Migrant caravan to US grows to over 1500

[Socio]

Why caravan migrants wave Honduran flags and burn tires in front of U.S. embassy

Quote

Waving the flag of the country they're desperate not to be sent back to, and burning tires in front of the Tegucigalpa-located embassy of the nation they're supposedly desperate to live in, the Honduras caravan migrants, their organizers and their supporters don't exactly come off as big fans of the United States.

***

And as it happened, it was led by the Guatemala-arrested-and-deported organizerof the caravan, the far-left Honduran politician and supporter of Hugo Chavez and Mel "cowboy hat" Zelaya, Bartolo Fuentes.

***

The caravan is exposing the ugly underbelly of what it's really about -- an invasion of sorts, a conquest, a bid to lay gringo low - rather than a legitimate interest in legally immigrating and assimilating into the American melting pot. The only thing such anti-American haters could possibly want in demanding to be let in, legally or not, seems to be benefits, courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer, and to stick it into law-abiding America's faces that they're the ones who determine what the law is, not the Americans they hate.

***

The Associated Press reports that the group has gotten into Mexico and has since swelled to 5,000.  Al Jazeera reports that "All of Honduras wants to come here."

Like I said in a previous post this is a political stunt these people are just naive tools, a means to an end, a nefarious end.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Socio

[lost_shaman]

On 10/19/2018 at 7:09 AM, Farmer77 said:

He's talking tough but the results are questionable

Yes, because a liberal District Judge said we can't detain children and so the "parents" get released to. So children become the "get out of jail free" pawns thanks to liberal judges! It's just sad we can't enforce our own laws and that children end up being the pawns in a very dangerous and nasty game, but you won't hear a word of empathy from liberals about these kids until they are on U.S. soil! 

[skliss]

5 hours ago, Socio said:

Why caravan migrants wave Honduran flags and burn tires in front of U.S. embassy

Like I said in a previous post this is a political stunt these people are just naive tools, a means to an end, a nefarious end.

I have mentioned before that I listen to a talk radio station out of Akron. One of the personalities has a legal immigrant friend who calls in daily to talk with him about what's being said on the Spanish channels in interviews and news reports about this situation. These caravan people wave their flags because they proudly don't want to become US citizens. They think there should be no border, that they should be allowed to vote immediately and be able to cross back into Mexico whenever they want to after they set up their benefits.

[lost_shaman]

17 minutes ago, skliss said:

I have mentioned before that I listen to a talk radio station out of Akron. One of the personalities has a legal immigrant friend who calls in daily to talk with him about what's being said on the Spanish channels in interviews and news reports about this situation. These caravan people wave their flags because they proudly don't want to become US citizens. They think there should be no border, that they should be allowed to vote immediately and be able to cross back into Mexico whenever they want to after they set up their benefits.

Right. They are being told that it is their "human right" to "our" U.S. tax dollars. 

[F3SS]

Yea seriously. Why don't they demand their "human rights" from Honduras? Why the hell should it be our problem?

We already give them 100m dollars a year plus untold charitable giving from everyday citizens. Yet they'll try to march across our border by the thousands waving their flag and lighting toxic fires outside our embassy. And we're the pricks in this situation? Ha! Good grief, the left is going to lose so bad for supporting this lunacy. So stupid.

[Eldorado]

Update:

"We have sunburn. We have blisters. But we got here. Our strength is greater than Trump's threats," migrant Britany Hernández told AFP news agency.

It is expected to take weeks before the caravan reaches the US-Mexico border, according to US media.

One of the closest border crossings in Brownsville, Texas is still over 1,000 miles (1,600 km) away from Tapachula.

The last leg of their journey will also have to wait until Mexico processes the group, and asylum claims can take up to 45 days.

Full update: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-45933845

[Princess Bride]

On 10/19/2018 at 10:34 PM, lost_shaman said:

How can you blame poor impoverished people for wanting a better life? That said, people in Central and South America almost always vote for Socialists leftists governments. Venezuela is a perfect example, they had a decent middle class and voted in a Socialist Government that promised them more and free services and it made them all feel better for about a decade and then the downhill slide started and they voted for more Socialism to help and they got it... They got free stuff and cheap stuff until the money started running out, and now they are at rock bottom. All the money is gone, all the people except those in Power are all equally poor! Then they migrate because they are starving and where ever they go be it other South and Central American Countries or the U.S. they still want Socialism and if given the right to they will vote for it again and again. 

I didn't blame anyone for wanting a better life. Why did you read that into what I posted? Why did you attempt to put those kinds of sentiments into my words?

Honestly, I've never seen anything even remotely socialist in Honduras. That place is pure Capitalist and Ogliarchy. There is lots of patronage and crime there. The remnants of aristocracy are still there.

The people are telling us the problem is they are overrun by drug cartels and the crime they exact upon the peasants there.

Socialism isn't the problem,

It never gets mentioned by any of the people fleeing Honduras. 

As I said, it doesn't exist there. 

mismanagement is...

Honestly, lack of work ethic is... (believe me, in Honduras that is a huge issue),

Lack of basic literacy and sanitation is,

Lack of infrastructure is,

Lack of investors is,

Lack of resources or the ability to acquire resources is...

Lack of trading partners is....

Insufficient distribution systems to get their goods to market is...

The rest of the world, I mean the entire world except that paradigm of Capliatist glory, New Guinea, has some degree of socialism like fire departments, schools, roads, libraries, medicine, etc. So don't act like it's foreign to the U.S. because it's not and never has been. Yet, we still stand. 

You know what I'm tired of?

I'm tired of all this military spending, being the world's policemen, and weapons expenditures. This whole standing army is pretty socialist to, btw. It seems the problem is the focus. What upholds patriarchy is permissible but ps helps everyone else equally isn't.

I'm also tired of all the foreign aid we give decade in and decade out with absolutely no freaking results whatsoever. Some others have mentioned that problem on this thread. I agree with them. I also we need legal immigration. Maybe we also need to reconsider this whole refugee thing and the agreement we have with the U.N. on that. Just a thought.

Finally, I'm tired of the food aid we give without birth control to offset it. 
The Christian Right and some economic Republicans don't want to support birth control programs but bit*h when the effects of it land on our borders. The GOP refuses to support common-sense family planning and leaning on the RCC running these third world countries. Well, cry me a river.

 

Well that's my .02 for today. I just want to say I'm not going to be on here arguing or debating too much. I used to do that and it made me sick. I don't do that anymore.

[aztek]

none of it makes them entitled to come to USA and demand " their natural human rights" which means free things.

if they put even half the effort into fixing their country as they do to come here illegally, they would not have to go anywhere.

bottom line they are not coming here, it is not the first caravan that will be stopped, one way or another

Edited October 23, 2018 by aztek

[Princess Bride]

On 10/21/2018 at 1:58 PM, Tatetopa said:

Again, a touch of reality.  Read about recent  ICE raids in Texas trailer manufacturers.  They say they MUST employ illegals because Americans don't want to do the dirty dangerous jobs for what they pay. In fact one of them was so brazen as to say that if the Govt. didn't find a way to allow guest workers, they would move their plant to Mexico. 

Some  down there in Texas don't like illegals, but people with money to spend and jobs to do seem to like them fine.   I will bet you  those business owners are not bleeding heart, snowflake Democrats, they are By-God stay out of our business and let us make money Republicans.

4

They say they MUST employ illegals because Americans don't want to do the dirty dangerous jobs for what they pay.

We have rules and regulations. We can change our agreements with trade partners and that includes Mexico and China.

There was a time they paid enough and were OSHA compliant so that Americans happily worked those kinds of jobs.

They can go to Mexico and if that becomes a huge problem we can tell Mexico to go to hell.

Honestly, we need to figure out what jobs Americans really won't do no matter what, including for more pay, and then figure out how many of those jobs there are and issue work visas accordingly. I'm talking enough of them so that none of those workers are illegal for jobs that absolutely must be done here. Also, any employers hiring unauthorized immigrants for their jobs for too little pay, benefits, and safety need to be cracked down on. They used to get in huge trouble when I was a kid and it worked. Now they get their wrists slapped and nothing gets better.

Remember, we can thank Bill Clinton for this mess, btw.

[aztek]

it is not uncommon in nyc to see help wanted signs in a window of a businesses in Spanish, and they looking exclusively for illegals, they will never hire a citizen, or anyone with papers.

as far as pay, those days when they worked for few bucks an hour are gone. you pick up an illegal from home depot parking lot, they will not even talk to you for less than 12 bucks. at least in nyc.

[CeresExpo2000]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:54 AM, lost_shaman said:

I'm glad the Administration is threatening to cut of foreign aid money to these countries that are allowing this. I'd like to see an even harsher Policy where we charge these countries for every red cent we spend apprehending and deporting these illegal migrants and whatever money we have to spend on them while they are here before deportation. 

MS-13 sneaking in also!

[Tatetopa]

9 hours ago, Princess Bride said:

Honestly, we need to figure out what jobs Americans really won't do no matter what, including for more pay, and then figure out how many of those jobs there are and issue work visas accordingly. I'm talking enough of them so that none of those workers are illegal for jobs that absolutely must be done here. Also, any employers hiring unauthorized immigrants for their jobs for too little pay, benefits, and safety need to be cracked down on. They used to get in huge trouble when I was a kid and it worked. Now they get their wrists slapped and nothing gets better.

well said.

[aztek]

lol, are you being serious?? there is no such job. 

Quote

 Americans really won't do no matter what, including for more pay,

who do you think Americans are?   there are working Americans that will do any job, and there are freeloaders that wont do any job, 

[Tatetopa]

9 hours ago, Princess Bride said:

We have rules and regulations. We can change our agreements with trade partners and that includes Mexico and China.

There was a time they paid enough and were OSHA compliant so that Americans happily worked those kinds of jobs.

That is one of the parts of the new trade agreement, that a percentage of workers in auto plants get paid $15 dollars an hour.  To be fair to the trailer people, they say they were paying $22 an hour.  I have no idea how much a welder can make in Texas, that seems pretty good for the area of the country I live in.

 

I think you are right about guest workers and quotas.  With unemployment so low, most of the people left are unemployable.  American industry might need guest workers.  That could be a legal way to get people for a definite purpose for a limited amount of time.

[Tatetopa]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

who do you think Americans are?   there are working Americans that will do any job, and there are freeloaders that wont do any job, 

I think it is a little more complicated.  Maybe somebody is willing to do any job but can't weld.  A lot of companies need results now, they don't have time to train inexperienced people.    I think you are in Texas, what is going rate for welders?  If there are plenty of jobs for $30 dollars for a good welder in oil fields, why would they take a $22 dollar one?  

At the current unemployment rate, under 4%, you got to figure a percent or so of those are injured or disabled. That leaves 3% of workers not working.  That does not seem like a very big freeloader problem.

[F3SS]

21 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

That is one of the parts of the new trade agreement, that a percentage of workers in auto plants get paid $15 dollars an hour.  To be fair to the trailer people, they say they were paying $22 an hour. 

15 dollars on the books with benefits costs a lot more than 22 under the table, no payroll taxes, no workers comp which is how I assume a crew full of illegals is likely to operate.

[Trenix]

10 hours ago, Princess Bride said:

They say they MUST employ illegals because Americans don't want to do the dirty dangerous jobs for what they pay.

We have rules and regulations. We can change our agreements with trade partners and that includes Mexico and China.

There was a time they paid enough and were OSHA compliant so that Americans happily worked those kinds of jobs.

They can go to Mexico and if that becomes a huge problem we can tell Mexico to go to hell.

Honestly, we need to figure out what jobs Americans really won't do no matter what, including for more pay, and then figure out how many of those jobs there are and issue work visas accordingly. I'm talking enough of them so that none of those workers are illegal for jobs that absolutely must be done here. Also, any employers hiring unauthorized immigrants for their jobs for too little pay, benefits, and safety need to be cracked down on. They used to get in huge trouble when I was a kid and it worked. Now they get their wrists slapped and nothing gets better.

Remember, we can thank Bill Clinton for this mess, btw.

Wow, you're so wrong....

Illegals are hired because they get paid under the table money and no benefits by law have to be provided (cause they're illegal, duh). And that's not all of it, just the basics. Don't ask me how I know.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Trenix

[aztek]

3 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

I think it is a little more complicated. Maybe somebody is willing to do any job but can't weld.

  there is a will there is a way.  if he is willing, he'll  learn, and most likely faster than paperwork\background check for work visa.   

Quote

A lot of companies need results now, they don't have time to train inexperienced people.    I think you are in Texas, what is going rate for welders? 

 

i'm not in tx, so i have no idea,

Quote

 If there are plenty of jobs for $30 dollars for a good welder in oil fields, why would they take a $22 dollar one?  

 

maybe because it involves being on a drilling platform? or hundreds of other things. 

 

 

[Gromdor]

1 hour ago, F3SS said:

15 dollars on the books with benefits costs a lot more than 22 under the table, no payroll taxes, no workers comp which is how I assume a crew full of illegals is likely to operate.

There is also wording in there to encourage collective bargaining in addition to the $15 minimum wage.  Trump actually pushed for unions in Mexico with the NAFTA 2.0.

 

[Gromdor]

10 hours ago, CeresExpo2000 said:

MS-13 sneaking in also!

Sneaking back you mean?  MS-13 was made in the USA.

[aztek]

9 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Sneaking back you mean?  MS-13 was made in the USA.

lmao,  are you sure?

if you compare it to math, you are stating 2 plus 2 equals 2

Edited October 24, 2018 by aztek

[Gromdor]

8 minutes ago, aztek said:

lmao,  are you sure?

if you compare it to math, you are stating 2 plus 2 equals 2

Born in LA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13

[aztek]

6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Born in LA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13

The gang is traced back to Central American (primarily Salvadoran) refugees in Los Angeles in the 1980s. MS-13 began among the members fleeing a U.S.-backed civil war at home.

 The group is said to have leadership in El Salvador, and the FBI reports the group's influence continues to expand in the U.S.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-04-18/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-ms-13-gang

 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by aztek

[Gromdor]

Just now, aztek said:

The gang is traced back to Central American (primarily Salvadoran) refugees in Los Angeles in the 1980s. MS-13 began among the members fleeing a U.S.-backed civil war at home.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-04-18/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-ms-13-gang

 

 

Yup,  it's members became criminalized here in the US and we deported/exported them back to El Salvador.  But the gang itself is born in the good old USA.

[aztek]

3 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Yup,  it's members became criminalized here in the US and we deported/exported them back to El Salvador.  But the gang itself is born in the good old USA.

ok.  so has ms13 in LA originated independently from ms13 in ny, or as one? cuz we have ms13 here since mid 80s