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markdohle

A simple, powerful near death experience

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Helen of Annoy
1 minute ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

They most certainly do. And with any luck, they contract terrible diseases that prevent them from breeding. 

Tempting, tempting :D but on the other hand, it's just too cruel. And is intelligence alone what makes one worthy to live? I think not. There're so many not too bright people who live responsible and loving lives.

Any kind-hearted moron is certainly a better person than an intelligent psychopath. For example. 

 

But, eugenics aside, it's off-topic, there's nothing actually in current scientific collection of information about NDE that would objectively exclude the possibility of significance in such events. 

Again, much like dreams, the process in a dreaming brain is known, but why do we dream that what we do, how come it's not even rare that people get information or insight in their dreams?    

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Imaginarynumber1
10 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

Any kind-hearted moron is certainly a better person than an intelligent psychopath. For example. 

I feel attacked

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Imaginarynumber1
11 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

But, eugenics aside, it's off-topic, there's nothing actually in current scientific collection of information about NDE that would objectively exclude the possibility of significance in such events. 

Again, much like dreams, the process in a dreaming brain is known, but why do we dream that what we do, how come it's not even rare that people get information or insight in their dreams?    

I don't really care about NDE's. 

They have no relevance to me and i see them as nothing more than a chemical process in the brain. 

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Liquid Gardens
On 10/22/2018 at 3:13 PM, Helen of Annoy said:

For example, some people are only alive because they were warned in a dream, of a certain situation. Others died just like they said they will, after a dream or a visit/vision they had. I have absolutely no idea how to explain that using currently most popular idea of bare materialism. It's easy to call such experiences lies, exaggerations, false memories, it's easy to therefore not mention them, but it's not easy to write them off in front of your own self if you were part of them.

It happens. No, not every time. No, not at request, except sometimes...

I don't even really care that much 'how', I care much more – 'why'?

But do you also ask, 'why not'?  When you mention 'why' and 'I have absolutely no idea how to explain that', you seem to be implicitly suggesting that the odds against something like this ever occurring make it virtually impossible, but I'm not sure what that would be based on though.  It doesn't require calling such experiences lies or exaggerations, to me it looks entirely within the bounds of possibility, maybe even frequent possibility: 7+ billion people times thousands of dreams each times death being a very common subject to think about doesn't sound like anything I'd be confident is very rare.  It would be a little weird but I don't think I'd be that surprised if someone dreams of having a heart attack or a car accident and then that occurs to them a short time after, I think I'd be more surprised if that never occurred actually.

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eight bits
2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

how come it's not even rare that people get information or insight in their dreams?    

Because dreams are thoughts, and sometimes we figure something out by thinking about it. Happens when we're awake, too.

There's also a lot of wishful thinking. Wishful thinking happens whether the thinker is awake, or dreaming, or recalling a very injured brain episode.

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Helen of Annoy
19 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I don't really care about NDE's. 

They have no relevance to me and i see them as nothing more than a chemical process in the brain. 

Fair enough. I don't think there's some ground-breaking reason you should change you mind. 

In my opinion, it's mostly our own experiences (and experiences of those very close to us) that make us more or less acceptable to certain ideas that are far from official scientific theories. I'm trying to say that it's certainly different to read about some crazy experience of who knows what lunatic or simpleton, or to have an interesting event happening to you personally. 

I'm aware that I will be more prone to see a meaning in that what you consider a coincidence, but wouldn't you say that you will be more prone to ignore otherwise intriguing improbability? 

 

And thanks @eight bits @Liquid Gardens for your replies, will you accept the above as my reply to you all for today? So I don't repeat myself too much, because I don't really have a lot to say :D 

 

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Liquid Gardens
5 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I'm aware that I will be more prone to see a meaning in that what you consider a coincidence, but wouldn't you say that you will be more prone to ignore otherwise intriguing improbability?

Perhaps, although I didn't intend my argument at least to take anything away from any meaning it may have to someone, I think a lot of this stuff is intriguing and can be useful and 'spiritual' for people.  I don't think NDEs for example are any kind of indication of an afterlife, but they are still intriguing, it is interesting that there is some commonality amongst some people's experience. I definitely can see why such an experience can change people's outlook on life but I think that can occur even if the NDE experiencer doesn't necessarily think they literally were in contact with the afterlife during the NDE.

About the closest I come is with frisson (goosebumps and pleasant, awe-inspiring feelings some people have in response to some music) which I've experienced, and actually try to experience, many times.  I find it interesting that this phenomenon even exists, I know there are some theories but it doesn't make sense to me why from an evolutionary standpoint something like this would develop, I don't see any obvious survival advantage to it.  Now I could entertain that there is something mystical going on, I do get a 'divine-like' feeling when this occurs and it does have some 'meaning' to me, it brings up all kinds of interesting things to think about for me like the nature of creativity and what is music, but most of what frisson inspires in me is just as interesting without layering on any ideas or possibilities about something supernatural occurring.

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