Eldorado Posted October 16, 2018 #1 Share Posted October 16, 2018 There has been a surge in hate crime directed at people because of their religious beliefs, new figures show. Police in England and Wales say there has been an increase of 40% compared with last year's figures. Most religious hate crime - 52% of all offences - was aimed at Muslims. The total number of hate incidents reached a record 94,098, from April 2017 to March this year - a rise of 17%. More than three-quarters (76%) of those were classified as "race hate". Full shame: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45874265 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted October 16, 2018 #2 Share Posted October 16, 2018 OK.. I'm confused. The article states that there is a huge increase in religious hate crimes. But later on , it states that "... Today's figures are the first official national count of the perceived religious target of a hate crime since ministers ordered all police forces to keep a tally. " So if this is the first time that figures have been compiled, how can it represent an increase on previous years ? I was also intrigued - and highly amused - to note that 237 of the 'RELIGIOUS hate crimes' where against "... no religion at all". How can that constitute a religious hate crime if it is committed against somebody who HAS no religion ? This whole 'hate crime' thing smacks of left-wing social engineering to me. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted October 16, 2018 #3 Share Posted October 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: was also intrigued - and highly amused - to note that 237 of the 'RELIGIOUS hate crimes' where against "... no religion at all". How can that constitute a religious hate crime if it is committed against somebody who HAS no religion ? Easy. Group of people who are religious take out religiously motivated actions against groups that are not religious. The motivator is the religion of the actors. Not the victims. Religious hate crimes are basically attacks by one group against someone who believes differently. That group can be another religion or non religious, or adherents of the same religion but reformed on the 31st of October instead of the 30th. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted October 16, 2018 Author #4 Share Posted October 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: OK.. I'm confused. The article states......... Here's much the same article from the Telegraph. The data is from the (Conservative) Home Office. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/hate-crime-linked-religion-doubled-three-years/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted October 16, 2018 #5 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Eldorado said: Here's much the same article from the Telegraph. The data is from the (Conservative) Home Office. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/hate-crime-linked-religion-doubled-three-years/ Note that the Home Office is a civil service operation, not a political one. So the (Labour) Home Office is the same as the (Conservative) Home Office is the same as the (Raving Loony Party) Home Office Nevertheless, the data is both slightly puzzling, and slightly annoying. Edited October 16, 2018 by RoofGardener 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #6 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Quote Most religious hate crime - 52% of all offences - was aimed at Muslims. Absolute rubbish! How about the figures show the hate portrayed towards westerners from certain muslim groups and in certain muslim areas. This poll is from 2006 and since then there had been a rise in muslim only areas and areas which are practising sharia law. 12 years on and the children are now 12 years older and have been brought up under the muslim ways and many living in muslim areas and bringing their children up to also hate the west. Quote Poll shows Muslims in Britain are the most anti-western in Europe https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion What we are seeing today is the media cowering from telling it how it really is in certain areas, everything is not all hunky dory for non muslims in areas like this This is not a western culture and it is not welcome by many westerners. I do not hate the person wearing it, i do not agree with them doing so. They have no respect on how we feel in this area of the world, because their intention is to continue with their barbaric religious lifestyle and have no intentions of integration. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted October 16, 2018 #7 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, freetoroam said: Absolute rubbish! How about the figures show the hate portrayed towards westerners from certain muslim groups and in certain muslim areas. This poll is from 2006 and since then there had been a rise in muslim only areas and areas which are practising sharia law. 12 years on and the children are now 12 years older and have been brought up under the muslim ways and many living in muslim areas and bringing their children up to also hate the west. What we are seeing today is the media cowering from telling it how it really is in certain areas, everything is not all hunky dory for non muslims in areas like this This is not a western culture and it is not welcome by many westerners. I do not hate the person wearing it, i do not agree with them doing so. They have no respect on how we feel in this area of the world, because their intention is to continue with their barbaric religious lifestyle and have no intentions of integration. Been really amusing seeing folks living in Britain in the so called no go areas that keep getting brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted October 16, 2018 #8 Share Posted October 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, ShadowSot said: Been really amusing seeing folks living in Britain in the so called no go areas that keep getting brought up. Amusing how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #9 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, ShadowSot said: Been really amusing seeing folks living in Britain in the so called no go areas that keep getting brought up. There are no "no go" areas in Britain, everyone has the right to go where ever they like, how the people of that area treat you is the issue. I do not see any area as a no go, i have every right to walk or drive down any public street BUT when stopped and have to wait til the streets are cleared because they are praying and have blocked the roads and the police do nothing about it, then that will come under no-go. Have you ever been to Smallheath in Birmingham? During their praying time the streets are blocked, this is illegal in British law, but the police do nothing! And this happens in many other areas and they get away with it. They completely disregard our laws!! THAT is how much they give a damn about our country. The problem we have today is if someone says they do not agree with the veil being worn here, it will get notched as a hate crime, but if a muslim says they will not follow western laws as they follow sharia and call us infidels then that is not seen as hate towards the west!!!! I am not anti muslim, i am anti anyone who has no intention on integration and living peacefully with their fellow man. As it happens the latest terrorist attacks against innocent people in the UK have been by muslims. Sharia areas are not a form of integrating into the western lifestyle. Edited October 16, 2018 by freetoroam 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted October 16, 2018 #10 Share Posted October 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: Amusing how? For example the repeated claims of police being to scared to set foot or not patrolling the areas, coupled with chiming in by locals of number of cops spotted at local intersections. Claims streets are completely taken over by sharia law, met with a fellow buying pork off the street vendor on said street. Of course their point isn't that there's no violence at all by Muslims, or that that everything is perfectly fine. Rather that the bated fears raised are massively overblown in response. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #11 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, ShadowSot said: For example the repeated claims of police being to scared to set foot or not patrolling the areas IT IS NOT A CLAIM. They do nothing during ramadam when streets and roads are illegally being blocked by people doing their prayers. There can not be one rule for one and not the other just because they are religious. I am not religious, which means i have to follow the law otherwise i will get fined, this is complete and utter discrimination against non religious people for the fact that muslims can park where ever they blooming well like because they want to pray. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted October 16, 2018 #12 Share Posted October 16, 2018 59 minutes ago, freetoroam said: How about the figures show the hate portrayed towards westerners from certain muslim groups and in certain muslim areas That isn't a hate crime though. Whole different topic. This is about the level of hate crime. Hate crimes are normal crimes (e.g. Assault, vandalism etc.) but where the victim was targeted solely due to a protected characteristic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted October 16, 2018 #13 Share Posted October 16, 2018 32 minutes ago, freetoroam said: The problem we have today is if someone says they do not agree with the veil being worn here, it will get notched as a hate crime, No, it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #14 Share Posted October 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, Setton said: No, it won't. Yes it will. It will and does get classed as verbal abuse. We have seen violence used by muslims on innocent people, but i do not see the list of violence used against muslims just because of their belief. So what people feel is being included ad a hate crime. These reports are created by stats, how many do you think were classed as verbal abuse when in fact it was someone voicing their dislike to the veil and the muslim calling it abuse? Quote It can include verbal abuse, intimidation, threats, harassment, assault and bullying, as well as damage to property. I do not see bombings or grooming and rape of young western girls on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kartikg Posted October 16, 2018 #15 Share Posted October 16, 2018 58 minutes ago, freetoroam said: There are no "no go" areas in Britain, everyone has the right to go where ever they like, how the people of that area treat you is the issue. I do not see any area as a no go, i have every right to walk or drive down any public street BUT when stopped and have to wait til the streets are cleared because they are praying and have blocked the roads and the police do nothing about it, then that will come under no-go. Have you ever been to Smallheath in Birmingham? During their praying time the streets are blocked, this is illegal in British law, but the police do nothing! And this happens in many other areas and they get away with it. They completely disregard our laws!! THAT is how much they give a damn about our country. The problem we have today is if someone says they do not agree with the veil being worn here, it will get notched as a hate crime, but if a muslim says they will not follow western laws as they follow sharia and call us infidels then that is not seen as hate towards the west!!!! I am not anti muslim, i am anti anyone who has no intention on integration and living peacefully with their fellow man. As it happens the latest terrorist attacks against innocent people in the UK have been by muslims. Sharia areas are not a form of integrating into the western lifestyle. No go areas does not necessarily mean you can't go there, it's just that life won't be easy there for you. Example if you want to buy an property there you would have a hard time because you would be quoted way more than market prices, cabs would refuse to pick you up, you might be jeered or harassed slightly, comments passed on you etc etc. In short you would be made feel uncomfortable and unwelcomed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #16 Share Posted October 16, 2018 26 minutes ago, Setton said: That isn't a hate crime though. Whole different topic. This is about the level of hate crime. Hate crimes are normal crimes (e.g. Assault, vandalism etc.) but where the victim was targeted solely due to a protected characteristic. So you think a level of hate crime does not count because it is done against a westerner? We can discuss hate crimes because it does not reach the level of rape and grooming of young British girls - which as we have seen, is not something we can discuss without it being wooshed or you being arrested. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #17 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, kartikg said: No go areas does not necessarily mean you can't go there, it's just that life won't be easy there for you. Example if you want to buy an property there you would have a hard time because you would be quoted way more than market prices, cabs would refuse to pick you up, you might be jeered or harassed slightly, comments passed on you etc etc. In short you would be made feel uncomfortable and unwelcomed. Absolutely, but ShadowSot finds that amusing. It is the sheer speed at which areas are flourishing in certain parts which are filled with halal shops, mosques, illegal parking and very little sign of any western lifestyle. A complete disregard to western laws and basically getting away with it is my biggest gripe. I do not actually blame the muslims alone for that, i also blame the yellow bellied lefties and those getting back handers for keeping their mouths shut and turning a blind eye. Edited October 16, 2018 by freetoroam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted October 16, 2018 #18 Share Posted October 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, freetoroam said: So you think a level of hate crime does not count because it is done against a westerner? .... Unfortunately Freetoroam, that is pretty much what the law says. Only special "protected groups" are recognised as potential victims of "hate crime". Oh, and black people can't be racist, dontcha know ? Because because because because White Privilege Slavery Donald Trump DONALD TRUMP aaaaaaaargh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted October 16, 2018 #19 Share Posted October 16, 2018 26 minutes ago, freetoroam said: So you think a level of hate crime does not count because it is done against a westerner? And where the hell did I say that? If it's a hate crime, it's a hate crime. Whoever the victim. Quote We can discuss hate crimes because it does not reach the level of rape and grooming of young British girls - which as we have seen, is not something we can discuss without it being wooshed or you being arrested. We have seen that and it is a horrific crime. It is not a hate crime, however. Unless those girls were targeted because of a protected characteristic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted October 16, 2018 #20 Share Posted October 16, 2018 37 minutes ago, freetoroam said: Yes it will. It will and does get classed as verbal abuse. Source please. And remember your claim was just for saying they do not agree with the veil being worn. Nothing more. The rest was just more proof that you don't understand the definition of a hate crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #21 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Setton said: Source please. And remember your claim was just for saying they do not agree with the veil being worn. Nothing more. Here, in the original article: Quote Hate crime is defined as an offence which the victim considers to be driven by hostility towards their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or transgender identity. Hence why i put this: Quote These reports are created by stats, how many do you think were classed as verbal abuse when in fact it was someone voicing their dislike to the veil and the muslim calling it abuse? The article is about hate crimes but it is based on their stats and they are putting it down to: Quote The Home Office report said the large increases "may suggest that increases are due to the improvements made by the police into their identification and recording of hate crime offences and more people coming forward to report these crimes rather than a genuine increase". So the increase in reports are due to the police and there is not an actual.increase.....which brings me back to how and what they will consider a hate crime, it is the reports being made and my point is, people are calling all sorts a hate crime just because they consider it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #22 Share Posted October 16, 2018 45 minutes ago, Setton said: It is not a hate crime, however. Unless those girls were targeted because of a protected characteristic. Their age, race and gender are protected characteristic. And grooming does fall into these too: Quote It can include verbal abuse, intimidation, threats, harassment, assault and bullying, as well as damage to property. Ok, no damage to property, but it is damage to their bodies and minds. I get what you are saying about levels, there are different levels, but hate is hate and should not be split so 'sharply'. From what can start out as frustration can turn to hate, from what starts out as being too sensitive can also turn to hate. And what some see as hate, is nothing compared to what should be acted upon in other cases. protected characteristics? Hate crime are big a word to use, when it becomes physical and mental , which can happen very quickly, then this is when the crime part should come into play, i can understand prevention and protection, but crime??? Things can escalate very quickly from bullying, abuse and threats, etc into actual crimes of assault, so if they believe they can stop the escalation by classing the built up as a crime, i can understand that, but they can not then turn a blind eye to people disregarding our laws because they are religious, this causes the hostility. How far will they go with their list of "protected characteristic" before people will start reporting you for trivial things.....note the article above, "more people coming forward to report these crimes rather than a genuine increase". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted October 16, 2018 #23 Share Posted October 16, 2018 So I did check with some people who live in the area. They described the mobs blocking traffic FreetoRoam describes as about the same as what happens when you get from people leaving church. And yes there were two major events there, though it seems they both had permits, and were similar to what happens around Easter and Christmas. And bit hard to claim it's ruled by Sharia law when pork is being sold on the street and non - Muslim women aren't forced to cover. Of course I could assume these are all staged ot something, I guess. Two very different narratives, and frankly I lean to the ones who are taking pictures of themselves out on the streets over someone ranting about mass hysteria. Grooming is not considered a hate crime, it's a specific crime u to itself and handled differently. It's hardly a Muslim only concern, as found recently after exposes on the likes of Saville and various priests and cardinals and popes. Rapes are predominantly committed against women, but are not themselves considered hate crimes, nor is it when women are charged with raping men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Area Posted October 16, 2018 #24 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, freetoroam said: IT IS NOT A CLAIM. They do nothing during ramadam when streets and roads are illegally being blocked by people doing their prayers. There can not be one rule for one and not the other just because they are religious. I am not religious, which means i have to follow the law otherwise i will get fined, this is complete and utter discrimination against non religious people for the fact that muslims can park where ever they blooming well like because they want to pray. It’s this tired old argument again, it’s great to see you pinning the definition of no go areas. By your definition my Road is a no go area every week day morning and afternoon at the local school. By your definition the whole of Birmingham is a no go area twice a day for a couple of hours. That you choose to make this ‘illegal activity’ purpetrated almost universally a Muslim problem is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted October 16, 2018 #25 Share Posted October 16, 2018 46 minutes ago, Grey Area said: It’s this tired old argument again, it’s great to see you pinning the definition of no go areas. By your definition my Road is a no go area every week day morning and afternoon at the local school. By your definition the whole of Birmingham is a no go area twice a day for a couple of hours. That you choose to make this ‘illegal activity’ purpetrated almost universally a Muslim problem is sad. You ever been to Smallheath? I did not mention the whole of Birmingham. It does happen in other areas at ramadam when they completely disregard the UK law.and actually get away with it! They have stopped on the hard shoulder to pray too...again you are not allowed to stop on the hard shoulder unless you have had a breakdown, even then you have to stand on the verge, this lot are praying on the hard shoulder ffs! One rule for law abiding citizens and no rules for those who disregard them because of their religion. I used to work in a department store where they would pray on the fire exit stairwell, they ended up getting their own prayer rooms. They will one day get everything they want, and it does not involve integration, it means sharia law and an islamic country, non believers will not be welcome and like muslim countries you will have to abide by their laws. I do not choose to make this ‘illegal activity’ purpetrated almost universally a Muslim problem....it is not their problem, it is them making it ours and they are the only ones who do it here. France have also had this problem. We are western countries and do not allow this on our streets, but a blind eye is being turned because of their religion. It is only illegal if you are not praying, that is not right! I am not making this up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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