Is Our Universe Alone?

[Coil]

 

You are strange people, you don’t even have any rational thoughts that this could be someone’s real spiritual experience.
  Immediately our narcotics need to be dragged in here. In this there is a flaw in a person that a bad thought comes first and not a reasonable one.

A third spirit stood behind, their hidden cause,
A mass of superconscience closed in light,
Creator of things in his all-knowing sleep.
All from his stillness came as grows a tree;
He is our seed and core, our head and base.
All light is but a flash from his closed eyes:
An all-wise Truth is mystic in his heart,
The omniscient Ray is shut behind his lids:
He is the Wisdom that comes not by thought,
His wordless silence brings the immortal word.
He sleeps in the atom and the burning star,
He sleeps in man and god and beast and stone:
Because he is there the Inconscient does its work,
Because he is there the world forgets to die.
He is the centre of the circle of God,
He the circumference of Nature's run.
His slumber is an Almightiness in things,
Awake, he is the Eternal and Supreme.
Above was the brooding bliss of the Infinite,
Its omniscient and omnipotent repose,
Its immobile silence absolute and alone.
All powers were woven in countless concords here.
The bliss that made the world in his body lived,
Love and delight were the head of the sweet form.

 

[Mr Guitar]

If there are multiple universes, what constitutes each one's boundary - 'branes, picket fences, moats, tall mountains? Where does one set of physical laws stop and another one start? There must be some sort of delineation because, I doubt, an overlap would be possible.

[Coil]

5 hours ago, Mr Guitar said:

If there are multiple universes, what constitutes each one's boundary - 'branes, picket fences, moats, tall mountains? Where does one set of physical laws stop and another one start? There must be some sort of delineation because, I doubt, an overlap would be possible.

Of course, they are distant from each other by certain spaces with their materialities but you can see other universes only if you go beyond the limits of our universe, as only all other universes are seen from the level of God and this can be seen even in the picture. When they say that a black hole is a passage into another universe, it is not so because all the energies of our universe rotate in our universe, although the energy of God supporting our universe constantly enters here from spiritual levels. Of course, it is possible to dream in transition to another universe but with our body and consciousness we cannot even go from one world to another because our body is biological and not plastic energetic body to change depending on the conditions of the world. But even if in the future man will be able to do this, then in our universe there is a lot of business, so a person must first become the master of our universe and when his goals in this universe are completed, he will be ready to create and transfer to a new universe like great gods.

 

[Mr Guitar]

Huh?

[Mr Guitar]

7 hours ago, Coil said:

Of course, they are distant from each other by certain spaces with their materialities but you can see other universes only if you go beyond the limits of our universe, as only all other universes are seen from the level of God and this can be seen even in the picture. When they say that a black hole is a passage into another universe, it is not so because all the energies of our universe rotate in our universe, although the energy of God supporting our universe constantly enters here from spiritual levels. Of course, it is possible to dream in transition to another universe but with our body and consciousness we cannot even go from one world to another because our body is biological and not plastic energetic body to change depending on the conditions of the world. But even if in the future man will be able to do this, then in our universe there is a lot of business, so a person must first become the master of our universe and when his goals in this universe are completed, he will be ready to create and transfer to a new universe like great gods.

 

I wondered how long it would take the bible thumpers to get involved in this. I'd hoped to get some interesting answers to my question based on scientific conjecture instead of spiritualist BS that doesn't even come close to being rational.

[StarMountainKid]

It seems to me a universe is a self-contained entity or phenomenon, and can have no relationship with another universe. However, I'm thinking that gravity perhaps is communicated among universes, thus explaining why gravity is the weakest force.

[zep73]

16 hours ago, Mr Guitar said:

If there are multiple universes, what constitutes each one's boundary - 'branes, picket fences, moats, tall mountains? Where does one set of physical laws stop and another one start? There must be some sort of delineation because, I doubt, an overlap would be possible.

TGR gives the boundaries, because in TGR space is a consistent fabric, not a void with matter. Within a TGR universe everything is connected kinda like an ocean.

(TGR: the Theory of General Relativity)

Edited November 1, 2018 by sci-nerd

[Coil]

5 hours ago, Mr Guitar said:

I wondered how long it would take the bible thumpers to get involved in this. I'd hoped to get some interesting answers to my question based on scientific conjecture instead of spiritualist BS that doesn't even come close to being rational.

Science here will not help, for it is an explosion of some superdense mass and the emergence of life from matter in a miraculous way but it is impossible to explain how it all happens without God because it is the essence of the living.
When science in the future turns to religion, but for now science thinks that without God it can understand the structure of the universe and the source of everything but so far I don’t see any achievements, some theories, and religion has long known the source of everything and who controls the universe.

[Mr Guitar]

On 11/1/2018 at 4:38 PM, Coil said:

Science here will not help, for it is an explosion of some superdense mass and the emergence of life from matter in a miraculous way but it is impossible to explain how it all happens without God because it is the essence of the living.
When science in the future turns to religion, but for now science thinks that without God it can understand the structure of the universe and the source of everything but so far I don’t see any achievements, some theories, and religion has long known the source of everything and who controls the universe.

Problem with that is, 1.) there is absolutely NO proof that there is a god and. 2) religion is based on fear and wishful thinking - neither are worth a plugged nickel (or your other favorite currency)  in factually explaining anything. Hopefully, science will not turn to religion any time in the future because religion is emotion which has nothing to do with the scientific method. I think you will find religion dropping by the wayside as we learn more about our surroundings and it will become about as important as the the human appendix.

[pallidin]

On 10/21/2018 at 2:12 PM, sci-nerd said:

I had hoped for some (more) feedback on this, from our excellent in house panel of brainiacs!?

Feedback on what?

Other life in our Universe?

Other intelligent life in our Universe?

No other life at all in our Universe?

Pick your poison...

[zep73]

10 hours ago, pallidin said:

Feedback on what?

Many universes or just this one.

Quote

Other life in our Universe?

Other intelligent life in our Universe?

No other life at all in our Universe?

No. No. No.

Quote

Pick your poison...

Many universes or just this one...?

[pallidin]

Ah, the "Multiverse Theory"

Sure, for myself I can roll with that.

It does have its inherent complexities... we have never seen another Universe, much less an infinite number of them.

It remains as a mathematical construct, but has some issues worth considering.

[Coil]

On 02.11.2018 at 7:36 PM, Mr Guitar said:

Problem with that is, 1.) there is absolutely NO proof that there is a god and. 2) religion is based on fear and wishful thinking - neither are worth a plugged nickel (or your other favorite currency)  in factually explaining anything. Hopefully, science will not turn to religion any time in the future because religion is emotion which has nothing to do with the scientific method. I think you will find religion dropping by the wayside as we learn more about our surroundings and it will become about as important as the the human appendix.

1. God can be known only through his consciousness and not through devices, so if spiritual people speak of God, then he exists therefore an appeal that God is not- wrong, rather, scientists simply do not seek it in the necessary way because God is known by the spiritual (divine consciousness), that is, similar is known by similar. I don’t think that all scientists unequivocally say that there is no God.

2.The theory that religion is based on fear is also wrong, yes, it happens that in moments of mortal danger, people seeing no help turn to God instinctively, which proves that the way to overcome death is God as an eternal spirit(only the immortal can afford to become mortal in evolution). Many people turn to God not when they are afraid but when want to know more than science can give (knowledge of the soul and spirit, reincarnation, the essence of being, the thin bodies of man and the levels of the universe and how the extraterrestrial evolution of beings occurred) because a person cannot be satisfied only with material and scientific knowledge, therefore,  sooner or later he grows out of this knowledge and seeks to find out what is above him, the source of everything or the real I am of man.

Believe me, technology and science exist because man cannot comprehend being, nature, cosmos with his consciousness but when his mind can penetrate all the secrets of the universe, grasp all the laws and nature structure and manage everything, we will not need these technical crutches that we use every day. The words “God” or  “atom” are all just a mediated representation for our mind in the form of thought but not a real vision, therefore such a “cognition” will always lack the fullness of direct vision and experience of the object.

[Mr Guitar]

29 minutes ago, Coil said:

1. God can be known only through his consciousness and not through devices, so if spiritual people speak of God, then he exists therefore an appeal that God is not- wrong, rather, scientists simply do not seek it in the necessary way because God is known by the spiritual (divine consciousness), that is, similar is known by similar. I don’t think that all scientists unequivocally say that there is no God.

2.The theory that religion is based on fear is also wrong, yes, it happens that in moments of mortal danger, people seeing no help turn to God instinctively, which proves that the way to overcome death is God as an eternal spirit(only the immortal can afford to become mortal in evolution). Many people turn to God not when they are afraid but when want to know more than science can give (knowledge of the soul and spirit, reincarnation, the essence of being, the thin bodies of man and the levels of the universe and how the extraterrestrial evolution of beings occurred) because a person cannot be satisfied only with material and scientific knowledge, therefore,  sooner or later he grows out of this knowledge and seeks to find out what is above him, the source of everything or the real I am of man.

Believe me, technology and science exist because man cannot comprehend being, nature, cosmos with his consciousness but when his mind can penetrate all the secrets of the universe, grasp all the laws and nature structure and manage everything, we will not need these technical crutches that we use every day. The words “God” or  “atom” are all just a mediated representation for our mind in the form of thought but not a real vision, therefore such a “cognition” will always lack the fullness of direct vision and experience of the object.

You said absolutely NOTHING that made any sense to me - my mind doesn't work that way. I believe man can grasp the cosmos and nature in all it's entirety and that's being proven every day with new discoveries. Religion is just a means of 'giving up' and saying I'm not smart enough to grasp this concept so I'll attribute it to some fictitious 'man in the sky' (god, if you will). That's where religion came from - the fear of things that were not understood at the time but that changes as new facts are discovered. Yes, there are things that I have a problem wrapping my mind around like string theory and quantum mechanics but, just because I don't fully grasp them, I don't  give up and say "God did it". I know that there is a rational explanation that can be discovered for everything. The idea of a supreme being, to me, is just an example of emotional weakness.

[Coil]

1 hour ago, Mr Guitar said:

 I believe man can grasp the cosmos and nature in all it's entirety and that's being proven every day with new discoveries. Religion is just a means of 'giving up' and saying I'm not smart enough to grasp this concept so I'll attribute it to some fictitious 'man in the sky' (god, if you will). That's where religion came from - the fear of things that were not understood.

 

I understand, according to you, religion is the lot of the weak and fearful, but in reality religion is the lot of the strong because the device is easier to watch and invent, and to know the source of everything is much more difficult and for religious people the work is much harder because you need to transcend human consciousness , jump over the human level of the mind and not develop the mind in the hope that it will reveal all the laws bit by bit. Therefore, the scientific path is a path to the horizontal plane and evolution (from a wired push-button telephone to a wireless touchscreen), but at the same time, the human mind does not transfer knowledge to the superhuman level, it remains at the human level, and the mind of a religious person rises to the spiritual level, which means jumping over the level of a person and not to remain at the level of a thinking person. Do you understand the difference? You can teach a dog commands and tricks as much as you want, but it doesn’t become a man from this training, so how many do not teach a person to science, he will not become super-rational and will not know the universe in its true form, but thanks to religion he can surpass the level of man so that religion is a practical method God-man and the knowledge of the universe will happen much faster and more correctly as it connects itself with the Source of the original Knowledge of all the sciences.
Believe me, science is a temporary stage of a person while a person is weak and the inner consciousness of a person has much more opportunities for vertical cognition because it goes immediately to the source of everything and does not creep below matter collecting mediated fragments of truth. Even if science gathers all physical knowledge about matter and energy, it will still remain in ignorance of how everything evolves because it does not know the master plan drawn up by the consciousness of God and the gods and without knowing how and where everything moves.

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Coil

[Mr Guitar]

2 hours ago, Coil said:

 

I understand, according to you, religion is the lot of the weak and fearful, but in reality religion is the lot of the strong because the device is easier to watch and invent, and to know the source of everything is much more difficult and for religious people the work is much harder because you need to transcend human consciousness , jump over the human level of the mind and not develop the mind in the hope that it will reveal all the laws bit by bit. Therefore, the scientific path is a path to the horizontal plane and evolution (from a wired push-button telephone to a wireless touchscreen), but at the same time, the human mind does not transfer knowledge to the superhuman level, it remains at the human level, and the mind of a religious person rises to the spiritual level, which means jumping over the level of a person and not to remain at the level of a thinking person. Do you understand the difference? You can teach a dog commands and tricks as much as you want, but it doesn’t become a man from this training, so how many do not teach a person to science, he will not become super-rational and will not know the universe in its true form, but thanks to religion he can surpass the level of man so that religion is a practical method God-man and the knowledge of the universe will happen much faster and more correctly as it connects itself with the Source of the original Knowledge of all the sciences.
Believe me, science is a temporary stage of a person while a person is weak and the inner consciousness of a person has much more opportunities for vertical cognition because it goes immediately to the source of everything and does not creep below matter collecting mediated fragments of truth. Even if science gathers all physical knowledge about matter and energy, it will still remain in ignorance of how everything evolves because it does not know the master plan drawn up by the consciousness of God and the gods and without knowing how and where everything moves.

 

All this is just 'claptrap' to me. I don't see any evidence of this superhuman condition that you speak of and I don't see proof of this 'Source' that you speak of. Until it's proven different, I can't accept the fact that the universe was created by any other than natural means. Mankind is mankind and shall never be anything else. It sounds like you've been watching some old Star Trek episodes or smoking something. As I made very clear before, religion was a means for the ignorant to explain things they didn't understand - lightning god, sun god, fertility god, etc. It's still used to give hope to those who are afraid of death but it's a waste of time and effort because, as far as we know, you go in the ground and rot - just accept it - I have and I'm happier knowing it than worrying about it. The more we learn about the universe, the more these things are unneeded and fall away, hopefully sooner than later. You may be 'touchy feely' and introspective and want to know your 'inner self' but I don't care about anything that I cannot detect with my senses - in other words - 'reality'. It sounds like you may have taken leave of that.

[zep73]

@Coil please respect the premises of this thread

Quote

Finally there is the 'unspeakable' option of a single, unique, perfectly tuned universe, that is made by "someone", but let's not get into that in this thread.

Thanks 

Edited November 18, 2018 by sci-nerd

[Coil]

Well, look, on the earth there are many creatures, animals and plants, and in space there are many planets and galaxies, that is, a lot of physical-conscious objects, why not be other universes? God is one but he expresses himself in a multitude of beings and no entropy is constrained by him so he can create as many universes as he pleases. There is no first universe and no last, but there is an eternal process of creation of universes. This point of view is so simple that it does not require some kind of complicated evidence. Look at the small and you will see an example for the great because the small is created in the image of the great. It would be strange for God having an infinite amount of energy and space to create only one universe that will be like a small speck in an immense space. And we know perfectly well that on earth where there is at least some unpopulated piece of land there surely something will sprout.

[psyche101]

On 10/27/2018 at 5:43 AM, sci-nerd said:

You are an artificial intelligence inside a computer, thinking you are real. Prove me wrong 

Although it comes with a ceveat, this is worth considering. 

Physicists find we’re not living in a computer simulation

 

On 10/27/2018 at 3:31 AM, sci-nerd said:

The are actually three kinds of hypothetical Multiverse's:

1) The most common, simply named "the multiverse", consists of an unknown amount of universes filling an endless void. Ours is one of them. It is hypothesized that each universe has it's own unique natural laws. Some think that in theory you could travel between them, simply by leaving one, and entering the next. Others think you cannot leave your own space/time (the content from one universe cannot mix with another).

2) The "many worlds" quantum multiverse. It is based on the quantum wave function. This type of multiverse is often used in science fiction. Here the universes are not neighbors, but exist in the same space/time, only separated by frequencies. The difference between them are tiny. Everything that potentially could have and will ever happen, happens in this multiverse.

3) One of them does not necessarily exclude the other. There could (hypothetically) be many quantum multiverses, but that idea is so far out, that nobody really entertains it.

None of them can be proven.

Which one of them do you find most likely?

I find the simplicity elegant enough to make choice 1 most likely. That's just how nature works, the simplest option. Option 2, and therefore 3 I just can't see as likely. I can't imagine how big infinity is, but it doesn't seem a simpler solution to overlay universes where infinity is available. And what we do know of quantum realms seems to be rather chaotic. Such a fine overlay would appear to require strong stability and our ideas of QM just seem to go against that.

We see collisions with large scale objects like galaxies, it doesn't seem unlikely that a Multiverse scenario might emulate that in some fashion. 

Could you leave one spacetime and enter another? I guess that would come down to long odds too to my mind. Just like some planets will develop similar atmospheres, it doesn't seem unlikely that some universes might be traversable, some not. 

Just my thoughts of course, entirely speculation, and admittedly unsupported but it seems logical to me. The KISS principle more than anything. 

[zep73]

On 19/11/2018 at 12:31 PM, psyche101 said:

Although it comes with a ceveat, this is worth considering. 

Physicists find we’re not living in a computer simulation

While most people read that article as an argument against the simulation model, I actually find valuable information about the (hypothesized) universe beyond ours in it.
It tells us something that I've suspected for a long time: They do not have QM. QM is a product of being simulated.

That obviously raises the question: What technology are they using, if not quantum computers?
Well, their natural laws are obviously different from ours, and we have no way of getting to know them, so it's pointless to ask.

I just told Coil to refrain from creator-talk, so let's not continue this here. You can reply to this in the "Nature of Reality" thread, if you like.

On 19/11/2018 at 12:31 PM, psyche101 said:

I find the simplicity elegant enough to make choice 1 most likely.

I concur!

[Mr Guitar]

On 11/19/2018 at 5:51 AM, Coil said:

Well, look, on the earth there are many creatures, animals and plants, and in space there are many planets and galaxies, that is, a lot of physical-conscious objects, why not be other universes? God is one but he expresses himself in a multitude of beings and no entropy is constrained by him so he can create as many universes as he pleases. There is no first universe and no last, but there is an eternal process of creation of universes. This point of view is so simple that it does not require some kind of complicated evidence. Look at the small and you will see an example for the great because the small is created in the image of the great. It would be strange for God having an infinite amount of energy and space to create only one universe that will be like a small speck in an immense space. And we know perfectly well that on earth where there is at least some unpopulated piece of land there surely something will sprout.

You make it sound as if 'God' is real which is a problem for many of us because there is NO proof that such an entity exists outside the minds of those who believe in the concept, therefore, any argument using this 'being' (or whatever) as evidence of anything  is entirely lost on those of us who give it no credence in the first place - it proves nothing. Enjoy your 'god' and wishful thinking and lollipops, rainbows, and unicorns if it makes you feel better, but I think you would be better served joining the real world and admit that the human race is capable of a lot more than you give it credit for.

[Truthseeker007]

We are not alone in the universe and even the universe is living.

[siddhikoli]

Our Universe Alive

Our Universe not  Alone

God created Earth and Heaven 

 

[zep73]

48 minutes ago, narayan said:

God created Earth and Heaven 

On 18/11/2018 at 10:18 PM, sci-nerd said:

Finally there is the 'unspeakable' option of a single, unique, perfectly tuned universe, that is made by "someone", but let's not get into that in this thread.

[siddhikoli]

18 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

ok sorry