Unknown Philosopher

[Amita]

Saint-Martin was a heretical, or at least an unconventional Xtian mystic who died in 1803.  Here is how his book (translated from French by Penny) Man: His True Nature & Ministry begins:

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INTRODUCTION

(An Invocation)

When a man of desire, a man who longs for the reign of truth and love, wishes to make himself heard by his fellow-mortals, he is forced to exclaim, "O Sacred Truth, what shall I say to them? I am thy wretched victim, myself; what can I do but sigh for them?

“Thou hast kindled a burning fire within me, which corrodes my whole being.

“A zeal for the repose of the human family – or rather the imperious necessity I feel of this repose, masters and consumes me. I can neither evade it, nor resist it; it torments me continually.

“The worst of all is, that this unhappy zeal is reduced to feed on its own substance and devour itself, - not finding wherewith to appease the hunger thou hast given me to feel for the peace of souls.

“It ends continually in sobs which choke the sound of my voice.

“It allows me no relief, but to plunge me the next moment into new pains, and leave me a prey to my groaning still.

“And thou callest upon me, in this condition, to lift up my voice to my fellow-creatures!!

“Moreover, how can I make myself heard by men of the stream?

“Principles are all I have to offer them; and they will answer with opinions, not to say deceptions, and fascination will make them blind to their dishonesty.

“Whatever edifice I build must be founded on their imperishable being, all shining with eternal splendour; and the last word of their science assimilates them to dead earth.

“I would animate them with a glorious desire to renew their alliance with Universal Unity, by inspiring them with some pride for their birthrights; and they are in arms against that Unity, and seem as if they wished to efface its very existence!

“I would wish, by employing only the Word of Life myself, to induce them also not to make use of a single word which is not vitalized by that inexhaustible life-giving power; and they, by closing their ears to this Word of Life, and refusing its aid, have transformed their tongues into so many instruments of confusion and death!"

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Amita

[Amita]

Quote

(The Answer)

What does Truth answer?

“Timidity, also, is uncleanness ; and one most fruitful in mischief; it may give rise to every error.

“Have confidence in Him who guides you; that confidence will make you clean.

“Do not allow your zeal to be quenched; let it not be given you in vain: who would insure its being ever rekindled?

“You fear men will not profit by your words! – They are starving for the truth. Who can tell if you may not cause some of your brothers to feel the want that devours them unknown to themselves? Few amongst them are so gangrened as to turn their backs upon truth voluntarily; you cannot estimate the power of a pure zeal nourished by confidence.

“Besides, what fisherman expects to catch with his line all the fish in the stream? When he has caught a few for his food, he is content.

“At all events, look beyond this fleeting life, in which the man of desire must sow his works. To the true husbandry, this life is a season of hailstorms and tempest. Such is not the season in which to look for your harvest.

“The labourer sows for the future; look forward, then, in what you do, to the happy time of harvest; for that is the time when the earth and the landlord will repay the sweat of your brow.”

Then the man of desire, the man who longs for the reign of truth and love, resigns himself, and says, " I know that thou art God, concealed in thine own glory; but thou dost not wish to be unknown; thou seekest but to display thy power before our eyes, to teach us to fear and love thee

“Be, then, the Master of my will and my work! Be thou the teacher of those who come to learn from my words !

“Why art thou not the Master of every impulse of men's souls, as thou art, through thy powers, of every movement of Nature, and of every region which has not repelled thy loving hand?”

 

[Podo]

1 hour ago, Amita said:

“I would wish, by employing only the Word of Life myself,

Reminds me of sacred syllable AUM. Otherwise, not sure what the point of this thread is. What are you wanting to discuss?

[Amita]

1 hour ago, Podo said:

Reminds me of sacred syllable AUM. Otherwise, not sure what the point of this thread is. What are you wanting to discuss?

I would like to read the impressions of others who have studied (or at least read) in original French or translations, the thought of Saint-Martin.  I have only a passing familiarity with this Sage's writings.

Another reason is to encourage the study of Saint-Martin by those who find an intuitive pull from any quotes from him I post.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Amita

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Podo said:

Reminds me of sacred syllable AUM. Otherwise, not sure what the point of this thread is. What are you wanting to discuss?

He was a heavy influence on all the Golden Dawn clowns.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Piney

[Amita]

The is another deeper meaning to anthropomorphism, more like 'man is the measure of all things'.  This means the mind & consciousness of the real man, not our emotions & sensations.  Here is Saint-Martin on the superior philosophic value in understanding divinity as innate, which is more likely to produce harmony.

Quote

It must surely be to the glory of our species, and show the great wisdom of Providence, that all the proofs taken in the order of this world are so defective. For, if this world could have truly shown the Divinity, God would have been satisfied with that witness, and have had no need to create Man. In fact, Man was created merely because the whole universe, notwithstanding all the grandeurs it displays to our eyes, never could manifest the riches of Divinity.

A far different effect is produced by those great writers who, in maintaining the existence of God, take Man himself for their proof and the basis of their demonstrations: Man as he should be, at least, if not as he is. Their evidences acquire force and fulness and satisfy all our faculties at once. The evidence drawn from Man is gentle in its effect, and seems to speak the language of our own nature.

That which is drawn from the outside world, is cold and arid, and like a language apart, which requires a laborious study: besides, the more peremptory and decisive this kind of evidence is, the more it humbles our antagonists, and disposes them to hate us.

That which is taken from the nature of Man, on the contrary, even when it obtains a complete victory over the unbeliever, causes him no humiliation, because it places him in a position to feel and partake of all the dignity which belongs to his quality as Man.

 

[+Not A Rockstar]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 6:21 PM, Piney said:

He was a heavy influence on all the Golden Dawn clowns.

Tours or de Porres? 

Lots of Saints get absconded with. Vodou is rife with them :). Just wondered which one GD took up. I googled but didn't find which of the two Martins it was for them.

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Tours or de Porres? 

Lots of Saints get absconded with. Vodou is rife with them :). Just wondered which one GD took up. I googled but didn't find which of the two Martins it was for them.

It was his name. He wasn't actually a saint. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Claude_de_Saint-Martin

[+Not A Rockstar]

My bad. I even have his book here on my desk. So many saints, real names, saint names, it blurs at times. 

Thank you.

[Amita]

Burton Penny also translated in 1863 the Theosophic Correspondence between Louis Claude de Saint-Martin and Baron Kirchberger that too place in the 1790s.  There are over 100 letters between them.

Here is an extract from Saint-Martin's first letter to the Baron:

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I see you have caught the exact meaning of the "active and intelligent Cause," and that of the word "virtues," and I believe that therein lies the radical germ of all knowledge; as to the fruits which ought to follow, they can be born only in accordance with the precise laws of vegetation, in which we are compelled to participate since the fall; and these fruits can be known only as they thus come into existence. You appear too enlightened not to know that the soul of man is the soil in which this germ is sown, and in which, consequently, all the fruits must show themselves. Follow up St. Paul's comparison (1 Cor. c. xv.) between spiritual and corporeal vegetation, and you will see clearly the truth of those words of our Saviour: "Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John iii. 3.) Add only, that this new birth, of which our Saviour speaks, may be effected during our life, whilst St. Paul speaks only of the last resurrection. This is the work we ought all to work at; and if it be laborious, it also is full of the consolations of help given when we courageously and resolutely undertake it. Independently of the chief gardener who sows in us, there are many others who water and prune the tree to help its growth, always under the eye of Divine Wisdom, with the view to ornament His gardens, like all other husbandmen, but who can adorn them only with us, because we are His finest flowers. 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Amita

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Amita said:

Theosophic Correspondence 

Except it wasn't Theosophy. It was Christian Mysticism. Theosophy wasn't invented yet.

[Amita]

2 hours ago, Piney said:

Except it wasn't Theosophy. It was Christian Mysticism. Theosophy wasn't invented yet.

Your prejudice against Blavatsky is blinding you to the simple truth.  The word theosophia or its english version of 'theosophy' was in use long before Blavatsky.  Do your research first, then pontificate.

If you read post #10 it says Burton Penny translated these letters from the 1790s in 1863.  Blavatsky did not start the Theosophical Society until 1875. 

Jakob Boheme used 'theosophia' in his writings.  In the bibliography of the Burton translation is another example of the term being used before Blavatsky:  Theosophia Practica, by J. G. Gichtel, 7 Vols. 3rd ed., Leyden, 1722.

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Amita said:

Your prejudice against Blavatsky is blinding you to the simple truth.

She was a self serving con-artist and liar. 

[Amita]

For those who also confuse the term Theosophy of HPB & classic theosophy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy_(Boehmian)

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Amita said:

For those who also confuse the term Theosophy of HPB & classic theosophy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy_(Boehmian)

Oh, so that's where the stole the term from...

[Amita]

David Bates' paper on the philosophy of Saint-Martin ends with this:

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Saint-Martin's writings were all efforts to show humanity that its true path lay outside the visible forms of his material existence. The mystic element was not a retreat into intellectual repose and inaction, however. The role of the philosopher, he thought, was to point the way out of this region, to spur man to recognize his superior nature. Through "negligence or bad faith" man has misunderstood the principle of order and peace, and thus dwells in disorder. He then takes this disorder as evidence of the arbitrary and conventional nature of his existence. His disorder is, however, simply a result of our separation from Truth, our refusal to exercise the faculties we have; we remain, then, in the world of "lies and error." Yet the very recognition of disorder, of error, reveals our connection to a higher reality. The drive to knowledge is predicated on both the absence of truth and the awareness of its absence. Here, Saint-Martin offers a variation on the eighteenth-century concept of curiosity: limitation is what drives us toward the truth.

Here is the entire paper:  https://rhetoric.berkeley.edu/files/saintmartin.pdf

Also a thorough book on Saint-Martin's philosophy & life is still in print by A.E. Waite.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Amita