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docyabut2

Caravan migrants stopped at Mexico border

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TomasaurusREKT

So it's been confirmed that hundreds of troops are heading to the border. Where's the guy who assumed a bunch of crap while being condescending and told me this isn't the job of our military?? Lololol

Edited by TomasaurusREKT

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Uncle Sam

 

 

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Gromdor
5 hours ago, TomasaurusREKT said:

So it's been confirmed that hundreds of troops are heading to the border. Where's the guy who assumed a bunch of crap while being condescending and told me this isn't the job of our military?? Lololol

They are just going there for support.  They can't constitutionally do anything more than hand them water bottles or stand on a tower and look at them.

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F3SS
13 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

They are just going there for support.  They can't constitutionally do anything more than hand them water bottles or stand on a tower and look at them.

So in the event of a foreign invasion our military can't do anything? Only states have the power to act with the NG and the CiC doesn't? I feel like thered have been some serious attempts of hostile land invasions if that were the case.

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Gromdor
4 minutes ago, F3SS said:

So in the event of a foreign invasion our military can't do anything? Only states have the power to act with the NG and the CiC doesn't? I feel like thered have been some serious attempts of hostile land invasions if that were the case.

Foreign military invasion, they can do.  Law enforcement is a constitutional no no.  It's why we have Border Patrol, DEA, ICE, FBI, etc.   But like I said earlier, if Mexico lets them into Mexico they can be deployed to stop the caravan.  Don't blame us military guys for following the Constitution.  They make us take a dumb class on it when we joined and swear an oath to protect it.

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Gromdor

I mean it's pretty obvious with things like the second amendment that our Founding Fathers were paranoid of tyranny and took multiple steps to limit the use of the military.  They set some pretty harsh ground rules to make sure a president didn't misuse them.  But we have been bending the rules until they no longer apply.  Congress having to do a declaration of war for example.  Now we have a president that wants to use them in a law enforcement manner.  It's not like he can't hire more border patrol, give them body armor, tanks, and M-16s.  It would even be more constitutional.  This seems to be more of a executive power grab/stretch more than anything else. 

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DarkHunter

Since I have some free time here is the insurrection act.

§ 252.

Use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority

Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/252.1

The question is does the caravan of illegal immigrants fall under this law.  Due to the size of the caravan it seems safe to say that the caravan itself does make it impracticable to enforce the laws by ordinary course.  Since they are illegally trying to enter the United States and are breaking federal law they seem to meet the definition at the start of the law.

Since they are breaking federal law and the size makes it impractical to enforce the laws normally it seems pretty safe to say the president can legally use the military to enforce the federal law being broken.

Examples of this law being used in the past include Eisenhower federalizing the Arkansas national guard and sending in the 101st airborne to enforce and guard the integration of little rock high school and Bush sending in the 1st marine division and 7th infantry division to curtail the 1992 Los Angeles riot.  

Ultimately there is legal precedent for Trump to use the military to secure the border and nothing constitutionally or legally preventing him.

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Hawken

All the liberals that live in gated communities can take them in...:whistle:

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RoofGardener

Well, according to one newspaper report, the Mexican government has now stated that there are 14,000 "migrants" on the move towards the border with the USA, in three separate groups. 

Even if the USA does manage to stop them at the border, this is going to cause economic chaos. Around 500,000 people, and 4000 commercial trucks,  commute across that border (entirely legally) every day to get to work. If the migrants block the border crossings, this means that 500,000 people aren't going to be able to get into work, and companies won't have any staff ! Thousands of tons of produce will be blocked. 

 

On 24/10/2018 at 8:29 PM, Servator said:

One way to solve all this is to Coordinate with the Mexican a GOV and allow the country of Mexican become a STATE of the US. THEN Line up the military and scour the whole country and DELETE all those who contribute to the Drug trade for starters. PROBLEM SOLVED.

Yeeeeees... that worked SO well in Afghanistan, didn't it ? :D 

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skliss
6 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Foreign military invasion, they can do.  Law enforcement is a constitutional no no.  It's why we have Border Patrol, DEA, ICE, FBI, etc.   But like I said earlier, if Mexico lets them into Mexico they can be deployed to stop the caravan.  Don't blame us military guys for following the Constitution.  They make us take a dumb class on it when we joined and swear an oath to protect it.

Out of anyone I would trust the military to keep their heads and not start something out of panic, accident or anxiety. BTW I don't think learning about the Constitution of this country is "dumb" but that's just me.

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Gromdor
2 hours ago, skliss said:

Out of anyone I would trust the military to keep their heads and not start something out of panic, accident or anxiety. BTW I don't think learning about the Constitution of this country is "dumb" but that's just me.

The military is literally teens with guns.  Also the class was dumb, not the Constitution.  However, it does appear that most Americans (and the president) think that it is because they never even bother to learn the basics of it.  Heck, we have posters here that regularly advocate violating aspects of it.

This caravan thread demonstrates two aspects of the Constitution that people are ignoring.  What it refers to concerning immigration (due process, right to a trial, anchor babies) and what it refers to regarding the military (how and when it can be used).

I mean, why even have a border patrol if we could use the military?  The military gets paid dirt compared to them.  It would be more cost effective.  It only thing stopping it is that "stupid", err "cherished" Constitution that you really seem to want to ignore.  (Yeah, I did that on purpose.  If you truly support and believe in the Constitution, you wouldn't be trying to do work arounds)

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Myles
12 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

The military is literally teens with guns.

Are you sure?   I think the average enlistment age in the Army is 20 years old.   

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aztek
Just now, Gromdor said:

They are just going there for support.  They can't constitutionally do anything more than hand them water bottles or stand on a tower and look at them.

none of it apples if they are doing it on their free time, during vacations, voluntarily, this way they are not army but concerned citizens,  hey it worked in ukraine. :D

Edited by aztek

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Dark_Grey
11 minutes ago, aztek said:

none of it apples if they are doing it on their free time, during vacations, voluntarily, this way they are not army but concerned citizens,  hey it worked in ukraine. :D

Plenty of "concerned citizens" are already at the border. They have families and businesses to protect. You should see some of the trail cam footage they capture...it's quite eerie 

Arizona:

1072 Illegal Aliens and 672 Drug Smugglers, 3 confirmed firearms

 

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Gromdor
1 hour ago, Myles said:

Are you sure?   I think the average enlistment age in the Army is 20 years old.   

I joined the military when I was 17.  But yeah, the overall overage is just under 21.

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Dark_Grey

A few ideas from around the world for American defense contractors to consider:

Russia (2016)

Quote

The device is intended to make illegal border crossings completely impossible to almost anyone or anything including small UAVs [Unmanned Aerial Vehicle]. According to the engineers, the turret-like robot can detect a car from ten kilometres away and a human from a distance of seven kilometres. It can be equipped with machine guns and grenade launchers in order to provide accurate fire 400 m (1,312ft) away from the target. Less than 30 seconds is needed to put the device on alert.

India:

This is kind of cool. It's a surveillance robot that slides along a rail to patrol the fence. Israel is helping India beef up it's border security along the India/Pakistan border. After all, who's better at border security than Israel? The robot cameras are connected to a control room where human guards receive alerts if an intruder is detected. It could significantly cut down the number of Officers required at the border.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Gromdor
On 10/26/2018 at 10:25 AM, Dark_Grey said:

A few ideas from around the world for American defense contractors to consider:

Russia (2016)

India:

This is kind of cool. It's a surveillance robot that slides along a rail to patrol the fence. Israel is helping India beef up it's border security along the India/Pakistan border. After all, who's better at border security than Israel? The robot cameras are connected to a control room where human guards receive alerts if an intruder is detected. It could significantly cut down the number of Officers required at the border.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know, I actually like the rail operated surveillance camera.  It's more practical than human patrols on our 2000 mile southern border.

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Dark_Grey
On 27/10/2018 at 1:17 PM, Gromdor said:

You know, I actually like the rail operated surveillance camera.  It's more practical than human patrols on our 2000 mile southern border.

Agreed. No lethal weapons needed and it covers ground a helluva lot faster than a foot patrol. With a border as long as the Mexican/American border, this type of system makes good financial sense.

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aztek

rail camera is such an easy target, i predict it will be down most of the time, they need many small vandal proof cameras every thousand feet or so,

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Myles

Cameras are cheap.   Having small ones every hundred feet or so seems to make sense.    Along with foot patrols that can be notified of suspicious activity.   

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and then

It seems the organizers and $ponsors of this event just provided transportation so they can get them there on time for the election.

70% men under 35 is the number I've seen for the primary demographic.  And when hundreds or a couple of thousand arrive at a border crossing and demand entry?  This is a lot more serious situation than most seem to grasp.  There is already another "caravan" forming in Honduras.  Trump should sign an EO that cuts all welfare of any kind to undocumented individuals.  He should also put a 35% tax on any money being wired back to Mexico.  When he leaves office, it seems apparent that the next Prog that sits in the Oval office will simply do what Obama did.  The media will ignore it unless citizens start hunting them as they come across.  And I do mean that in the harshest sense of the word.

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aztek

44948656_2273122286062481_35548366701697
 

Quote


- Asylum was offered in Mexico, they refused. This is not a group in real danger, this is an invasion. Period. The U.N. Getting involved just further emphasizes the need for the U.S. To pull all support from the globalist corrupt organization.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2273122279395815&set=a.713179408723451&type=3&theater

 

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Dark_Grey
1 hour ago, and then said:

It seems the organizers and $ponsors of this event just provided transportation so they can get them there on time for the election.

70% men under 35 is the number I've seen for the primary demographic.  And when hundreds or a couple of thousand arrive at a border crossing and demand entry?  This is a lot more serious situation than most seem to grasp.  There is already another "caravan" forming in Honduras.  Trump should sign an EO that cuts all welfare of any kind to undocumented individuals.  He should also put a 35% tax on any money being wired back to Mexico.  When he leaves office, it seems apparent that the next Prog that sits in the Oval office will simply do what Obama did.  The media will ignore it unless citizens start hunting them as they come across.  And I do mean that in the harshest sense of the word.

Get ready, cause that seems to be where it's headed. 
Yahoo - Armed US militia groups prepare to see off migrant caravan at the Mexico border

Will armed resistance be justified if any of the migrants are armed? Would possession of a lethal weapon change one's status from "migrant" to "invader"?

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aztek
Just now, Dark_Grey said:



Will armed resistance be justified if any of the migrants are armed? Would possession of a lethal weapon change one's status from "migrant" to "invader"?

they used Molotov cocktails already, so yea,absolutely justified

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