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markdohle

A simple, powerful near death experience

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markdohle
 
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A simple but very powerful Near Death Experience
(my time with a retreatant)


“What could ever harm you? You are God’s child and Christ is your brother. Isn’t that a wellspring of joy? Escape from yourself. Forget all earthly cares. Return unceasingly into the eternal womb that bore you. Give yourself to the Spirit. He will quicken you. He will interpret you to the Father. You can’t understand this; so knowing that you know nothing, give yourself all the same, and the smaller you are the more the Spirit will exalt you. Go over your deficiencies. You would like to fly and you do not even know how to walk. “Then hold out your arms and the Spirit will take hold of you.”

Bossis, Gabrielle. He and I (Kindle Locations 3574-3578).
Pauline Books and Media. Kindle Edition.

I have spoken a few times on how powerful, and yes, humbling, it is for me to sit down and talk with the men, and women, who come here for retreat. When people share, and truly listen to each other, the reality of the uniqueness of the ‘other’ becomes ever more apparent.

This week there was a retreatant here for a four day retreat. The name of the retreat was “Too Deep for Words”. It was given by Jackie R., and our Br. Elias. It was based, more or less, on his book, “The Tears of an Innocent God”.

The man’s name was Thomas, and he has given me permission to write about what he shared with me.

While it is true, that life is very hard, I believe, for everyone, and that none of us knows the future, and that future will be very difficult at different times in life, and sad to say, there is no escape from that reality. No one is spared from the “Outrageous Fortunes” of life. So how are we protected by the love of God? Not an easy question. Also, not one I can answer, or give it justice, even if I tried. Yet, I do feel that we are protected from deep harm to our souls. Some believe that our lives are not just about physical survival, but there is also a spiritual battle that is going on, and is borne out in people’s lives through personal experiences.

When I sat down with Thomas, and he was sharing his life with me, I was impressed by his balance, his deep spirituality, and humility. I felt truly, that he was teaching me. I meet many who are far ahead of me in the spiritual life, and love to converse with them. Towards the end of our meeting, he brought up that at one time, not too long in the past, he was heavily addicted to drugs, to opioids, in fact. He mentioned that it cost him his marriage, though at this time, he does have a good relationship with his children, and a cordial one with his ex-wife.

He shared that he was brought back from dying from an overdose, four times in fact, over a short period of time. Then, he died, during the fifth overdose. His body was found in the bathroom of his home. During this time he had a very simple, straightforward NDE, not much fuss, nor meeting of anyone, no deceased family members coming to greet him. When he died, he felt himself leaving his body, and then he saw this flash of light. He knew then that he died. He continued that he called out to God, and said, please don’t take me now, it is too soon, please take my addiction away from me. Then he woke up, and saw the EMT’s, working on him. He was taken to the hospital. They took his blood to find out what he overdosed with. To everyone’s surprise, as well as his, he came back clean. There was no trace of drugs in his system. After that he told me, he never desired to take drugs again. It transformed his life. Now he knows that the meaning of life is to love and help others. Not to try to escape it.

Was he protected? Well, not from his beginning his addiction, nor the loss of his marriage, but on the level that matters more than anything else, his soul was protected. When he called out, it must have been from the depths of his heart, and he was healed, restored, and regained his family, though still divorced. He has a good apostolate, and also makes good money which he uses to help others.

I do believe that at the time of death, all are given the choice to be called late in life, to a loving, trusting, relationship with God. He was able to accept, and he was also healed because he was ready for it, there were no obstacles to God’s healing love. We have to open our hearts and minds to the grace that is always offered. It is a freely given grace, brought at a grace price.

Like in the parable of the Prodigal Son, the Father of lights, as revealed in Jesus Christ, waits for each of us to return. When that happens, we are picked up and embraced. Any, and all, who call on the Lord will be heard and as Infinite Mercy has shown them, they are loved. Those who don’t, it is a choice that is free, deliberate, and sad to say, eternal.

Only God knows each heart. From this man’s story, no one is outside of God’s mercy. So to pray for all, is often to pray that when they come to their own deaths, that there is a small flame of love there that the Holy Spirit can increase.

We should never lose hope. It takes courage to stay on the path when it is filled with many falls and starting over. Yet humility grows in our falls, and grace lift us up, all we need do is to open up our arms to the Spirit, just like Thomas did.—Br.MD

 

Edited by markdohle
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Jodie.Lynne

Is there a discussion here, or is this just a preaching point?

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spartan max2
15 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Is there a discussion here, or is this just a preaching point?

It's in the spirtuality, religion, and belief section. He is just sharing a story, he does that often.  No need to be rude.

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Jodie.Lynne
4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

It's in the spirtuality, religion, and belief section. He is just sharing a story, he does that often.  No need to be rude.

How is it being rude to ask a question? The last time I checked, these were discussion boards.

If I were being rude, I would have stated that the OP should put this in a blog instead. 

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markdohle
1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Is there a discussion here, or is this just a preaching point?

Don't mean to preach, just sharing an experience that has to do with what this forum is about.

Peace
Mark

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Helen of Annoy
17 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Is there a discussion here, or is this just a preaching point?

Of course we can have a discussion. 

Let me start: often we hear about people who changed for the better after experiencing NDE. And their change was so profound and lasting it cannot be written off (in my opinion) as something accidental or as a temporary result of shock or just a random trip due to lack of oxygen.

Obviously, I personally take that phenomenon as real and significant one. I also don't see it as something that must be necessarily viewed as religious phenomenon, though it quite consistently does indicate that we are welcomed there in the way that is close to our personal choice of religion. Which is only logical. Someone who can speak any language will address you in your own language, won't be trying to confuse you with the one you don't know. Be it verbal or visual.  

 

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jamesjr191
3 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Of course we can have a discussion. 

Let me start: often we hear about people who changed for the better after experiencing NDE. And their change was so profound and lasting it cannot be written off (in my opinion) as something accidental or as a temporary result of shock or just a random trip due to lack of oxygen.

Obviously, I personally take that phenomenon as real and significant one. I also don't see it as something that must be necessarily viewed as religious phenomenon, though it quite consistently does indicate that we are welcomed there in the way that is close to our personal choice of religion. Which is only logical. Someone who can speak any language will address you in your own language, won't be trying to confuse you with the one you don't know. Be it verbal or visual.  

 

I've taken the "NDE" trip myself and in my opinion its just the brains attempt to soothe a dying mind. I saw no gods or demons nor entites, just life going on below me as i looked downward.

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Helen of Annoy
39 minutes ago, jamesjr191 said:

I've taken the "NDE" trip myself and in my opinion its just the brains attempt to soothe a dying mind. I saw no gods or demons nor entites, just life going on below me as i looked downward.

I respect your opinion and I thank you for sharing your experience with us.  

I know few people who didn't remember anything special after resuscitation, so while NDE is not as rare it seems it's not exactly usual either.

But I also know at least two who weren't officially dead, only comatose/severely unconscious but had experience similar to NDE, with similar effect too. 

That's the additional reason for me to think there's more to NDE than tricks of dying brain.  

 

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jamesjr191
4 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I respect your opinion and I thank you for sharing your experience with us.  

I know few people who didn't remember anything special after resuscitation, so while NDE is not as rare it seems it's not exactly usual either.

But I also know at least two who weren't officially dead, only comatose/severely unconscious but had experience similar to NDE, with similar effect too. 

That's the additional reason for me to think there's more to NDE than tricks of dying brain.  

 

Agree to disagree and we move on. Only thing that bugs me is someone insisting they have the 'awesome truth' to a situation. I dont have the answers and will not pretend to, only my personal experience. Note i said 'personal' the same thing as a butthole, everyone has one.:D

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spartan max2
4 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I respect your opinion and I thank you for sharing your experience with us.  

I know few people who didn't remember anything special after resuscitation, so while NDE is not as rare it seems it's not exactly usual either.

But I also know at least two who weren't officially dead, only comatose/severely unconscious but had experience similar to NDE, with similar effect too. 

That's the additional reason for me to think there's more to NDE than tricks of dying brain.  

 

I'm curious why the unconscious peoples NDE's adds credibility, of NDE'S being an actual afterlife expierence, for you? For me it hurts the credibility because people are having these expierence related to death when they are not dead.

 

Edited by spartan max2
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Helen of Annoy

All right, let me do the disclaimer first :D  : what follows is my opinion only, I do not claim it has any more weight than anyone else's.  

It could be an actual experience of seeing who we truly are, of seeing the other plane(s) of existence. Death is the most usual way of leaving material world, but do we really know that? (Why do we dream, where do we go when we dream, for example? Who didn't experience at least one dream that hasn't come true later? Or a dream that changed our mood just enough to make us change our plans, with significant consequences? And so on. I think we touch that more-than-material-reality while we dream too.) 

I'm trying to say that similar to NDE experiences with people who weren't dead could indicate that being detached from the usual mode of mind that we (are programmed to?) have while existing in this material world is what we need to see more, rather than losing unassisted heartbeat.

Near death is just perfect opportunity for a mind to take a look at more complete existence. I think like that because I personally suspect that what we call after-life is also before-life. And we don't cease to exist in that plane while we're down here.

But who knows. I certainly don't :D

The only thing I do know for sure is that NDE is so intriguing.     

  

 

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Helen of Annoy
32 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I'm curious why the unconscious peoples NDE's adds credibility, of NDE'S being an actual afterlife expierence, for you? For me it hurts the credibility because people are having these expierence related to death when they are not dead.

 

As usual, forgot to quote. Sorry, my reply is up there. Forgive me, I'm not senile yet but as you can see, I am working on it :D 

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joc
5 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

The only thing I do know for sure is that NDE is so intriguing.    

Do you think it is possible that...people hallucinate before they die?

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Jodie.Lynne
8 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I'm trying to say that similar to NDE experiences with people who weren't dead could indicate that being detached from the usual mode of mind

So you see no correlation between a dying brain, and one in coma? Both are brains (and bodies) in distress. In both cases, the brain is under extreme duress, and anything observed, is highly suspect.

Definition of 'coma': 

1 : a state of profound unconsciousness caused by disease, injury, or poison

2 : a state of mental or physical sluggishness : torpor

 

For example, my daughter has epilepsy. She has endured countless seizure since she was 8 years old (she is 26 now, and still has seizures).

On numerous occasions, after recovering, she has recounted conversations that were held while she was in seizure. Clear, concise details of a convo between a man and a woman. Except.... the only people present were myself and my spouse, and the conversations my daughter related were ENTIRELY fictitious; a result of her brains scrambled neurological signals.

So please explain why a dying, or comatose brain, experiencing these phenomena are any different.

And, if your argument consists of the fact that the brain is in an altered sense of consciousness, and therefore is open to receiving information via methods not available to a "normal" functioning brain, then please explain why everyone doesn't have the same experience to report.  See the quote below.

14 hours ago, jamesjr191 said:

I've taken the "NDE" trip myself and in my opinion its just the brains attempt to soothe a dying mind. I saw no gods or demons nor entites, just life going on below me as i looked downward.

 

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Helen of Annoy
19 hours ago, joc said:

Do you think it is possible that...people hallucinate before they die?

Of course it's not just possible but also very likely.

But when a 'hallucination' gives information, proven to be correct, and/or significantly and permanently changes a person who experienced it, you have to wonder what's going on.

(Obviously, I'm not talking about changes in the sense of manifesting physical/mental damage, I'm referring to the changes in attitude and spirituality, that lead to more satisfying and fuller life of the one who experienced the phenomenon and those around them.)

 

There are also NDEs that are sort of 'locked' inside one's mind. You can't remember exactly who you met and what they told you, but as your life continues you start finding bits of the experience 'unlocked'. To me personally, it's the proof there was an actual reason why you were sent back. With instructions, no less :D Yes, I know this sounds slightly insane, from strict materialist point of view, but if the objective reality proves your information correct, you'd be actually insane to ignore it. 

Frankly, I'm quite content with the significance of such experiences so the lack of scientific explanation is not something that would disturb me too much.

 

16 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

So you see no correlation between a dying brain, and one in coma? Both are brains (and bodies) in distress. In both cases, the brain is under extreme duress, and anything observed, is highly suspect.

Definition of 'coma': 

1 : a state of profound unconsciousness caused by disease, injury, or poison

2 : a state of mental or physical sluggishness : torpor

 

For example, my daughter has epilepsy. She has endured countless seizure since she was 8 years old (she is 26 now, and still has seizures).

On numerous occasions, after recovering, she has recounted conversations that were held while she was in seizure. Clear, concise details of a convo between a man and a woman. Except.... the only people present were myself and my spouse, and the conversations my daughter related were ENTIRELY fictitious; a result of her brains scrambled neurological signals.

So please explain why a dying, or comatose brain, experiencing these phenomena are any different.

And, if your argument consists of the fact that the brain is in an altered sense of consciousness, and therefore is open to receiving information via methods not available to a "normal" functioning brain, then please explain why everyone doesn't have the same experience to report.  See the quote below.

 

I offered discussion, not to be your punching bag.

You can see above for the examples of posts from people who don't share my opinion but can make a conversation without uncalled for vitriol.

(May I recommend Banned thread in the Fun&Games? We say horrible things to each other there, but it's always strictly humorous so no one is hurt while everyone gets to vent out. Everyone needs to vent out. God, just how I need to vent out sometimes... )

 

It's not my intention to aggravate you so let me repeat and reformulate that I'm expressing my own opinion, am interested in opinions of others, out of plain human curiosity. No contest, no trial, just people talking with each other.

 

Bearing my previous posts in mind, it probably won't be a surprise that in my opinion, epileptic experience is not random or insignificant. Every theatre in our mind – dreams, visions - has a meaning, some instantly, some hardly, only later or maybe never deciphered.

 

I'm not suggesting there should be a frantic search for a meaning of the contents remembered from every episode, or a dream, or any sort of vision, regardless of the way it was induced, but I wouldn't discard it either.

If there's possible meaning showing up, why not explore it?

 

 

 

For example, some people are only alive because they were warned in a dream, of a certain situation. Others died just like they said they will, after a dream or a visit/vision they had. I have absolutely no idea how to explain that using currently most popular idea of bare materialism. It's easy to call such experiences lies, exaggerations, false memories, it's easy to therefore not mention them, but it's not easy to write them off in front of your own self if you were part of them.

It happens. No, not every time. No, not at request, except sometimes...

I don't even really care that much 'how', I care much more – 'why'?

 

Personally, I don't just allow but expect that every form of our encounters with more-than-material-reality comes also from the sources 'outside' us. Not really outside us, since we're integral part of everything that is, but outside our everyday, material-adjusted mode of mind.

In other words, from what I've seen, we are guided.

No, not always into peachy, fluffy, happy ends by the standards we have while living this life. I'm not even trying to open that box of questions in here. I'm just saying it's always a bit awkward for me when I'm reminded that not everyone was in the situations that would made them notice that guidance. 

 

Anyway, everyone, thanks for bearing with me. 

May your dreams are pleasant and possible NDE doesn't come in many years. There's always time for the eternity, right?  

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joc
1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Of course it's not just possible but also very likely.

But when a 'hallucination' gives information, proven to be correct, and/or significantly and permanently changes a person who experienced it, you have to wonder what's going on.

(Obviously, I'm not talking about changes in the sense of manifesting physical/mental damage, I'm referring to the changes in attitude and spirituality, that lead to more satisfying and fuller life of the one who experienced the phenomenon and those around them.)

 

There are also NDEs that are sort of 'locked' inside one's mind. You can't remember exactly who you met and what they told you, but as your life continues you start finding bits of the experience 'unlocked'. To me personally, it's the proof there was an actual reason why you were sent back. With instructions, no less :D Yes, I know this sounds slightly insane, from strict materialist point of view, but if the objective reality proves your information correct, you'd be actually insane to ignore it. 

Frankly, I'm quite content with the significance of such experiences so the lack of scientific explanation is not something that would disturb me too much.

 

I offered discussion, not to be your punching bag.

You can see above for the examples of posts from people who don't share my opinion but can make a conversation without uncalled for vitriol.

(May I recommend Banned thread in the Fun&Games? We say horrible things to each other there, but it's always strictly humorous so no one is hurt while everyone gets to vent out. Everyone needs to vent out. God, just how I need to vent out sometimes... )

 

It's not my intention to aggravate you so let me repeat and reformulate that I'm expressing my own opinion, am interested in opinions of others, out of plain human curiosity. No contest, no trial, just people talking with each other.

 

Bearing my previous posts in mind, it probably won't be a surprise that in my opinion, epileptic experience is not random or insignificant. Every theatre in our mind – dreams, visions - has a meaning, some instantly, some hardly, only later or maybe never deciphered.

 

I'm not suggesting there should be a frantic search for a meaning of the contents remembered from every episode, or a dream, or any sort of vision, regardless of the way it was induced, but I wouldn't discard it either.

If there's possible meaning showing up, why not explore it?

 

 

 

For example, some people are only alive because they were warned in a dream, of a certain situation. Others died just like they said they will, after a dream or a visit/vision they had. I have absolutely no idea how to explain that using currently most popular idea of bare materialism. It's easy to call such experiences lies, exaggerations, false memories, it's easy to therefore not mention them, but it's not easy to write them off in front of your own self if you were part of them.

It happens. No, not every time. No, not at request, except sometimes...

I don't even really care that much 'how', I care much more – 'why'?

 

Personally, I don't just allow but expect that every form of our encounters with more-than-material-reality comes also from the sources 'outside' us. Not really outside us, since we're integral part of everything that is, but outside our everyday, material-adjusted mode of mind.

In other words, from what I've seen, we are guided.

No, not always into peachy, fluffy, happy ends by the standards we have while living this life. I'm not even trying to open that box of questions in here. I'm just saying it's always a bit awkward for me when I'm reminded that not everyone was in the situations that would made them notice that guidance. 

 

Anyway, everyone, thanks for bearing with me. 

May your dreams are pleasant and possible NDE doesn't come in many years. There's always time for the eternity, right?  

I believe that there are actual real science reasons for everything that happens.

But personal experience is a powerful thing as well 

What I know is that I am very fond of Croatia and I am very fond of you so, if you are happy... I am quite thrilled with that, even if you believe in purple platapuses.

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Jodie.Lynne
2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I offered discussion, not to be your punching bag.

Excuse me, but how have I offended you? By asking questions?

 

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

You can see above for the examples of posts from people who don't share my opinion but can make a conversation without uncalled for vitriol.

Vitriol? Please point out where I said, or implied anything that could be considered antagonistic.

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Helen of Annoy
18 hours ago, joc said:

I believe that there are actual real science reasons for everything that happens.

But personal experience is a powerful thing as well 

What I know is that I am very fond of Croatia and I am very fond of you so, if you are happy... I am quite thrilled with that, even if you believe in purple platapuses.

There definitely are reasons for everything, and science does go forward each day.

Maybe it will be scientifically proven at some point in future that our consciousness (not to mention conscience) is more than biochemistry. Why not? We're still closer to stone age than the worlds we imagine in science fiction. There's still so much for us to discover and everything to explain. 

 

Thank you for accepting me complete with the purple platapuses :D 

Not that we really have those, we're more a werewolf type of country :D  

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joc
37 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

There definitely are reasons for everything, and science does go forward each day.

Maybe it will be scientifically proven at some point in future that our consciousness (not to mention conscience) is more than biochemistry. Why not? We're still closer to stone age than the worlds we imagine in science fiction. There's still so much for us to discover and everything to explain. 

 

Thank you for accepting me complete with the purple platapuses :D 

Not that we really have those, we're more a werewolf type of country :D  

I like werewolves!

Edited by joc
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CeresExpo2000

When you die, go into the light.

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Imaginarynumber1

It astounds me that people can believe in things like this but something as simple, tested, and proven as vaccination goes over their head.

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Helen of Annoy
18 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

It astounds me that people can believe in things like this but something as simple, tested, and proven as vaccination goes over their head.

May I present myself as a proof that knowing stuff like NDE happens and believing (not knowing, mind you) it actually is significant, does not mean I'm too stupid to understand the benefits and importance of vaccination. 

(In my opinion, the cult of anti-vaccines arose from the simple fact that people were told scary stories about vaccination and these are far more intense and interesting than the plain truth. There's also this additional problem that while vaccines are absolutely desirable against serious diseases, where the risk carried by the vaccine is multiple times lower than the risk the disease carries, there were serious failures with quality of the vaccines, with deadly serious consequences, and some were outright peddled for profit, not with the health of the population in mind. Yup, there I go off topic. Sorry.)

Back on topic, more-less, suspecting there's more than material world alone does not require one to reject science. Personally, I don't reject it. After all, I'm typing this on a keyboard, not on a Bible. (I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm trying to say everything for its purpose.)  

Edited by Helen of Annoy

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Imaginarynumber1
20 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

May I present myself as a proof that knowing stuff like NDE happens and believing (not knowing, mind you) it actually is significant, does not mean I'm too stupid to understand the benefits and importance of vaccination. 

(In my opinion, the cult of anti-vaccines arose from the simple fact that people were told scary stories about vaccination and these are far more intense and interesting than the plain truth. There's also this additional problem that while vaccines are absolutely desirable against serious diseases, where the risk carried by the vaccine is multiple times lower than the risk the disease carries, there were serious failures with quality of the vaccines, with deadly serious consequences, and some were outright peddled for profit, not with the health of the population in mind. Yup, there I go off topic. Sorry.)

Back on topic, more-less, suspecting there's more than material world alone does not require one to reject science. Personally, I don't reject it. After all, I'm typing this on a keyboard, not on a Bible. (I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm trying to say everything for its purpose.)  

Nope. It's all horse****. Neurological reaction is all. 

Not debating established science of vaccines. Anti-vaxxers deserve terrible diseases. 

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Helen of Annoy
29 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Nope. It's all horse****. Neurological reaction is all. 

Not debating established science of vaccines. Anti-vaxxers deserve terrible diseases. 

Why wouldn't spiritual (or extrasensory) event go through neurological reaction?

 

(No one deserves terrible diseases. Certainly not stupid people, just because they're stupid. It's not their fault. It's the job for the clever ones to lure stupids to the common sense. You can't reason with them. You must woo them.

So what anti-vaxxers deserve are more interesting stories from the sane side. They've been bombarded with scary autism stories and whatnot. There should be pro-vaxxing campaigns that would explain in ways appealing to idiots why it's so cool to vaccinate. Collect them all. Like damn Pokemons or something.)      

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Imaginarynumber1
2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

 

(No one deserves terrible diseases.

They most certainly do. And with any luck, they contract terrible diseases that prevent them from breeding. 

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