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Logical issues with belief.


danydandan

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1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Because they are impossible otherwise.

That's a baseless assertion.  Regardless whether someone prophesizes or not, how do you go about demonstrating it was God that did it?  Because they said so?

Edited by Rlyeh
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24 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

That's a baseless assertion.  Regardless whether someone prophesizes or not, how do you go about demonstrating it was God that did it?  Because they said so?

The term prophecy used to literally mean a message from God communicated via a prophet. Obviously this has changed to where prophecy and prediction mean the same thing, these days.

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One of my personal favorites ...

 

Quote

 

~

Geoffrey Of Monmouth
'Historia Regum Brittaniae'
The History of the Kings of Britain
 

BOOK VII.

CHAPTER III.

 

 

THE PROPHECY OF MERLIN.

 

~

 

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6 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Why do you need to be a God to fulfill a prophecy, or make it look like it's been fulfilled?  People aren't capable of acting out an event?

Nevermind.

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1 hour ago, danydandan said:

The term prophecy used to literally mean a message from God communicated via a prophet. Obviously this has changed to where prophecy and prediction mean the same thing, these days.

Prophecy proves God because only God can give prophecies...

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3 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Prophecy proves God because only God can give prophecies...

That's what the word used to literally mean. Not that I think any such thing exists, but that's what the word means.

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:43 AM, Guyver said:

Because they are impossible otherwise.

By principal alone, prophecies are impossible, as humanity has not invented a time-viewer. So no human can know what is yet to come. They can only know what has been. Prophesies have about as much weight as faith-healing, "alternative" medicine, praying and human-sacrifice. Any prophesy can be true if it is vague enough, that's how fortune tellers and other crystal-ball con-artists make their living. 

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 5:10 AM, danydandan said:

So does that assume other God's are capable of prediction and or able to manipulate the events of the future? 

If that's the case then why is one God favorable over an other?

Because "my god" is the one twue god! All other gods (and their believers!) are wrong, since obviously, my worldview and beliefs trump all other worldviews and beliefs!!!!

/end snarkasm

 

One of the things I've noticed about believers in deities, is that they can "logically rationalize" their own beliefs as truth. However, the 'logical rationalization' is often circular, and devolves to faith.

Sincere Christians will disregard belief in Allah, because they claim that Muslims are being tricked by Satan.

Sincere Muslims will disregard belief in Yahweh, because they claim that Christians are being tricked by Satan.

 

And if Christian believers (or any believers in any god) could actually look at the supposed prophecies that they claim predict things, objectively, without bias, and with critical thought, perhaps they would redefine what they mean about "fulfilled prophecies". Sadly, they can't (or won't) and engage in mental & linguistic acrobatics in order to "prove" their beliefs.

As I've said, a prophecy requires some concrete information, and a date, or date range, to actually count as a prophecy.

If I said: "One day a human will walk on the surface of the 4th planet of the star Alpha Centauri", and this happens, 10,000 years from now, is it a 'prophecy'?

If I said: "In 2019, a national leader will die", is it a 'prophecy' if it comes to be?

Technically, both of the above statements are prophecies. However, they are soooo broad and vague, they would be more accurately described as "wild guesses".

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 5:28 AM, Rlyeh said:

Why do you need to be a God to fulfill a prophecy, or make it look like it's been fulfilled?  People aren't capable of acting out an event?

Exactly!

If I predict that I will have a steak for dinner, and then have a steak, is that a prophecy? Is it a 'divinely' inspired prophecy?

If I predict that sometime in the future, same-sex marriage will be accepted across the globe, and work toward making that a reality, is it a prophecy? Or is it a statement of intent?

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On 26/02/2019 at 4:55 AM, danydandan said:

@Will Due at least the Urantia Book rejects a flat Earth.

But I heard a good one today.

"The flat Earth movement is gaining more and more followers all around the globe"

Well of course it is.

A product of poor education, social media, widespread integration of fantasy into mainstream media,  and the lack of other "anchors" in human lives.

In such times humans abandon rational thinking and revert to meeting their psychological needs by other means.  

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If you  had xray vision eyes you could see the whole earth from where you are, or from the moon :)   (to hark back a couple of weeks) 

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8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

If you  had xray vision eyes you could see the whole earth from where you are, or from the moon :)   (to hark back a couple of weeks) 

X-ray vision would mean you'd be able to see x-ray wavelength.  You're not going to see through the earth.

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1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

X-ray vision would mean you'd be able to see x-ray wavelength.  You're not going to see through the earth.

Obviously there is some fancy University somewhere in Australia that teaches otherwise ...

~

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1 hour ago, third_eye said:

Obviously there is some fancy University somewhere in Australia that teaches otherwise ...

~

Or superman comics.

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15 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

X-ray vision would mean you'd be able to see x-ray wavelength.  You're not going to see through the earth.

lol  By definition, in this scenario the vision would "see" through the earth. It was not a scientific comment, but a humorous one. It had  me thinking  of superman and his temptation to look through Lois Lane's dress. Also those x ray glasses advertised on the back of comics  in the fifties and sixties.

piece of trivia, without googling, does anyone know what the S on superman's outfit stands for ?  

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3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

lol  By definition, in this scenario the vision would "see" through the earth. It was not a scientific comment, but a humorous one. It had  me thinking  of superman and his temptation to look through Lois Lane's dress. Also those x ray glasses advertised on the back of comics  in the fifties and sixties.

piece of trivia, without googling, does anyone know what the S on superman's outfit stands for ?  

Hi Walker

Fiction meets three boobed reality.

jmccr8

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20 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

X-ray vision would mean you'd be able to see x-ray wavelength.  You're not going to see through the earth.

Not according to my understanding of Superman comics, the viewer is able to see right through objects, with x-ray vision. Not catch stray x-rays.

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