Habitat Posted March 9, 2019 #376 Share Posted March 9, 2019 10 hours ago, GoldenWolf said: ,Thousands of years of no evidence.... Don't worry, that only adds to the fascination, for those that know, and I don't refer to those that think they know, that the answer is in the negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 9, 2019 #377 Share Posted March 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said: No, you have no data, if you did you'd be providing it. You have a story and a memory, and maybe you should do some actual research on psychology and see what experts have to say on memory. I trust my senses, well beyond the opinion of any so-called expert on this matter. You are just feeding your prejudice, which is telling you such things cannot exist. The snare of self-deception has you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 9, 2019 #378 Share Posted March 9, 2019 On 8/03/2019 at 10:15 AM, Guyver said: On proving God, I gave one example as proof....fulfilled prophecy. Another proof would be the working of miracles. So yes, I do stand by the position that the bible itself can be tested for divine inspiration. Does lightning prove Zeus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 9, 2019 #379 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Rlyeh said: Does lightning prove Zeus? Nope. Why the rhetorical question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight bits Posted March 9, 2019 #380 Share Posted March 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Habitat said: That depends entirely on what the detail of what was foretold, was. In theory, it would be possible to dream intricate detail and have it all come true, just by chance. But in practice, the point is reached, where that element of chance, is erased. However unlikely it might seem. Naturally if I dream, months in advance, say, that it will snow at Christmas, and I live in the New England area of the USA, and it does indeed snow, then it was a high probability event anyway, and the foretelling is easily dismissed. If I were to dream it snowed in Brisbane, Australia at Xmas, and it happened, I would consider that extremely significant, as the chances of it happening are so vanishingly small. So qualification of the statement in the quote box, is badly needed. I don't claim the dream I alluded to, was quite as unlikely as that summer snow, but it was certainly getting in to that territory, although assigning probabilities would be very difficult. Suffice to say, it was a very convincing demonstration. If it were the only such dream I ever had, I probably would not have taken too much from it, but it is the accumulation of many such dreams, that tips it into being a certainty, for me. OK, that's progress. We move off of possibility and move onto probability. What needs to be tracked is the entire ensemble of predictions, not the occasional oddity (the summertime snowstorm). And they have to be predictions not merely synchronicities (i.e. after the fact, I recall that I dreamt "about" something "like" what happened). I also don't need to tell you that dream recall is quirky, and especially prone to retrospective recall ("I dreamt about a summer snowstorm once, but I didn't remember that until now..."). Oh, and even in a brief discussion like this, what ended up as a summer snowstorm was 90x more likely than what was first mentioned, a Christmas snowstorm in Brisbane. And you have to watch partial credit (a storm in Brisbane, not flurries atop Mt Bogong). For every hit you score, you need to ensure the denominator reflects all that you would have counted as a hit. Look on the bright side: it is nearly impossible to do this with any precision. The hard-edgedness required loses what is valuable about dreams: thinking in symbols rather than in signs. Whatever floats your boat. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 9, 2019 #381 Share Posted March 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Guyver said: Nope. Why the rhetorical question? Why would fulfilled prophecies prove God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted March 9, 2019 Author #382 Share Posted March 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: Why would fulfilled prophecies prove God? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 9, 2019 #383 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Just now, Rlyeh said: Why would fulfilled prophecies prove God? Good question, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 9, 2019 #384 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Just now, danydandan said: Who knows? The person making the statement should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted March 9, 2019 Author #385 Share Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: The person making the statement should? I have a prophetic vision here to impart. (Not divinely inspired) He doesn't know either, nor will we accept what Guyvey states is satisfactory for him to assume causation between prophecy and God. Edited March 9, 2019 by danydandan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Magnus Posted March 9, 2019 #386 Share Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) The Torah says in Deuteronomy 13 that fulfilled prophecies themselves are not a reason to believe a prophet. If a prophet comes along and predicts the future and it comes true, but he is telling you to follow other gods (that you have not known) then don't accept him. It is God testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Edited March 9, 2019 by Opus Magnus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted March 9, 2019 Author #387 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Opus Magnus said: The Torah says in Deuteronomy 13 that fulfilled prophecies themselves are not a reason to believe a prophet. If a prophet comes along and predicts the future and it comes true, but he is telling you to follow other gods then don't accept him. So does that assume other God's are capable of prediction and or able to manipulate the events of the future? If that's the case then why is one God favorable over an other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 9, 2019 #388 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Well, I remember hearing some Nobel Prize winning physicist say the future already "is" and the past still "is". If that be the case, prophetic dreams might be tapping into that. In fact, from my own experience, it seems that way. But it does mess with notions of free will. You would also think such dreams could reveal something about the past, currently unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Magnus Posted March 9, 2019 #389 Share Posted March 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, danydandan said: So does that assume other God's are capable of prediction and or able to manipulate the events of the future? If that's the case then why is one God favorable over an other? Probably because the ability to predict is more common than once realised but can still lead to mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted March 9, 2019 Author #390 Share Posted March 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said: Probably because the ability to predict is more common than once realised but can still lead to mistakes. That doesn't really answer the question though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 9, 2019 #391 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Why do you need to be a God to fulfill a prophecy, or make it look like it's been fulfilled? People aren't capable of acting out an event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted March 9, 2019 #392 Share Posted March 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: Why do you need to be a God to fulfill a prophecy, or make it look like it's been fulfilled? People aren't capable of acting out an event? Well, if an extinct volcano came to life, and was predicted by a sooth-sayer, he could not make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted March 9, 2019 #393 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Just now, Habitat said: Well, if an extinct volcano came to life, and was predicted by a sooth-sayer, he could not make it happen. Right, but prophecies aren't limited to natural events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Magnus Posted March 9, 2019 #394 Share Posted March 9, 2019 I edited it to show more of the actual verse. But, it says, " Gods who you have not known." This would be one of the cases that is repeated throughout the KJV where it is refered to as, "Whoring after other gods." The so called False Prophet of Revelation could be an example. That he produces miracles to deceive even the Saints, but God has to step in to stop them from following the dark new avenue he wants. It just wouldn't be good for the survival of the species to drop everything to follow a new god for a few miracles. I think one point is that sooth sayers were nothing new then, and are still in supply today whether they get hits or misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted March 9, 2019 #395 Share Posted March 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said: I edited it to show more of the actual verse. But, it says, " Gods who you have not known." This would be one of the cases that is repeated throughout the KJV where it is refered to as, "Whoring after other gods." The so called False Prophet of Revelation could be an example. That he produces miracles to deceive even the Saints, but God has to step in to stop them from following the dark new avenue he wants. It just wouldn't be good for the survival of the species to drop everything to follow a new god for a few miracles. I think one point is that sooth sayers were nothing new then, and are still in supply today whether they get hits or misses. how very liberal of you that gods are *****s. jmccr8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Magnus Posted March 9, 2019 #396 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, jmccr8 said: how very liberal of you that gods are *****s. jmccr8 Well, that's the literal wording of it. Besides, you might be wanting to take a word out of the english language. There is another verse I ran across in the Major Prophets last time or the time before I was reading the Old Testament. I found it interesting what it might have meant in BC days, but it seems to apply even today, "The Liberals you have aren't even liberal anymore." I think this goes along with current complaints that the Liberal Party is even more constraining than the conservative ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 9, 2019 #397 Share Posted March 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Rlyeh said: Why would fulfilled prophecies prove God? Because they are impossible otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted March 9, 2019 Author #398 Share Posted March 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, Guyver said: Because they are impossible otherwise. You have a point if you take the oldest meaning of the word prophecy. But now a days prophecy simply means a prediction of what is to come. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted March 9, 2019 #399 Share Posted March 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, danydandan said: You have a point if you take the oldest meaning of the word prophecy. But now a days prophecy simply means a prediction of what is to come. Right. So, as it pertains to specific instances, events, times and locations, do you think it’s possible to make accurate predictions? For example....we know that people are born and die in every country of the world every day. Is it possible to predict exactly when a person named ————- is to be born or die? Is it possible to predict exactly when any given person from any given location is going to accomplish any given event? i mean, I did predict the teams that would be going to the Super Bowl last year before the season ever started, but could I predict the score, the time the game finishes, exactly, or the players on the starting rosters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted March 9, 2019 Author #400 Share Posted March 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Guyver said: Right. So, as it pertains to specific instances, events, times and locations, do you think it’s possible to make accurate predictions? For example....we know that people are born and die in every country of the world every day. Is it possible to predict exactly when a person named ————- is to be born or die? Is it possible to predict exactly when any given person from any given location is going to accomplish any given event? i mean, I did predict the teams that would be going to the Super Bowl last year before the season ever started, but could I predict the score, the time the game finishes, exactly, or the players on the starting rosters? Through various means a prediction can be made on just about anything. The Superbowl is an easy one to get correct as there are realistically only a few team capable of making to the Superbowl. I made a bet at start of this season regarding Leeds Utd. Leeds to get promoted, Manchester United to sack Jose Mourinho and then next season Leeds beat Manchester United in one if their games. This was a hunch based on Leeds hiring a great manager, Jose Mourinho being a crap manager and being optimistic about the Roses Derby. At this stage my 1500/1 odds are looking great, as Leeds are top of the league and Jose is gone. But that's all irrelevant, I've made a prediction on three separate events here. But our discussion is on whether these predictions are prophetic in nature (by prophetic I mean divinely inspired). I don't believe we can establish a link between them with certainty. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now