+and-then Posted March 7, 2019 #226 Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 11/12/2018 at 8:36 AM, danydandan said: Doubt it, it says in the Bible there is a mountain where you can literally see every kingdom. That would mean the author assumed the Earth was flat, not round because you obviously can't see around a sphere. Or it would mean one of the authors - 66 books, 40 writers - used metaphor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted March 7, 2019 #227 Share Posted March 7, 2019 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. No logic or proof necessary or presented. Believe, don't believe. Simple choice. The real question should be, why is it so important to limit the beliefs of others? Why not just live and let live? This is assuming that they are willing to return you the same level of respect, of course. It must be a two-way street. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #228 Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 10:42 PM, danydandan said: It isn't the word of God, it's claimed to be but there is nothing to confirm it is or isn't. Whether an Abrahamic God exists or not I have no clue nor do I care Well, first of all I’d like to disagree with your first point here Dan. I think it is entirely possible to analyze whether or not the claims of the bible being divinely inspired or completed are valid or not....and I bet if we put our heads together we could absolutely present a very logical position for or against. For example, the bible contains many prophecies which are presented as actual prophesies and these could be considered. If a prophecy could be proven to be accurate, then that indicates divine inspiration because the future cannot be known by humans. Or, would you disagree and claim that future could be known by some means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #229 Share Posted March 7, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 10:42 PM, danydandan said: So back to the interpretation of Bible that assumes the Earth is flat, do you have anything to say about it? I do my friend. I have studied this topic in great detail and consider myself an expert on the bible in some aspects. The bible not only never says the Earth is flat, the exact opposite argument that I would present. The bible presents a solar system which travels in a circuit, and the root is circle which is what orbits actually are. An eclipse is a circle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 7, 2019 #230 Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Guyver said: Or, would you disagree and claim that future could be known by some means? I very much disagree, having had a number of dreams that accurately forecast future events, that seemed quite improbable. Is that "divine inspiration" ? I don't know what you would call it. And I'm not blowing smoke out of my **** **** with this, just a few weeks ago, I dreamt a team won a football comp, I actually had the dream twice, only thing is, no year was mentioned ! That is holding me back from having a bigger bet on it, but I will still be having a good bet, that they do win, this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #231 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Habitat said: I very much disagree, having had a number of dreams that accurately forecast future events, that seemed quite improbable. Is that "divine inspiration" ? I don't know what you would call it. And I'm not blowing smoke out of my **** **** with this, just a few weeks ago, I dreamt a team won a football comp, I actually had the dream twice, only thing is, no year was mentioned ! That is holding me back from having a bigger bet on it, but I will still be having a good bet, that they do win, this year. If you could prove that you could predict the future, then yes, I would accept that as a piece of evidence for divine intervention. Since, according to human understanding the future does not exist....knowing it is not possible and only a lucky guess if you actually get one. Weatherologists are actually amazing in their predictions. But these are based on science and nature and don’t predict human events. That’s a whole other animal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 7, 2019 #232 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Guyver said: If you could prove that you could predict the future, then yes, I would accept that as a piece of evidence for divine intervention. Since, according to human understanding the future does not exist....knowing it is not possible and only a lucky guess if you actually get one. Weatherologists are actually amazing in their predictions. But these are based on science and nature and don’t predict human events. That’s a whole other animal. It is far from uncommon for people to have such dreams, but if it is "divine", then divinity is common. Edited March 7, 2019 by Habitat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #233 Share Posted March 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Habitat said: I very much disagree, having had a number of dreams that accurately forecast future events, that seemed quite improbable. Is that "divine inspiration" ? I don't know what you would call it. And I'm not blowing smoke out of my **** **** with this, just a few weeks ago, I dreamt a team won a football comp, I actually had the dream twice, only thing is, no year was mentioned ! That is holding me back from having a bigger bet on it, but I will still be having a good bet, that they do win, this year. You know you can prove that you can predict the future right? All you have to do is record your next prophetic dream, print it out and mail it to someone. The envelope of your prophecy must remain closed and date stamped until the events you predicted occur. Then you take witnesses willing to swear to their testimony and open the envelope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #234 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Habitat said: It is far from uncommon for people to have such dreams, but if it is "divine", then divinity is common. Dreams are freaky - they prove nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 7, 2019 #235 Share Posted March 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Guyver said: Dreams are freaky - they prove nothing. They have proved themselves to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #236 Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Habitat said: They have proved themselves to me. Ok. But proof for you isn’t proof for anyone else. And besides that, unless you can predict the time of the future events, I don’t really consider it an actual prophecy. I can lucky guess things myself. In 1996 or 1997, I predicted that humans and machines would merge in the near future. I predicted that it would begin with the healthcare industry. Replacement parts for humans that are not organic is my prediction fior the near future. i don’t think God has a thing to do with this prediction, it’s the result of my own cognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 7, 2019 #237 Share Posted March 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, Guyver said: proof for you isn’t proof for anyone else. Yes. Which is why everyone has proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #238 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Will Due said: Yes. Which is why everyone has proof. Proof of what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted March 7, 2019 #239 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, and then said: why is it so important to limit the beliefs of others? Why not just live and let live? This is assuming that they are willing to return you the same level of respect, of course. It must be a two-way street. It is important to limit the beliefs of others, when those others try to impose their beliefs on non-believers. I am quite happy to let people pray their prayers in the church, temple, or mosque of their choice, and to live their lives according to their gods desires. As long as they don't try to control or limit what others can do, say, or practice. You want to put a nativity scene in front of the town hall? I have no problem with it. As long as.... it is paid for by the people who want to put it there. You want that nativity scene lit up, with a neon sign that says "Jesus is the Reason for the Season"? Go right ahead, as long as the town or city is NOT footing the electric bill. You want prayer in school? Sure. Just give equal prayer time for ALL religions or creeds and not just YOUR favorite flavor of god. Or better yet, why not a five minute period of silence so that all students can pray (or not) as they desire? You want to ban same sex marriage? Then provide secular, non-religious reasons why it shouldn't be allowed. And, just for the record, "devaluing the meaning of marriage" is NOT a valid excuse to ban it; what with all the loveless marriages, infidelity, divorce, and abusive relationships that are present in hetero marriages. And I agree, respect is a two-way street, but when one group tries to railroad their beliefs and force everyone to conform to their way of thinking, there is no respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 7, 2019 #240 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Guyver said: Proof of what? Proof of something that isn't recognized as such. Or at the other extreme, proof that's just ignored. Edited March 7, 2019 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #241 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Just now, Will Due said: Proof of something that isn't recognized as such. Or at the other extreme, it's just ignored. Ok. Well, let’s not get specific about it then. I don’t think it should be considered strange, or represent the divine existence that people experience things they don’t understand. Now, if you have proof of a miracle, then you have something everyone can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 7, 2019 #242 Share Posted March 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, Guyver said: Ok. But proof for you isn’t proof for anyone else. And besides that, unless you can predict the time of the future events, I don’t really consider it an actual prophecy. I can lucky guess things myself. In 1996 or 1997, I predicted that humans and machines would merge in the near future. I predicted that it would begin with the healthcare industry. Replacement parts for humans that are not organic is my prediction fior the near future. i don’t think God has a thing to do with this prediction, it’s the result of my own cognition. It is not something that can be summoned, seemingly, and I don't whether "God" explains it, but I can't be swayed from it being real, at this stage, just had way too much of it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 7, 2019 #243 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Just now, Guyver said: Ok. Well, let’s not get specific about it then. I don’t think it should be considered strange, or represent the divine existence that people experience things they don’t understand. Now, if you have proof of a miracle, then you have something everyone can use. Being alive is proof to me. Proof of a miracle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted March 7, 2019 #244 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Guyver said: If a prophecy could be proven to be accurate, then that indicates divine inspiration because the future cannot be known by humans. To be considered a valid prophecy, it should have an expiration date. And it should be clear what is being foretold. In another thread, I made a "prophecy" regarding a fatal accident on a major roadway. I gave no other particulars, such as date, number of fatalities, or where on a 300 mile road this would take place. So, if there is at least one traffic accident, that results in at least one fatality, somewhere on that road, sometime, have I made an accurate 'prediction'? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 7, 2019 #245 Share Posted March 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Guyver said: I don’t think it should be considered strange, or represent the divine existence that people experience things they don’t understand. I don't think it's strange that they don't understand. It's dark out there. And hard to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #246 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Will Due said: I don't think it's strange that they don't understand. It's dark out there. And hard to see. The struggle is real and there is no denying it, At least the Bhuddists have been able to express that part accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 7, 2019 #247 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Guyver said: The struggle is real and there is no denying it, It's real that's for sure, but faith makes it much easier to not end up struggling with it, all life long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #248 Share Posted March 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, Will Due said: It's real that's for sure, but faith makes it much easier to not end up struggling with it, all life long. For some people, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 7, 2019 #249 Share Posted March 7, 2019 48 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said: To be considered a valid prophecy, it should have an expiration date. And it should be clear what is being foretold. In another thread, I made a "prophecy" regarding a fatal accident on a major roadway. I gave no other particulars, such as date, number of fatalities, or where on a 300 mile road this would take place. So, if there is at least one traffic accident, that results in at least one fatality, somewhere on that road, sometime, have I made an accurate 'prediction'? Yes, but smart people wouldn’t consider that divine revelation. You’re smart enough to figure that one out for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted March 7, 2019 #250 Share Posted March 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, Guyver said: For some people, yes. When we find ourselves outside in the dark but in a group, the struggle to understand what's in the darkness is lessened, right? Isn't this because we have faith in our friends, eventhough they may not be standing by close enough to see them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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