Migrant caravan to US grows to over 1500

[Gromdor]

2 hours ago, aztek said:

ok.  so has ms13 in LA originated independently from ms13 in ny, or as one? cuz we have ms13 here since mid 80s

 

As one.  MS-13 is in every state now.  They've had nearly 40 years to grow, after all.  Estimates put them to be around 10,000 here in the US.  Most of the ones here in the US are US citizens as well: https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/ice-gang-arrests-operation/index.html

Of course illegals make for a fertile ground for recruitment.  It's not like they can turn to the police for protection.

[RoofGardener]

On the BBC thismorning, they put the Caravan size at 7000. Was this a mis-read ???? 

[Eldorado]

3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

On the BBC thismorning, they put the Caravan size at 7000. Was this a mis-read ???? 

Looks ike an accurate number....

"5,000 migrants camped out in Chiapas last night and resumed their march today

Two more groups of 1,000 people in each are reported on their way too"

Source: https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/5000-migrants-camped-out-in-chiapas-last-night/

Who do we believe though in this Age of Fakery, Exaggeration and Pretence?

[aztek]

Just now, Gromdor said:

 

Of course illegals make for a fertile ground for recruitment.  It's not like they can turn to the police for protection.

riigght so it's not their fault then, got it,

[Gromdor]

51 minutes ago, aztek said:

riigght so it's not their fault then, got it,

Who said anything about blame? 

[aztek]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Who said anything about blame? 

when you say it is not like they can go to police for protection, it looks like  you implying that they had no other choice but to join  gangs. that is the impression i got when reading your post.

Edited October 24, 2018 by aztek

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, aztek said:

when you say it is not like they can go to police for protection, it looks like  you implying that they had no other choice but to join  gangs. that is the impression i got when reading your post.

Well, it's just a simple fact of the matter: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/01/01/the-teens-trapped-between-a-gang-and-the-law

You know, part of the reason why none of these problems are ever solved is because people are too busy trying to place or escape blame.  They never address the issue.

 

[aztek]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Well, it's just a simple fact of the matter: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/01/01/the-teens-trapped-between-a-gang-and-the-law

You know, part of the reason why none of these problems are ever solved is because people are too busy trying to place or escape blame.  They never address the issue.

 

what problems? yea they would not be between the law and gangs if they did not put themselves in that position,  if they did not illegally come here, so here is the issue, and trump is actually addressing it,

you actually just made a great argument that supports my point,    if illegals are easy catch for gang recruiters, and have no other choice but to join gangs, we need to make sure they do not come here. a very simple solution. every one is a potential gang member

Edited October 24, 2018 by aztek

[Gromdor]

4 minutes ago, aztek said:

what problems? yea they would not be between the law and gangs if they did not put themselves in that position,  if they did not illegally come here, so here is the issue, and trump is actually addressing it,

See, right there your argument is full of blame yet doesn't address it other than saying Trump is taking care of it.  I would have to say that Trump's solution just seems to be feeding the problem.  Otherwise why the panic over this caravan?

[aztek]

55 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

See, right there your argument is full of blame yet doesn't address it other than saying Trump is taking care of it.  I would have to say that Trump's solution just seems to be feeding the problem.  Otherwise why the panic over this caravan?

nothing wrong in blaming those who fully deserve it. they are the problem plain and simple. you call it blame, i call it pointing at people responsible. especially since every one of them is a potential gangster,

Edited October 24, 2018 by aztek

[Gromdor]

53 minutes ago, aztek said:

nothing wrong in blaming those who fully deserve it. they are the problem plain and simple. you call it blame, i call it pointing at people responsible. especially since every one of them is a potential gangster,

I have to say I often work with engineers with a similar mindset to you.  I'll take them and point at a problem and they will respond with, "If the other contractor did it right, we wouldn't have this issue."  I patiently sit there and explain to them that I don't care if it was their fault or not.  They obviously didn't do it right and now it is you and I's problem. It is how it is and you will have do deal with it.  Maybe you can lay down some ground work to deal with the root issue that caused the initial problem for future issues.  But laying blame on someone else for what is fundamentally a problem of yours isn't going to solve anything.

Taking it into context of MS-13.  They are here, they are killing people where you live, they are growing off American and immigrant youth, and our immigration policy aids in their recruitment.  You can blame whoever you want, but at the end of the day, it's you and your family's problem.  MS-13 certainly doesn't have a problem with how things are. 

[aztek]

Just now, Gromdor said:

I have to say I often work with engineers with a similar mindset to you.  I'll take them and point at a problem and they will respond with, "If the other contractor did it right, we wouldn't have this issue."

not sure what your point is.  very different situations, in one someone does not do his job well, in other people illegally come to my country and become gangsters, so yea, i want the supply of potential gangsters stopped.   those who already here we'll deal as well, in a different manner. there are more than 1 issue here.

btw if a Sheetrock guy did not do a good job, i will either call him back, or call my Sheetrock guy and send the first one the bill for finishing his work, 

Edited October 24, 2018 by aztek

[Stardrive]

[Eldorado]

Third caravan on it's way to America!  Number of marching migrants soon to rise to 10000!

"A third caravan of migrants is expected to leave Central America within the next week, which could bring the total number of people escaping poverty and violence by making the northward trek to nearly 10,000.

The third wave, believed to have been inspired by the caravan now traveling through Chiapas, is scheduled to leave El Salvador on October 28 and cross the border into via Tecún Umán, Guatemala, according to one report.

Organized on a Facebook group called El Salvador Emigrates for a Better Future, the caravan’s communications on social media are being monitored by the United States Department of Homeland Security, NBC News reported after obtaining an internal government report.

That document indicated the departure date would be October 31, and that so far the migrants were largely families traveling with children."

Full monty: https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/third-migrants-caravan/

[aztek]

1 hour ago, Eldorado said:

 

"A third caravan of migrants is expected to leave Central America within the next week, which could bring the total number of people escaping poverty and violence by making the northward trek to nearly 10,000.

 

i see it differently, they are bringing that poverty and violence here, just go to areas where most of them live, it's all there.

 

[Dark_Grey]

If need be, open fire at the border. Not AT the migrants, but over the migrants. That sends a message clearer than anything you could broadcast over a megaphone. The optics will be horrible ("Border patrol OPENS FIRE on women and children!!") but not nearly as bad as if they opened fire in the conventional sense. A few controlled bursts would turn half that caravan on it's heels, I reckon. No one needs to die.

Remember that migrants showing up to the border are confident because they will call America's bluff. They know they aren't at risk of being shot, just turned around and sent home. What have they got to lose but time? A little machine gun fire could change their perspective in a heart beat.

[Dark_Grey]

3 minutes ago, aztek said:

i see it differently, they are bringing that poverty and violence here, just go to areas where most of them live, it's all there.

It happened before when Castro opened his prisons and sent 150,000 Cuban convicts to Florida, kick starting the cocaine flood.

[Eldorado]

One of the Hondurans in the second caravan has been killed.

"A Honduran migrant who was part of a second caravan headed to the United States was killed in clashes with police over the weekend, officials said.

Mexican authorities used tear gas in Cuidad Hidalgo Sunday to ward off the second group, which consists mostly of Honduran migrants, near the country's southern border with Guatemala.

The man, Henry Diaz Reyes, died from a head wound. Mexican authorities said the migrants threw Molotov cocktails and used children as human shields.

Mexican authorities denied killing the 26-year-old Reyes."

Full report: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2018/10/29/Migrant-in-2nd-caravan-killed-in-Mexico-clashes-3rd-group-departs/6631540816653/

At the Wall St Journal: https://www.wsj.com/articles/honduran-migrant-dies-in-clashes-at-mexicos-southern-border-1540793695

 

[skliss]

3 minutes ago, Eldorado said:

Mexican authorities said the migrants threw Molotov cocktails and used children as human shields.

Lovely....just the kind of upstanding people we want in this country.....anyone who uses a child as a shield is scum.

I heard somewhere that the original group also had to be stopped while beating a man in the crowd who tried to grab a child. Who knows for what purpose. Not saying he didn't deserve a beating but I guess authorities didn't want him dead.

[aztek]

Quote

 

The man, Henry Diaz Reyes, died from a head wound. Mexican authorities said the migrants threw Molotov cocktails and used children as human shields.

 

 

 

that is not immigration, this is invasion,  last thing we need is people like this in our country.

Edited October 29, 2018 by aztek

[Dark_Grey]

1 hour ago, aztek said:

that is not immigration, this is invasion,  last thing we need is people like this in our country.

What is the definition of an "invasion" as Congress would see it? What powers does Trump have to stop it?

[aztek]

don't know, but i'm 100% sure they do not fall under migrants or refugees.  as far as congress, who cares, they will twist any definition the way it fits them.  bush did not even need them to star Iraq invasion, pretty sure Trump does not need them to stop one in our own country

[F3SS]

Thousands of foreign men trying to shove their way through our border is an invasion by anyone's definition. Except a democrat's.

[Michelle]

Earlier Monday, about 600 migrants had gathered on the bridge, where Mexican federal police had blocked one end. The migrants had gasoline bombs made of soft-drink bottles, and improvised PVC tubes to launch fireworks or other projectiles.

On Sunday, the migrants broke through border barriers on the Guatemalan side of the bridge, only to confront Mexican police, who blocked them from entering Mexico.

Guatemala’s Interior Ministry said the second group had wounded Guatemalan police and used children as human shields, and Guatemalan firefighters confirmed that a 26-year-old Honduran had been killed from a blow to the head.

While migrants claimed he was hit by a rubber bullet, Mexican Interior Secretary Alfonso Navarrete Prida denied that his country’s forces had firearms or anything that could fire rubber bullets.

Navarrete Prida said Mexican federal police and immigration agents were attacked with rocks, glass bottles and fireworks when migrants broke through a gate on the Mexican side of the border, but were prevented from entering. Navarrete said some of the attackers carried guns and firebombs. There was no evidence that the first caravan had come with weapons.

https://www.apnews.com/03271025cd6843deabe6e2bd537fe15b

[Dark_Grey]

12 minutes ago, Michelle said:

The migrants had gasoline bombs made of soft-drink bottles, and improvised PVC tubes to launch fireworks or other projectiles.

"PEACEFUL WOMEN AND CHILDREN!"

If they want to be greeted by fire, they are going about it the right way.