Cause of the Bölling-Allerød & Younger-Dryas?

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

I spend most of my childhood a few kilometres from Allerød. I had no idea that a small municipality like that had given its name to a geological event.

[Kenemet]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

you seemed to have had a problem with Schoch dating of the sphinx, thou...

That's an artifact, not a geological formation.

[Kenemet]

15 hours ago, danydandan said:

That website states that vibrations caused this as a result apsidal motion!

What the hell is apsidal motion?

I looked it up.  It refers to orbital mechanics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsidal_precession

 

[Kenemet]

15 hours ago, danydandan said:

Of course no such occurrences of dramatic temperature swings has occurred in the last ten thousand yesrs according to that data, so I don't get the point. So it has nothing to do with 'apasidal motion' or vibrations.

I'd agree.  If apsidal precession was involved, we'd see the pattern repeating itself and similar patterns arising.  We're not seeing that.

[Essan]

Well there are recurring patterns based on the Milankovitch Cycles - which I think is what we're really talking about here.   And that probably explains the warming that ended the last glacial (and, indeed, the pre-AGW cooling of the past few thousand years).   As for the specifics of this thread, the only issue is the Younger Dryas cold period which interrupted that warming - and the sudden release of glacial meltwater into the Atlantic explains that.     The only issue then is whether something extra-terrestrial caused that sudden surge of fresh water into the Atlantic, or whether it was just a (series of) massive dam bursts from Lake Agassiz that occurred "naturally".   The Clovis Comet hypothesis champions the former explanation, but the jury is, IMO, still out on that, with the balance of evidence at present firmly suggesting no such impact occurred (I am not entirely ruling the possibility of some sort of impact out, just because some of the evidence suggested in favour ofr it has been found to be flawed and/or lacking, but I am certainly not convinced of it).

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Essan

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Essan said:

Well there are recurring patterns based on the Milankovitch Cycles - which I think is what we're really talking about here.   And that probably explains the warming that ended the last glacial (and, indeed, the pre-AGW cooling of the past few thousand years).   As for the specifics of this thread, the only issue is the Younger Dryas cold period which interrupted that warming - and the sudden release of glacial meltwater into the Atlantic explains that.     The only issue then is whether something extra-terrestrial caused that sudden surge of fresh water into the Atlantic, or whether it was just a (series of) massive dam bursts from Lake Agassiz that occurred "naturally".   The Clovis Comet hypothesis champions the former explanation, but the jury is, IMO, still out on that, with the balance of evidence at present firmly suggesting no such impact occurred (I am not entirely ruling the possibility of some sort of impact out, just because some of the evidence suggested in favour ofr it has been found to be flawed and/or lacking, but I am certainly not convinced of it).

 

There was more than Lake Agassiz-Ojibway. There was also Missoula, Iroquois, Hudson and several other dam bursts I can't remember.

I actually was hoping to find comet evidence.  But looking into the Cheasapeake-Toms River event and finding out the chunks of meteor found on the Batsto River and Greenwich Harbor came from there I really had my doubts.  Now I have no doubt it was just all that fresh water pouring into the oceans and the damp air from all those massive lakes drying out. 

[jesshill]

Just a quick lunch break to check on you guys.

I noticed that several comments seem to suggest that author Robert Schoch was mistaken or misinformed when he offered a “plasma outburst” as a likely explanation for the Pre-Boreal warming event which occurred about 9,700 BCE. That gave me pause. But, then I recalled reading an article at the following link that describes a peer-reviewed paper in journal Nature (May 9.2018 issue) that speaks about a newly found type of plasma-related event.

Scientists discover a new type of magnetic event

 

Quote

 

They were working with spacecraft data, using a new technique to analyze it. They found a new type of magnetic event in the realm just beyond the boundary of Earth’s magnetic field.

Space scientists recently uncovered a new type of magnetic event in the near-Earth environment. The new event happens just outside the outer boundary of Earth’s magnetosphere – the sphere around Earth within which our world’s magnetic field is the dominant field – in a region called the magnetosheath. Scientists using an innovative technique to squeeze extra information out of existing data learned that a process known as magnetic reconnection takes place in the magnetosheath. They reported their new discovery in a study in the peer-reviewed journal Nature on May 9, 2018.”

 

The article describes an X-45 class solar event that occurred on 114/4/2003, which was said to be the largest solar event ever recorded. Then continued…

Quote

 

“Every step leading to these intense storms – the flare, the CME, the transfer of energy from the CME to Earth’s magnetosphere – was ultimately driven by the catalyst of magnetic reconnection. To a solar physicist, magnetic reconnection was the ultimate process driving the 2003 Halloween solar storms, which were so powerful that people saw auroras (northern lights) as far south as Texas and Florida.

So you see magnetic reconnection is one of the most important processes in outer space, which is why scientists want to learn as much about it as they can. The new discovery found magnetic reconnection where it’s never been seen before — in turbulent plasma.”

 

NASA's website also has an article that describes a 7/23/2012 solar event that, if it had happened 5-days earlier, it could have brought our technologically-based society to it knees.

Quote

A similar storm today could have a catastrophic effect. According to a study by the National Academy of Sciences, the total economic impact could exceed $2 trillion or 20 times greater than the costs of a Hurricane Katrina. Multi-ton transformers damaged by such a storm might take years to repair.

"In my view the July 2012 storm was in all respects at least as strong as the 1859 Carrington event," says Baker. "The only difference is, it missed."

In February 2014, physicist Pete Riley of Predictive Science Inc. published a paper in Space Weather entitled "On the probability of occurrence of extreme space weather events."  In it, he analyzed records of solar storms going back 50+ years.  By extrapolating the frequency of ordinary storms to the extreme, he calculated the odds that a Carrington-class storm would hit Earth in the next ten years.

The answer: 12%.

 

More…..

What your take on the articles?

[Essan]

The last major solar burst to hit Earth was the Carrington event.   If it happened today it could seriously affect satellites, communications, power and other things due to our reliance on technology we didn't have 150 years ago.  Back then, no-one even noticed it happening .....  It had no effect on climate.

[Unusual Tournament]

8 hours ago, Kenemet said:

That's an artifact, not a geological formation.

it’s an artifact that’s also a geological structure. You’re being inconsistent.

[Oniomancer]

17 hours ago, danydandan said:

Wow. People actually believe this crap?

And more. This is the first I've seen Schoch's name associated with this though. It's generally attached to the so-called Electric Universe theory and parts of it apparently go back at least to Velikovsky.. Notice Schoch's mainly parroting Paratt. I think even Hancock coopted some of this, preferring to lay the blame on a comet.

[Kenemet]

6 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

it’s an artifact that’s also a geological structure. You’re being inconsistent.

Nope.  I would trust him to identify something plus or minus a few million years -- in other words, to be able to place it within the Cretaceous.  But the sphinx was not created by natural processes.  I don't trust his dating on artifacts.  He's not trained for that.

[Kenemet]

9 hours ago, jesshill said:

Just a quick lunch break to check on you guys.

I noticed that several comments seem to suggest that author Robert Schoch was mistaken or misinformed when he offered a “plasma outburst” as a likely explanation for the Pre-Boreal warming event which occurred about 9,700 BCE. That gave me pause. But, then I recalled reading an article at the following link that describes a peer-reviewed paper in journal Nature (May 9.2018 issue) that speaks about a newly found type of plasma-related event.

Scientists discover a new type of magnetic event

 

The article describes an X-45 class solar event that occurred on 114/4/2003, which was said to be the largest solar event ever recorded. Then continued…

NASA's website also has an article that describes a 7/23/2012 solar event that, if it had happened 5-days earlier, it could have brought our technologically-based society to it knees.

 

More…..

What your take on the articles?

The events would create lovely auroras farther south than they'd been seen in a long while... but beyond that have no impact. 

The Electric Universe idea is pretty much in the same category as the Flat Earth idea.

[danydandan]

35 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

The events would create lovely auroras farther south than they'd been seen in a long while... but beyond that have no impact. 

The Electric Universe idea is pretty much in the same category as the Flat Earth idea.

I think it's worse than the flat Earth idea.

[jules99]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

The events would create lovely auroras farther south than they'd been seen in a long while... but beyond that have no impact. 

The Electric Universe idea is pretty much in the same category as the Flat Earth idea.

OK So your saying space weather has no impact on earth weather?....

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

20 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

you seemed to have had a problem with Schoch dating of the sphinx, thou...

That’s only because of thr age difference, Schoch is in his 60s and thr Sphinx is several thousand years old - talk about being a cougar.

[Piney]

23 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

That’s only because of thr age difference, Schoch is in his 60s and thr Sphinx is several thousand years old - talk about being a cougar.

Did you notice that none of these "disasters" affected the indigenous Australians. It was never recorded in the Dream Time accounts. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

27 minutes ago, Piney said:

Did you notice that none of these "disasters" affected the indigenous Australians. It was never recorded in the Dream Time accounts. 

Nor do they have reptile people, underground mysteries or legends of smart fellas from the sky.

[danydandan]

56 minutes ago, jules99 said:

OK So your saying space weather has no impact on earth weather?....

You mean the sun's effect on the weather here? Because its quite evident that our whole weather system is dependent upon the sun. Whether that's heat, or whatever. The Moons gravity effects the tides which in turn effect weather too.

But as far as solar winds and Imfs it has little to no effect on Earths weather as trivial amounts of energy from space weather enters the troposphere and stratosphere.

But there is that Maunder Minimum thingy regarding sun spots and effects on temperature, but it's never been observed.

[jules99]

6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

trivial amounts of energy from space weather enters the troposphere and stratosphere

"The duration of solar minimum may also have an impact on Earth's climate. During solar minimum there is a maximum in the amount of Cosmic rays, high energy particles whose source is outside our Solar system, reaching earth. There is a theory that cosmic rays can create nucleation sites in the atmosphere which seed cloud formation and create cloudier conditions. If this were true, then there would be a significant impact on climate, which would be modulated by the 11-year solar cycle."

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/impacts/space-weather-impacts-climate

[Unusual Tournament]

3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Nope.  I would trust him to identify something plus or minus a few million years -- in other words, to be able to place it within the Cretaceous.  But the sphinx was not created by natural processes.  I don't trust his dating on artifacts.  He's not trained for that.

well I'm not gonna argue with you even when you're wrong. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

That’s only because of thr age difference, Schoch is in his 60s and thr Sphinx is several thousand years old - talk about being a cougar.

don't you think the sphinx is amanther? 

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

well I'm not gonna argue with you even when you're wrong. 

Nice...... 

......and you went to Egypt and checked the dating yourself?  Because she was there. 

Because Shoch's "Plasma Theory"  would mean we are all extinct.  

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

Did you notice that none of these "disasters" affected the indigenous Australians. It was never recorded in the Dream Time accounts. 

i don't think that the native Australians were much for recording events.   

[Piney]

Just now, Captain Risky said:

i don't think that the native Australians were much for recording events.   

Well, they recorded megafauna that was extinct for 15 to 20 thousand years. 

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Piney said:

Nice...... 

......and you went to Egypt and checked the dating yourself?  Because she was there. 

Because Shoch's "Plasma Theory"  would mean we are all extinct.  

Shoch went and dated it so thats enough for me... unless of course you're suggesting that Kenemet and you know better than Shoch?