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Dark_Grey

Whoopi's remarks on the #METOO movement

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Dark_Grey

Whoopi Goldberg, 62, laid down some sobering, controversial thoughts during last week's talk in Leeds, England.

WindsorStar

Quote

Goldberg, 62, said, “Now there’s some things my mother always said to me that I knew were true.

“It’s like, if some guy said to me we’re gonna have a meeting up in my hotel room… you don’t f—ing go – you don’t go.

“And if you do, cop to it. Say, ‘That’s right I went up there and had sex with that ugly-ass man so I could get an Oscar and a Tony.’

“Am I talking about myself? No. We have to teach young women better,” she said.

This is hot on the heels of a new development in the Harvey Weinstein criminal court case

Quote

Mr. Weinstein, 66, was charged in May with raping one woman and forcing another, Lucia Evans, to perform oral sex on him. Ms. Evans, a marketing executive, had testified to a state grand jury that the forced sex act had occurred in 2004, during a casting meeting at the offices of Mr. Weinstein’s film company, Miramax, in Manhattan’s TriBeCa neighborhood.

But in a letter unsealed after Thursday’s hearing, prosecutors from the Manhattan district attorney’s office revealed that a friend of Ms. Evans had informed them in August that Ms. Evans had given her a different account of the incident. The friend, who was not identified, told prosecutors that Ms. Evans had said she willingly performed oral sex on Mr. Weinstein in exchange for the promise of an “acting job.”

I have to say, I agree with Whoopi. Harvey Weinstein is a creep and no doubt has done creepy things but throwing him under the bus to save your public image is equally creepy. "Regret after sex does not equal rape" - that holds true for College kids and Harvey Weinstein. It doesn't give you the right to lie in front a court of law because you are afraid of what grandma might think of you. 

Here's a good example: Jennifer Lawrence. She is a mediocre actress at best yet she was catapulted to the top of Hollywood in a very short time.

Spoiler

Jennifer Lawrence is an American actress who has received numerous nominations and has won multiple awards, including one Academy Award, one BAFTA Award, three Golden Globe Awards, four Critics' Choice Awards, two Screen Actors Guild Awards, seven MTV Movie Awards, five People's Choice Awards, and eight Teen Choice awards.

That's a lot of awards for monotone line delivery and breathy whispers.

This is the game that has been played for a long time. Whoopi just wants women to own it. Thoughts?

 

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Kismit
1 minute ago, Dark_Grey said:

Whoopi Goldberg, 62, laid down some sobering, controversial thoughts during last week's talk in Leeds, England.

WindsorStar

This is hot on the heels of a new development in the Harvey Weinstein criminal court case

I have to say, I agree with Whoopi. Harvey Weinstein is a creep and no doubt has done creepy things but throwing him under the bus to save your public image is equally creepy. "Regret after sex does not equal rape" - that holds true for College kids and Harvey Weinstein. It doesn't give you the right to lie in front a court of law because you are afraid of what grandma might think of you. 

Here's a good example: Jennifer Lawrence. She is a mediocre actress at best yet she was catapulted to the top of Hollywood in a very short time.

  Reveal hidden contents

Jennifer Lawrence is an American actress who has received numerous nominations and has won multiple awards, including one Academy Award, one BAFTA Award, three Golden Globe Awards, four Critics' Choice Awards, two Screen Actors Guild Awards, seven MTV Movie Awards, five People's Choice Awards, and eight Teen Choice awards.

That's a lot of awards for monotone line delivery and breathy whispers.

This is the game that has been played for a long time. Whoopi just wants women to own it. Thoughts?

 

I agree to a point. 

I believe woman should be less niave and do everything they can to keep themselves safe.

But I also believe men should not treat woman as commodities. Woman should not be expected to advance through sexual acts, they should have to put in the proper hard work and have talent. Men who take advantage of stupid girls are still taking advantage. 

Muddling the water with accusations of sexual regret makes it even harder still for true victims to be heard. 

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and then
34 minutes ago, Kismit said:

I agree to a point. 

I believe woman should be less niave and do everything they can to keep themselves safe.

But I also believe men should not treat woman as commodities. Woman should not be expected to advance through sexual acts, they should have to put in the proper hard work and have talent. Men who take advantage of stupid girls are still taking advantage. 

Muddling the water with accusations of sexual regret makes it even harder still for true victims to be heard. 

So if a young woman goes into such an arrangement for her own benefit, then decides she needs to lie about it in court, you're okay with that?

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Kismit
1 minute ago, and then said:

So if a young woman goes into such an arrangement for her own benefit, then decides she needs to lie about it in court, you're okay with that?

You see that is what I am talking about.  The immediate reaction to it being the woman at fault. The assumption that the most likely reason for an accusation is regret.

I did not say I was okay with false accusations.

I  said that woman are responsible for thier behavior. 

But also Men should be responsible for thiers. 

The arrangements of sex for favours is wrong.

Tell me and then, if a man aranges a sordid hotel meeting with a woman in hopes of receiving sex for a favor and finds out he has been duped. Does he have sexual regret?

How is it different?

How is he any less responsible for his stupid decision than she is?

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Imaginarynumber1

Coercion =/= consent

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Kismit
5 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Coercion =/= consent

On both sides.

A woman should not put herself at risk of sexual assault by stupidly entering into a hotel agreement.  

And a man should not stupidly put himself at risk of a false rape accusation by entering into a hotel agreement. 

It is a two way street of responsibility. And we need to stop making the woman more responsible for thier safety than the men.

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Habitat

I don't this is complicated at all. If you are sexually assaulted and keep quiet about it because it might affect your career prospects adversely by reporting it, and might help those prospects by not, you aren't much of a woman. It goes without saying, the man is a criminal. Those women are just setting the stage for the next assault, on someone else. But one suspects most of these women, were not as resistant as they might have been, if it was Neville Nobody forcing himself on them. And I am surprised no-one reacted to the OP's suggestion that a certain actress reached fame by dispensing sexual favours, I'd be loath to say something like that about anyone, without solid proof.

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Not A Rockstar

Sex was always a commodity in Hollywood (and Washington and NYC and anywhere there is money or power), and they are generally dirtbags, but this process now is a nasty game of revenge accusations and ugliness, and there is nothing else it ever was going to be. This is just ugly.

You knew going into it that the term "casting couch" was never a euphemism for anything else but pay to play. It is no way just women either. Kids, young males, it is a nasty business. That these people who went into it deliberately for parts and breaks and favors now are playing the me too card for a boost to their careers is a shame and detracts from real victims of violence out there. But, maybe it will give someone the nerve to speak up.

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third_eye

I'm curious here about the position of the women thus far mentioned, let's say a man and a woman gets into an 'agreement' of the sort mentioned here, if the woman gains the promises and rewards does it not also renders her situation as prostitution ? 

If she garners none of the benefits as promised, does it then reverses the situation it self and renders it a crime of sexual assault again ?

~

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, and then said:

So if a young woman goes into such an arrangement for her own benefit, then decides she needs to lie about it in court, you're okay with that?

No.  Think that happens much?  I don't think the willing participants have spoken out.  

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and then
2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

No.  Think that happens much?  I don't think the willing participants have spoken out.  

With the coming of # me too?  Absolutely.  I'm not advocating that anyone engaging in sex for benefits be excused.  NEITHER side.  Those who are worse, IMO, are the ones who took the easy route to a career by selling their body, THEN trying to crucify the person they sold themselves to.

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Rlyeh

https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/neil-patrick-harris-reveals-whoopi-sexual-advances/

Quote

“You know, I did my first movie ever with Whoopi Goldberg, a movie called ‘Clara’s Heart.’ And we worked together on that,” Harris said. “She told me — I was, what, 15, 16 years old — she told me on my last day of shooting that in 10 years’ time she was going to have sex with me.”

 

But we all know this metoo movement only cares about women

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Dark_Grey
17 hours ago, Kismit said:

Muddling the water with accusations of sexual regret makes it even harder still for true victims to be heard. 

THAT is my biggest issue with what the movement has become and with the character assassins you point out. At the end of the day, there are real victims who will suffer because of someone else's ego.

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Dark_Grey
14 hours ago, Not A Rockstar said:

That these people who went into it deliberately for parts and breaks and favors now are playing the me too card for a boost to their careers is a shame and detracts from real victims of violence out there. 

That should be the thread theme. Using the movement as a platform to garner attention for yourself is gross. 

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Dark_Grey
16 hours ago, Habitat said:

And I am surprised no-one reacted to the OP's suggestion that a certain actress reached fame by dispensing sexual favours, I'd be loath to say something like that about anyone, without solid proof.

Hey the proof is in the pudding. Those award shows are all political - have you seen some of their choices for best film, best actress, etc. over the past few years? You don't have to be a film critique to know when they are ignoring gold in favor of manure. Not to mention the Hollywood elites patting themselves on the back for nominating/celebrating "black achievements in film". It's all politics. So yes, I do think that a mediocre actress holding an Academy Award at a young age is suspect.

Leonardo DiCaprio didn't receive an Academy Award until 2016 and he's been in moves since 1991. Are you going to tell me Jennifer Lawrence is a better actor? C'mon son. She did what she had to do and it clearly paid off.

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aztek

yep, i agree, proof is right in from of our eyes

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aztek
15 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Coercion =/= consent

  if they agreed to sex for roles, it IS consent

Edited by aztek

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Katniss

Honestly I think the real regret for most women is giving in. Like they were convinced it was their only choice to get to the top. And really they are angry with themselves for giving in, but they want to put all the blame on the person for putting them into that no way out position.

I have been in one situation like that with one boss. He wanted sexual favors, but I didn't give in. So I didn't get the supervisor job I wanted. But that's just the way it goes and I don't regret not giving into him and losing the higher position. Because I chose a different career after that and I'm glad I did. I like my new career much better.

Edited by Katniss
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Dark_Grey
47 minutes ago, Katniss said:

Honestly I think the real regret for most women is giving in. Like they were convinced it was their only choice to get to the top. And really they are angry with themselves for giving in, but they want to put all the blame on the person for putting them into that no way out position.

I have been in one situation like that with one boss. He wanted sexual favors, but I didn't give in. So I didn't get the supervisor job I wanted. But that's just the way it goes and I don't regret not giving into him and losing the higher position. Because I chose a different career after that and I'm glad I did. I like my new career much better.

Well said. "Giving in" to achieve a successful career in Hollywood is essentially selling your soul. What are you willing to do to get that posh celebrity life? Some women (and men,) are willing to anything to serve their ego. 

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skliss

Sooooo..... I get confused. Aren't many on the left for legalizing prostitution? Isn't sex for favours basically the same thing? If those directors or producers gave them straight up cash they'd be all good with it. I think in either case it's soul crushing. 

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Habitat
7 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Hey the proof is in the pudding. Those award shows are all political - have you seen some of their choices for best film, best actress, etc. over the past few years? You don't have to be a film critique to know when they are ignoring gold in favor of manure. Not to mention the Hollywood elites patting themselves on the back for nominating/celebrating "black achievements in film". It's all politics. So yes, I do think that a mediocre actress holding an Academy Award at a young age is suspect.

Leonardo DiCaprio didn't receive an Academy Award until 2016 and he's been in moves since 1991. Are you going to tell me Jennifer Lawrence is a better actor? C'mon son. She did what she had to do and it clearly paid off.

I'll leave you to jump to those conclusions, I simply would not know, and not being a movie fan, can't tell whether the acting is good or bad. I don't really care if women throw themselves at rich and powerful men, or allow those men to throw themselves at them, when were they not so influential, they would complaining to police. Those people are traders, and ought not attract anyone's sympathies, when they perceive the bargain wasn't fulfilled to their satisfaction, and start bringing it into the public eye, years later. The people we should feel for are those being subjected to unwanted attention, who are just trying to hold on to a job they already have, or one they have applied for, and have no intention to compromise themselves.

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Tatetopa
20 hours ago, and then said:

With the coming of # me too?  Absolutely.  I'm not advocating that anyone engaging in sex for benefits be excused.  NEITHER side.  Those who are worse, IMO, are the ones who took the easy route to a career by selling their body, THEN trying to crucify the person they sold themselves to.

That is what I am uncertain of.  Selling your body is one thing.  No recriminations.  No room for regrets.  Having your body taken against your will even if you were foolish enough to trust somebody is not the same.  I haven't busied myself with many of these stories, but what I have heard in the end seems to resolve in some amount of force.

But lets stick to the clearer cases: the Uber driver who told the cops raping drunk passengers was one of the perks.  Getting people drunk or drugged to incapacity, at parties and social events.  For most men of average characteristics, willing partners are not impossible to find.  Resorting to coercion or rape is not what an honorable man would do.  You may think it corny or naive, but honor and doing what is right is also your best protection 

\

I am disgusted btw with HRC claiming that Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky was not an abuse of power because she was 21.

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aztek
Just now, Habitat said:

I'll leave you to jump to those conclusions, I simply would not know, and not being a movie fan, can't tell whether the acting is good or bad.

the post you replied to was about J Lawrence vs l DiCaprio, you do not need to be movie critic or a crazy fan to see who is a better actor

Edited by aztek

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aztek
Just now, Tatetopa said:

I am disgusted btw with HRC claiming that Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky was not an abuse of power because she was 21.

and i kinda agree with her, iirc correctly she came on to him. it is pretty common for young girls to throw themselves at older men with power\money.  if bill told her "i'm the prez, you have to blow me" than i'd agree it was an abuse of power. but it was not the case

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WickedMick

Isn't this a site about unexplained mysteries? Seriously....this whole #metoo mess has gotten way out of hand. 

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