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Servator

Prison costs and capital punishment

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Servator

LET'S FACE REALITY, OUR PUNISHMENT SYSTEM SUCKS IN THE U.S.A AND NEEDS A HARSH OVERHALL. Here is an example of what I am getting at, As of October 4, 2018, there were 2,705 death row inmates in the United States. The average cost of incarceration in the United States is determined by different methods. It costs anywhere between $20,000 and $40,000 per year to house inmates in federal and state correctional facilities.  SO to split the difference at $30,000 per prisoner it will cost the tax payers $81,150,000 to keep these scumbags alive per year. Now if they are convicted beyond a shadow of doubt to be put to death wouldn't a Simple swing on a rope be a whole lot cheaper and it would also give a visual aide to would be Murders/pedophiles/Rapist/Drug-dealers of their future. BUT no the 81+ million needs to be spent to keep them alive, I would think the money would be better off to improve humanity. SO what's your take on this.  You a Hardcore No Nonsense or a Mushy no matter what a person does they should have all rights type of person.

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Servator said:

SO what's your take on this.

Our justice system is too broken for us to execute prisoners IMO so Im with Ben Franlin et al.

Quote

Benjamin Franklin stated it as, "it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer".[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation

 

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Servator

Perhaps in Franklins time his quote would apply, but NOW not so much. I did say BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT, you know if a person is seen by dozens and on video the just get the rope ready.

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Farmer77
Just now, Servator said:

Perhaps in Franklins time his quote would apply, but NOW not so much. I did say BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT, you know if a person is seen by dozens and on video the just get the rope ready.

I think that I would agree with executions in cases where there is multiple eyewitness testimony combined with video and DNA evidence. Anything short of that and im just too cynical to trust lives to the system.

 

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Likely Guy
48 minutes ago, Servator said:

LET'S FACE REALITY, OUR PUNISHMENT SYSTEM SUCKS IN THE U.S.A AND NEEDS A HARSH OVERHALL. Here is an example of what I am getting at, As of October 4, 2018, there were 2,705 death row inmates in the United States. The average cost of incarceration in the United States is determined by different methods. It costs anywhere between $20,000 and $40,000 per year to house inmates in federal and state correctional facilities.  SO to split the difference at $30,000 per prisoner it will cost the tax payers $81,150,000 to keep these scumbags alive per year. Now if they are convicted beyond a shadow of doubt to be put to death wouldn't a Simple swing on a rope be a whole lot cheaper and it would also give a visual aide to would be Murders/pedophiles/Rapist/Drug-dealers of their future. BUT no the 81+ million needs to be spent to keep them alive, I would think the money would be better off to improve humanity. SO what's your take on this.  You a Hardcore No Nonsense or a Mushy no matter what a person does they should have all rights type of person.

Of those 2,705 death row inmates, how many were convicted "beyond a shadow of a doubt"?

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Servator

WHO knows, but since they are on death Row the odds are they are guilty and are still being taken care of by the work of those who live a decent law abiding life.

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Setton
1 hour ago, Servator said:

Perhaps in Franklins time his quote would apply, but NOW not so much. I did say BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT, you know if a person is seen by dozens and on video the just get the rope ready.

And you'd probably be able to execute 1 out of those 2000+ under those conditions. 

And overhauling the law would probably cost more than you'd save. 

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Setton
Just now, Servator said:

WHO knows, but since they are on death Row the odds are they are guilty and are still being taken care of by the work of those who live a decent law abiding life.

I'd hope the standard for executing someone is a little higher than 'odds are they are guilty'. 

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Farmer77
6 minutes ago, Servator said:

WHO knows, but since they are on death Row the odds are they are guilty and are still being taken care of by the work of those who live a decent law abiding life.

There are a ton of statistics out there to add perspective and maybe make some folks care. This article about 2015 is a great example:

Jailed but Innocent: Record Number of People Exonerated in 2015

Quote

A record-breaking number of people were exonerated in 2015 — freed after serving time in American prisons for crimes they did not commit.

In all, 149 people spent an average of 15 years in prison before being cleared last year, according to a new report (.pdf) out Wednesday from the National Registry of Exonerations, a project at the University of Michigan Law School.

The convictions ranged from lower level offenses, such as 47 drug crimes, to major felonies, including 54 murder convictions that were overturned. Five of the convicts were awaiting execution, and were saved last year when courts ruled they didn't belong in the prison in the first place.
 

Of the people wrongly convicted for homicides, the report notes, "more than two-thirds were minorities, including half who were African American."

Twenty-seven of the innocent convicts falsely confessed to their crimes, a group comprised mainly of children or the mentally handicapped, according to the report.

 

 

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Servator

I understand that most peoples beliefs these days concerning Execution are soft and pathetic and that the criminals have more rights than the victim it appears. You and most likely more are going to whine about 'What if that one in 2000 was innocent, but for this one we must continue to support the other 1999 for the rest of their natural lives, just because they have a HUMAN body"  HEY reality check life isn't perfect and some innocents do end up biting it. If a Person commits the crime and have no regard to another persons life, then they automatically become useless to society and the human society and should be put down and turned into fertilizer so they would at least serve one purpose in their useless lives. You Get it yet, I have ZERO compassion for MURDERS/RAPIST/PEDEPHILES/DRUGS PUSHERS, they serve no purpose and forfeit their lives by their actions. 

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Servator

FARMER 77, Good info and most likely it still stands in 2018, I am referring to those who are GUILTY of their crimes by evidence 100%, you know Witness/DNA/Video, not the What IF type of convictions.

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Farmer77
Just now, Servator said:

HEY reality check life isn't perfect and some innocents do end up biting it. If a Person commits the crime and have no regard to another persons life, then they automatically become useless to society and the human society and should be put down and turned into fertilizer so they would at least serve one purpose in their useless lives.

But if an innocent person is wrongly executed isnt that a crime? Why wouldnt you consider that murder?

 

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Servator

YES it most likely would be, but face it our society isn't perfect and innocent people will at times pay the price. It's been like that since human society began and will most likely continue to do so. But if you can get ride of 2000 useless burdens to society and yes 1 may not be guilty then Hey sorry bud, $hit happens.

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Dark_Grey
3 minutes ago, Servator said:

YES it most likely would be, but face it our society isn't perfect and innocent people will at times pay the price. It's been like that since human society began and will most likely continue to do so. But if you can get ride of 2000 useless burdens to society and yes 1 may not be guilty then Hey sorry bud, $hit happens.

Death row inmate cleared by DNA evidence after 22 years in prison
Death row inmate cleared after 30 years in prison

Congratulations: you just snuffed out 2 innocent lives with your program. 

I agree that the cost of housing and feeding a prisoner for 30(!) years is hefty but it boils down to two questions:

Do some people deserve to die?

and

What is human life worth to you?

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Servator

2 versus thousands, if one had the opportunity to DELETE from society 2000 criminals and not counting giving the THOUSANDS of those who have suffered at their hands some peace, Yes it would be worth it in the long run. SO much more worse has been transgressed upon humans throughout history, that doing such a thing wouldn't be a drop in the bucket. My point boils down too, IF future criminals saw what would TRULY happen to them in a VISUAL GRAFIC punishment then wouldn't you think their would be less crimes, while at the same time releasing a lot of bourdon upon society. 

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Dark_Grey
14 minutes ago, Servator said:

2 versus thousands, if one had the opportunity to DELETE from society 2000 criminals and not counting giving the THOUSANDS of those who have suffered at their hands some peace, Yes it would be worth it in the long run. SO much more worse has been transgressed upon humans throughout history, that doing such a thing wouldn't be a drop in the bucket. My point boils down too, IF future criminals saw what would TRULY happen to them in a VISUAL GRAFIC punishment then wouldn't you think their would be less crimes, while at the same time releasing a lot of bourdon upon society. 

2 that I pulled up within a minute. There are long lists of names of those who have been cleared while on death row. It's not an isolated incident. 

My point is that death row inmates are not always guilty. Unless you have a crystal ball, you don't know how many of the inmates on death row actually deserve to be there. You are playing God by gambling on most of them being guilty. That's a dangerous game to play.

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Servator

True on a dangerous game to play, but the way society is now and in the foreseeable future isn't any better something has to give or all is lost. Perhaps giving the common man more rights to protect themselves without worrying about repercussions from being sued by the criminal by a Blood Sucking Lawyer would be one way to set things on a road to a better society.

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Gromdor

Well, they are on death row which means they are slated to die.  I think you just have issue with our constitution and due process.

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preacherman76
2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Death row inmate cleared by DNA evidence after 22 years in prison
Death row inmate cleared after 30 years in prison

Congratulations: you just snuffed out 2 innocent lives with your program. 

I agree that the cost of housing and feeding a prisoner for 30(!) years is hefty but it boils down to two questions:

Do some people deserve to die?

and

What is human life worth to you?

I think some people do deserve to die.

Like it’s been expressed here already though, I don’t have enough faith in the justice system to guarantee that the right person in every circumstance is the one who actually committed the crime. 

If even one person is wrongly convicted and executed, and that definitely happens, then I say do away with the whole idea. 

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RavenHawk

Let's just put them on a boat and ship them to Australia...  Oh wait, that's been done.  How much would it cost to send them to Mars to establish a colony?  Set up a mining operation and ship back raw materials?  They can repay their debt that way.

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

 How much would it cost to send them to Mars to establish a colony?  Set up a mining operation and ship back raw materials?  They can repay their debt that way.

I would be on board with that. We used to offer the USMC as an alternative to jail why not the 'space force'? 

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RavenHawk
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

I would be on board with that. We used to offer the USMC as an alternative to jail why not the 'space force'? 

The American Deep Space Legion.

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Myles
On 10/12/2018 at 11:20 AM, Farmer77 said:

I think that I would agree with executions in cases where there is multiple eyewitness testimony combined with video and DNA evidence. Anything short of that and im just too cynical to trust lives to the system.

 

I feel the same.   It's have to be  absolute proof.   

 

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Black Red Devil
On 10/13/2018 at 4:05 AM, Servator said:

WHO knows, but since they are on death Row the odds are they are guilty and are still being taken care of by the work of those who live a decent law abiding life.

:lol:

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Black Red Devil
On 10/13/2018 at 2:07 AM, Servator said:

LET'S FACE REALITY, OUR PUNISHMENT SYSTEM SUCKS IN THE U.S.A AND NEEDS A HARSH OVERHALL. Here is an example of what I am getting at, As of October 4, 2018, there were 2,705 death row inmates in the United States. The average cost of incarceration in the United States is determined by different methods. It costs anywhere between $20,000 and $40,000 per year to house inmates in federal and state correctional facilities.  SO to split the difference at $30,000 per prisoner it will cost the tax payers $81,150,000 to keep these scumbags alive per year. Now if they are convicted beyond a shadow of doubt to be put to death wouldn't a Simple swing on a rope be a whole lot cheaper and it would also give a visual aide to would be Murders/pedophiles/Rapist/Drug-dealers of their future. BUT no the 81+ million needs to be spent to keep them alive, I would think the money would be better off to improve humanity. SO what's your take on this.  You a Hardcore No Nonsense or a Mushy no matter what a person does they should have all rights type of person.

Yep, it is actually a fact that it costs more to put people to death than for example life in prison but that's not what you were aiming at.  Correct answer is abolish capital punishment to save money and don't try to shortcut the execution because killing someone is a big thing.

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