Putin Says ISIS Has Taken 700 Hostages

[Helen of Annoy]

14 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

And Russia isn't ? 

Of course, but it's permanent in their case, while it's relatively new for the US, in this extent of failure. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

My feelings? You make me laugh; that's not so bad. What the US has done in Syria is the same thing your hero Putin has done in Crimea and East Ukraine: created a frozen conflict as a guarantor of peace and safety in the territories in question. We are in the mopping up faze with ISIS, at this point in time. The only thing being screwed up is Russia and their lapdog's plans.

You should read some of my posts regarding Ukraine before thinking of talking to me again, and that talking to me again will start with an apology. 

How egocentric can you guys be? Do you even know where is my country, what damage and loss we had as your ****ing proxy and how painfully personal is our identification with Ukraine? 

If you didn't know, you should ask me first. 

Or is that condition Trump has transmittable, so now his supporters will go around offending soon to be former allies too? If no one told you yet, let me inform you: when you do that, you are working for Putin too.   

[+Hammerclaw]

41 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Of course, but it's permanent in their case, while it's relatively new for the US, in this extent of failure. 

 

 

You should read some of my posts regarding Ukraine before thinking of talking to me again, and that talking to me again will start with an apology. 

How egocentric can you guys be? Do you even know where is my country, what damage and loss we had as your ****ing proxy and how painfully personal is our identification with Ukraine? 

If you didn't know, you should ask me first. 

Or is that condition Trump has transmittable, so now his supporters will go around offending soon to be former allies too? If no one told you yet, let me inform you: when you do that, you are working for Putin too.   

So are you. You throw the baby out with the bathwater. You blow hot and cold too often on that topic to take serious. Whose natural gas heats your home this winter? You are treated as fairly as you treat his supporters; seems quite equitable to me. 

[Helen of Annoy]

19 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

So are you. You throw the baby out with the bathwater. You blow hot and cold too often on that topic to take serious. Whose natural gas heats your home this winter? You are treated as fairly as you treat his supporters; seems quite equitable to me. 

My country has own natural gas. There was a chance we will import some through LNGs, but I think it dropped significantly since US is not reliable business partner anymore. Ah, well, isolationism is what you wanted, you are about to have it. Of course you won't like it, but that's your problem.

Now, let's go back to your utter failure with your grave ignorance about the identical situation in my country 20tish years ago and Ukraine today.

How is it even possible for you think about commenting certain situation if you are so completely clueless about it?  I know Trump does that daily, but sane people are laughing at him because of that. Do you really want to be laughed at?     

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

My country has own natural gas. There was a chance we will import some through LNGs, but I think it dropped significantly since US is not reliable business partner anymore. Ah, well, isolationism is what you wanted, you are about to have it. Of course you won't like it, but that's your problem.

Now, let's go back to your utter failure with your grave ignorance about the identical situation in my country 20tish years ago and Ukraine today.

How is it even possible for you think about commenting certain situation if you are so completely clueless about it?  I know Trump does that daily, but sane people are laughing at him because of that. Do you really want to be laughed at?     

If I laugh, too, I'm not being laughed at, I'm being laughed with. Please, now enlighten me. Explain how a former Vassal State of the Tito regime became our proxy--and against who's proxy.

[Helen of Annoy]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

If I laugh, too, I'm not being laughed at, I'm being laughed with. Please, now enlighten me. Explain how a former Vassal State of the Tito regime became our proxy--and against who's proxy.

You can't be that ignorant. Where were you for the past 30 years? Paid no attention to any news from Europe? It would be all right, why would you, but don't comment it then and especially do not try to use it against people who are that part of the history. 

In the shortest: my country broke ex-Yu, with intention to have free elections, usual democracy and join the West, was attacked by former JNA (Serbian communist party controlled army), we somehow defended ourselves after 4 years of more-less war and we're probably about to have another war against Russian-backed Serbian expansionists. I skipped all the dirty details so you don't lose the plot. 

Serbs (neighbouring ex-Yu country that had priviledged status over other ex-Yu republics) are moaning to this day that Croatia wouldn't win the war if we had no American help. Which is, sadly, not true. It would be faster and with prettier explosions if Americans really were bothered to help openly.   

Clearer?    

[+Hammerclaw]

38 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

You can't be that ignorant. Where were you for the past 30 years? Paid no attention to any news from Europe? It would be all right, why would you, but don't comment it then and especially do not try to use it against people who are that part of the history. 

In the shortest: my country broke ex-Yu, with intention to have free elections, usual democracy and join the West, was attacked by former JNA (Serbian communist party controlled army), we somehow defended ourselves after 4 years of more-less war and we're probably about to have another war against Russian-backed Serbian expansionists. I skipped all the dirty details so you don't lose the plot. 

Serbs (neighbouring ex-Yu country that had priviledged status over other ex-Yu republics) are moaning to this day that Croatia wouldn't win the war if we had no American help. Which is, sadly, not true. It would be faster and with prettier explosions if Americans really were bothered to help openly.   

Clearer?    

So, helping you made you our proxy? No, we had no desire to make war on Serbia and bomb Belgrade. We were sucked into Yugoslavia's internecine conflict because if the genocidal atrocities committed by extremists, under the NATO flag. Obviously, only the peace of the gun held the whole rickety affair together; little wonder it all fell apart when  Josip Broz Tito died.

Serbia attack you? Why would they commit national suicide, when you have the Mighty EU there to succor you? Seriously and with all snide ripostes aside, No one here would want that to happen to you, would allow that to happen to you. You are no unknown people in a far away land about whom we know nothing--not anymore. You are kith and kin and if you call for us, we will answer.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Hammerclaw

[LucidElement]

Im not sure i believe that. I think its Putin just stirring the pot. ISIS has been kicked back to the depths of hell. Of course they are still out there, but they are no where near as strong as the were. They have lost pretty much all of their territories and those territiories were used to hide hostages, execute, train militants etc. These guys are still hiding trying to figure out a better option to try and move forward which I believe wont happen. US Led coalition just struck two ISIS command centers within mosques. Cheers! These A-holes are getting blasted left and right.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/22/politics/us-struck-isis-mosques/index.html

[Helen of Annoy]

14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

So, helping you made you our proxy? No, we had no desire to make war on Serbia and bomb Belgrade. We were sucked into Yugoslavia's internecine conflict because if the genocidal atrocities committed by extremists, under the NATO flag. Obviously, only the peace of the gun held the whole rickety affair together; little wonder it all fell apart when  Josip Broz Tito died.

Serbia attack you? Why would they commit national suicide, when you have the Mighty EU there to succor you? Seriously and with all snide ripostes aside, No one here would want that to happen to you, would allow that to happen to you. You are no unknown people in a far away land about whom we know nothing--not anymore. You are kith and kin and if you call for us, we will answer.

No, we were your proxy because the Serbian aggression on Croatia was not 'only' a war between two neighbouring countries, it was a conflict between pro-western, NATO-striving, democracy demanding Croatia (on - up to two years ago - your side) and pro-Russian, still communist, ethnically cleansing Serbia on the other.

There were politicians in your country too who thought it should be 'inner Yu problem' - it's one of those dirty details that complicate the story - so we got embargo on weapons instead of help to arm ourselves, but we're resourceful little bunch, just like anyone else driven to the wall. But it doesn't change the extremely obvious situation. 

 

As for the answering, I was very content when my country finally joined NATO, but I don't think you would answer today. Trump is very popular in Serbia, for the Russian reason, and he wouldn't do anything against hysterically pro-Russian Serbian leadership.   

After all, Trump thought NATO members must pay him protection money or he'll just dismiss the thing

So while you are in fact still formally obliged to react when we're attacked, Trump would stand on his head to prevent that.  

Not that it bothers me. It disgusts the **** out of me. 

 

 

edit: by the way, we're off topic for quite a while. how about we leave this for some other, more suitable thread?  

Edited October 23, 2018 by Helen of Annoy

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

No, we were your proxy because the Serbian aggression on Croatia was not 'only' a war between two neighbouring countries, it was a conflict between pro-western, NATO-striving, democracy demanding Croatia (on - up to two years ago - your side) and pro-Russian, still communist, ethnically cleansing Serbia on the other.

There were politicians in your country too who thought it should be 'inner Yu problem' - it's one of those dirty details that complicate the story - so we got embargo on weapons instead of help to arm ourselves, but we're resourceful little bunch, just like anyone else driven to the wall. But it doesn't change the extremely obvious situation. 

 

As for the answering, I was very content when my country finally joined NATO, but I don't think you would answer today. Trump is very popular in Serbia, for the Russian reason, and he wouldn't do anything against hysterically pro-Russian Serbian leadership.   

After all, Trump thought NATO members must pay him protection money or he'll just dismiss the thing

So while you are in fact still formally obliged to react when we're attacked, Trump would stand on his head to prevent that.  

Not that it bothers me. It disgusts the **** out of me. 

No, he would not. Just because a family member chides his siblings to pull their own weight doesn't mean they abandon them, do not care for them, will not help them. We now have troops in the Baltic States, which shows how much we are committed to the freedom of former Warsaw Pact countries. Trump is not America, just her current President and Serbs will find him very unpopular if they rock the boat and cause problems. You seem to come to unwarranted conclusions based on fear and paranoia. Formal obligations be damned! The American people are on your side and we hold all the cards here, not our transient political leaders. They strut and fret their hour on the stage and then are heard, no more.