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danydandan

Logical issues with belief.

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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, and then said:

why is it so important to limit the beliefs of others?  Why not just live and let live?  This is assuming that they are willing to return you the same level of respect, of course.  It must be a two-way street.

It is important to limit the beliefs of others, when those others try to impose their beliefs on non-believers. I am quite happy to let people pray their prayers in the church, temple, or mosque of their choice, and to live their lives according to their gods desires. As long as they don't try to control or limit what others can do, say, or practice.

You want to put a nativity scene in front of the town hall? I have no problem with it. As long as.... it is paid for by the people who want to put it there. You want that nativity scene lit up, with a neon sign that says "Jesus is the Reason for the Season"? Go right ahead, as long as the town or city is NOT footing the electric bill.

You want prayer in school? Sure. Just give equal prayer time for ALL religions or creeds and not just YOUR favorite flavor of god. Or better yet, why not a five minute period of silence so that all students can pray (or not) as they desire?

You want to ban same sex marriage? Then provide secular, non-religious reasons why it shouldn't be allowed. And, just for the record, "devaluing the meaning of marriage" is NOT a valid excuse to ban it; what with all the loveless marriages, infidelity, divorce, and abusive relationships that are present in hetero marriages.

 

And I agree, respect is a two-way street, but when one group tries to railroad their beliefs and force everyone to conform to their way of thinking, there is no respect.

 

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Will do
2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Proof of what?

 

Proof of something that isn't recognized as such. Or at the other extreme, proof that's just ignored.

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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Guyver
Just now, Will Due said:

Proof of something that isn't recognized as such. Or at the other extreme, it's just ignored.

Ok.  Well, let’s not get specific about it then.  I don’t think it should be considered strange, or represent the divine existence that people experience things they don’t understand.  Now, if you have proof of a miracle, then you have something everyone can use.

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Habitat
23 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Ok.  But proof for you isn’t proof for anyone else.  And besides that, unless you can predict the time of the future events, I don’t really consider it an actual prophecy.  I can lucky guess things myself.  In 1996 or 1997, I predicted that humans and machines would merge in the near future.  I predicted that it would begin with the healthcare industry.  Replacement parts for humans that are not organic is my prediction fior the near future.

i don’t think God has a thing to do with this prediction, it’s the result of my own cognition.

It is not something that can be summoned, seemingly, and I don't whether "God" explains it, but I can't be swayed from it being real, at this stage, just had way too much of it happen.

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Will do
Just now, Guyver said:

Ok.  Well, let’s not get specific about it then.  I don’t think it should be considered strange, or represent the divine existence that people experience things they don’t understand.  Now, if you have proof of a miracle, then you have something everyone can use.

 

Being alive is proof to me. Proof of a miracle.

 

 

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Jodie.Lynne
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

 If a prophecy could be proven to be accurate, then that indicates divine inspiration because the future cannot be known by humans.

To be considered a valid prophecy, it should have an expiration date. And it should be clear what is being foretold.

In another thread, I made a "prophecy" regarding a fatal accident on a major roadway. I gave no other particulars, such as date, number of fatalities, or where on a 300 mile road this would take place.

So, if there is at least one traffic accident, that results in at least one fatality, somewhere on that road, sometime, have I made an accurate 'prediction'?

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Will do
5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I don’t think it should be considered strange, or represent the divine existence that people experience things they don’t understand. 

 

I don't think it's strange that they don't understand. It's dark out there. And hard to see.

 

 

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Guyver
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

I don't think it's strange that they don't understand. It's dark out there. And hard to see.

 

 

The struggle is real and there is no denying it,  At least the Bhuddists have been able to express that part accurately.

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Will do
3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

The struggle is real and there is no denying it,  

 

It's real that's for sure, but faith makes it much easier to not end up struggling with it, all life long.

 

 

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Guyver
17 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

It's real that's for sure, but faith makes it much easier to not end up struggling with it, all life long.

 

 

For some people, yes.

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Guyver
48 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

To be considered a valid prophecy, it should have an expiration date. And it should be clear what is being foretold.

In another thread, I made a "prophecy" regarding a fatal accident on a major roadway. I gave no other particulars, such as date, number of fatalities, or where on a 300 mile road this would take place.

So, if there is at least one traffic accident, that results in at least one fatality, somewhere on that road, sometime, have I made an accurate 'prediction'?

Yes, but smart people wouldn’t consider that divine revelation.  You’re smart enough to figure that one out for yourself.

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Will do
11 minutes ago, Guyver said:

For some people, yes.

 

When we find ourselves outside in the dark but in a group, the struggle to understand what's in the darkness is lessened, right?

Isn't this because we have faith in our friends, eventhough they may not be standing by close enough to see them?

 

 

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Guyver
51 minutes ago, Habitat said:

It is not something that can be summoned, seemingly, and I don't whether "God" explains it, but I can't be swayed from it being real, at this stage, just had way too much of it happen.

Right, but you shouldn’t conflate God with other phenomenon.

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Habitat
Just now, Guyver said:

Right, but you shouldn’t conflate God with other phenomenon.

I did not, but it certainly is hardly explicable "rationally".

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Guyver
2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

When we find ourselves outside in the dark but in a group, the struggle to understand what's in the darkness is lessened, right?

Isn't this because we have faith in our friends, eventhough they may not be standing by close enough to see them?

 

 

Of course.  So what?

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Guyver
Just now, Habitat said:

I did not, but it certainly is hardly explicable "rationally".

Right.  But we can’t even really correctly define rationally.  

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Will do
3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Of course.  So what?

 

In my opinion, God is the greatest friend of all. Always nearby. Always there to help get through the struggle.

 

 

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Habitat
20 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Right.  But we can’t even really correctly define rationally.  

Of course we can, as much as any word.

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Will do

 

When we're asleep and we have a dream, it amounts to an experience. Yet, we're unconscious. Supposedly without the ability to make choices. Supposedly inactive. Sound asleep.

To me this is hard evidence of at least one thing. That within our mind, within our being, there exists something that is interacting with us. Something that we're having experiences with, within.

 

 

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Guyver
17 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

In my opinion, God is the greatest friend of all. Always nearby. Always there to help get through the struggle.

 

 

I think that’s a wonderful opinion.

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Guyver
6 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Of course we can, as much as any word.

Rational relates to the mind.  Every mind is different.  So, we can only define rational based on our own understanding and that of other people.  But many people are crazy and so that takes rationality down just a notch.  We understand rational as we understand it based upon our own frame of reference.  But our frame of reference is demonstrably limited, therefore I stand by my assertion that we can’t even agree upon what “rational” really means.  If you mean rational from a subjective standpoint, fine.  But then again, that’s not really saying all that much.  What’s rational to you may not be rational to me.

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Will do
4 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I think that’s a wonderful opinion.

 

Especially when an opinion, ends up being more than just an opinion. 

 

 

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Guyver
Just now, Will Due said:

Especially when an opinion, ends up being more than just an opinion. 

See....that’s just frustrating to me.  We have to play this out every time?  If you have something to say, you should just say it.  How does an opinion ever become more than an opinion Will?  The only way I know is demonstrable fact.  

If you have demonstrable fact, you should bring that, and if you don’t have that then you should bring big woo.  I mean, IMHO.

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Will do
2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

See....that’s just frustrating to me.  We have to play this out every time?  If you have something to say, you should just say it.  How does an opinion ever become more than an opinion Will?  The only way I know is demonstrable fact.  

If you have demonstrable fact, you should bring that, and if you don’t have that then you should bring big woo.  I mean, IMHO.

 

How can it be demonstrated without faith?

With faith, fact demonstrates itself.

 

 

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Guyver
3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

How can it be demonstrated without faith?

With faith, fact demonstrates itself.

 

Sorry.  That doesn’t make much sense to me and I don’t know what you mean.

There are people who claim to have been abducted by aliens.  They believe it and to them it’s a fact.  Extraterrestrial beings have abducted them and performed medical experiments on them.  They will swear to it and pass lie detector tests.  Some can offer physical evidence of it in the form of implants.  Does that mean that we should all believe that aliens abduct people?

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