Israeli senators to annex the West Bank but it wouldn't fit well with their ideological aspirations of making Israel a Jewish State with all those Arabs.  They'll never get rid of that thorn in their side unless they're prepared to commit a genocide, Nazi Germany style.  There is only one solution, a two state solution but the true peace-breakers, the Right Wing Zionist fanatics, will never go for that.

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Black Red Devil
10 hours ago, and then said:

Fixed that for you so that it reflects the truth on the ground.  Despite the truth being understood by most Israelis, a day is coming when they will sign a "peace deal" because they have no better choice left.  The Bible refers to it as "making a covenant with death".  It will be the sign that the whole world is about to explode.  Maybe even your little place in Paradise.  

You must have mistaken me for some fanatical Bible thumper.

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1 minute ago, Black Red Devil said:

You must have mistaken me for some fanatical Bible thumper.

No.  Not even after it thumps you in the head.

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

Every discussion was about land, sovereign status, right of return and Jerusalem.  Israel has failed to concede anything to this day and on top of that they've kept on allowing settlers to build in the West Bank which is the reason the PLO previously and the PA nowadays have walked away from peace talks.  Israel has been in the grip of Right Wing parties who have shown no interest in peace because of their Zionist motives.  The only time any serious step for peace was taken by an Israeli he got murdered by a Right Wing fanatic. 

No, Palestinians shouldn't be in refugee camps, they should be living in their own state and territory but unfortunately most of the lands they were living in are occupied by Israelis after their houses were bulldozed.  Basically they have nowhere to go and the funny thing is that no matter how much Israel land grabs there are still some 3 million Arabs living in the West Bank.  There was some talk a while back by Right Wing Israeli senators to annex the West Bank but it wouldn't fit well with their ideological aspirations of making Israel a Jewish State with all those Arabs.  They'll never get rid of that thorn in their side unless they're prepared to commit a genocide, Nazi Germany style.  There is only one solution, a two state solution but the true peace-breakers, the Right Wing Zionist fanatics, will never go for that.

In regard the first paragraph; I agree. However, you should acknowledge that Israel has made  MANY concessions towards this goal. They fully engaged with the Oslo process, and went further than this with the Camp David 2000 offer. The PLO walked away simply because they do NOT want peace. Recall that if the two sides made a peace agreement, the PLO would have lost its reason to exist, and would likely lose the political power they have in their current fascist police state. 

In regard your second paragraph; you still haven't acknowledged that it is the PLO that lock Palestinians up in refugee camps, and refuse to allow them to integrate into general Palestinian civic society, and NOT the Israeli's. 

I'll grant you that the way forwards is a two-state solution, with secured borders. I'll also grant you that some right-wing Israeli fanatics don't want this. But then, neither do the Islamist fascists within the PLO. They are a marriage made in hell. Sadly, the more Israeli's that the PLO kill, and the more that they break their negotiating promises, the greater the tendency of Israeli citizens to vote for "strong" leaders that are - usually - right-wing zealots.  

If the PLO produced a "Ghandi" as a leader, then he could bring the whole sorry situation to a peaceful resolution within a year or two. Assuming he wasn't assassinated first. 

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aztek
7 hours ago, third_eye said:

 

That does not makes them any less a Jew does it ?

~

 

depends who you ask, in the eyes of some in Israel it absolutely does.  and i am 100% sure they consider anyone who does not belong to their sect a lesser jew.

maybe you should familiarize yourself better with Jewish traditions and customs before you argue them with a Jew, who has been to Israel, and who has family there.

Edited by aztek
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third_eye
Just now, aztek said:

depends who you ask, in the eyes of some in Israel it absolutely does

So what makes a Jew , a Jew ?

~

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aztek
4 minutes ago, third_eye said:

So what makes a Jew , a Jew ?

~

a Jewish mother. lol. that is as far as official status,, but how much of a jew you are depends on who  you talking to.

Edited by aztek
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third_eye
Just now, aztek said:

a Jewish mother. lol. that is as far as official

So do you know if their mothers are not Jewesses ?

~

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aztek
Just now, third_eye said:

So do you know if their mothers are not Jewesses ?

~

what do you think?

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third_eye
Just now, aztek said:

what do you think?

You;re the one that made those accusations, you never really thought that through did you ?

~

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aztek
6 minutes ago, third_eye said:

You;re the one that made those accusations, you never really thought that through did you ?

~

lmao. I sure did, unlike you, the answer is up there, and was there before you asked a question,  but you were never interested in an answer, you are trolling.

Edited by aztek
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third_eye
Just now, aztek said:

lmao. I sure did, unlike you, the answer is up there, and was there before you asked a question,  but you were never interested in an answer, you are trolling.

Nope, just wanted to know if the Jewish part of your family considers you a Jew ...

~

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aztek
3 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Nope, just wanted to know if the Jewish part of your family considers you a Jew ...

~

then why didn't you ask that? like I said you are not interested in an answer, you are trolling, and you just made this b.s. excuse up.  I have 0 doubt you do not care what my family thinks of me, all you care is to be a troll

Edited by aztek

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third_eye
Just now, aztek said:

then why didn't you ask that? like I said you are not interested in an answer, you are trolling, and you just made this b.s. excuse up.  I have 0 doubt you do not care what my family things of me, all you care is to be a troll

Nope, I care very much, so are you a lesser Jew or more Jew than the rebel Rabbis ?

~

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