jypsijemini Posted January 13, 2020 #251 Share Posted January 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, Habitat said: That just reads as a long-winded attempt to "cure" yourself of religious sentiment, by pointing out the absurdities inherent in the OT. I think you need to extend your enquiries further than that old tome. Who wrote most of the NT? Paul. And how much interaction did Paul have with the original followers of Jesus? Feck-all. How much did he learn from them and study under them? Nada. He claims once the spirit-scales fell from his eyes, he was filled with the holy Casper and inspired by Christ to do, say and write all that he did. He paints himself as a dedicated suffering martyr, a convert and a chaste, obedient follower of the Lord. For good measure. He'd previously been sentencing Christians to their deaths so he really had to do a Doreen Virtue and convince everybody that he was legitimate. There's a lot to consider when referring to the NT and Paul. I loved this doco. Paints a pretty realistic picture about the early church and Paul's influence over early Christianity and the Bible we use today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 13, 2020 #252 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, jypsijemini said: Who wrote most of the NT? Paul. And how much interaction did Paul have with the original followers of Jesus? Feck-all. How much did he learn from them and study under them? Nada. He claims once the spirit-scales fell from his eyes, he was filled with the holy Casper and inspired by Christ to do, say and write all that he did. He paints himself as a dedicated suffering martyr, a convert and a chaste, obedient follower of the Lord. For good measure. He'd previously been sentencing Christians to their deaths so he really had to do a Doreen Virtue and convince everybody that he was legitimate. There's a lot to consider when referring to the NT and Paul. I loved this doco. Paints a pretty realistic picture about the early church and Paul's influence over early Christianity and the Bible we use today. You also need to extend your enquiries beyond the NT and its adherents. But I sense your agenda is just to be rid of whatever residual hold a religious upbringing has on you. I think it is pretty simple, only dally with that which attracts you, or accords with your intuitions, the idea of striking off a long list of things you feel are "wrong" is just unnecessary hard work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 13, 2020 #253 Share Posted January 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, Habitat said: You also need to extend your enquiries beyond the NT and its adherents. But I sense your agenda is just to be rid of whatever residual hold a religious upbringing has on you. I think it is pretty simple, only dally with that which attracts you, or accords with your intuitions, the idea of striking off a long list of things you feel are "wrong" is just unnecessary hard work. It is so much easier to just understand that none of it is true and move on. Why study something that is to begin with...untrue? 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver Posted January 13, 2020 #254 Share Posted January 13, 2020 On 12/8/2019 at 2:01 AM, Will Due said: The kingdom of God is within everyone. Which is why, when you seek, you shall find. You will find that you still have no answers. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 13, 2020 #255 Share Posted January 13, 2020 24 minutes ago, Habitat said: You also need to extend your enquiries beyond the NT and its adherents. But I sense your agenda is just to be rid of whatever residual hold a religious upbringing has on you. I think it is pretty simple, only dally with that which attracts you, or accords with your intuitions, the idea of striking off a long list of things you feel are "wrong" is just unnecessary hard work. You know as far back as I can remember I could never believe in any omnipotent deity that knows all, sees all, and created all. It is just beyond my capacity to except such things. Now, I don't hate on anyone who choices to believe in these things, it's their life and it their choice, like John Lennon said whatever gets you through the night, it's alright, it's alright. i have been attacked and laughed at for my belief in Buddhism, Karma and reincarnation on this forum. Simply because my belief doesn't require an omnipotent deity. Buddha was nothing more than a man who went on a quest to find an enlightened way to live. This I can get behind and totally believe in because there are no Supernatural occurrences and like Buddha everyone dies in the end, the only difference is Buddhists are reincarnationed. Peace 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 13, 2020 #256 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) “You can search throughout the entire universe for someone who is more deserving of your love and affection than you are yourself, and that person is not to be found anywhere. You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.” – Buddha Generosity brings happiness at every stage of its expression. We experience joy in forming the intention to be generous. We experience joy in the actual act of giving something. And we experience joy in remembering the fact that we have given.” – Buddha Peace Edited January 13, 2020 by Manwon Lender 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 13, 2020 #257 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said: This I can get behind and totally believe in because there are no Supernatural occurrences and like Buddha everyone dies in the end, the only difference is Buddhists are reincarnationed. Reincarnation isn't "supernatural" ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 13, 2020 #258 Share Posted January 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Habitat said: Reincarnation isn't "supernatural" ? No it isn't, according to Buddhist teaching. Here is an explanation of reincarnation, by the Buddha himself. The Buddha said, “Oh, Bhikshu, every moment you are born, decay, and die.” He meant that in every moment, the illusion of "me" renews itself. Not only is nothing carried over from one life to the next; nothing is carried over from one momentto the next. This is not to say that "we" do not exist--but that there is no permanent, unchanging "me," but rather that we are redefined in every moment by shifting impermanent conditions. Suffering and dissatisfaction occur when we cling to desire for an unchanging and permanent self that is impossible and illusory. And release from that sufferi. peace 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 13, 2020 #259 Share Posted January 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: nothing is carried over from one momentto the next. That seems like nonsense, whichever way you look at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted January 13, 2020 #260 Share Posted January 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Habitat said: That seems like nonsense, whichever way you look at it. Ok I would expect no less from you! What sounds like nonsense to me is an immaculate conception, do you understand what that means? peace 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted January 13, 2020 #261 Share Posted January 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: Ok I would expect no less from you! What sounds like nonsense to me is an immaculate conception, do you understand what that means? peace Well, I never said I was accepting of an "immaculate" conception, in fact I take the view that the Jesus story only works if he is a human being, not some demi-God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra F. II Posted January 13, 2020 #262 Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 hours ago, jypsijemini said: Certainly agree. It basically reads like this: "I am God, I am omnipotent, omniscient and eternal. I have no beginning or end. I am the Creator of everything, I own everything and I control everything. Time means nothing to me - but I got to the point where I just wanted to make something. So I made humanity. I'm not really sure why - in a way, I wanted to love them. And in another, I require them to love me back otherwise I reject them. In fact, I don't just want their love. I want their absolute and unquestionable loyalty and faith. They have to believe in me. Not believing in me means that they've chosen eternal suffering and destruction but I call this 'free will'. There's really only two choices when it comes to free will though. Me or death. I made the humans and everything to be perfect - but giving them choices revealed that they were sinful all along. And I believe every single one of them would have done the same, therefore they're all inherently sinful from birth. They won't be forgiven unless they seek it from me. I used to require the deaths of animals and the scent of burning flesh in order to forgive people but decided that I'd send my son in human form instead and he'd become the final sacrifice. It's because I love the world. I've destroyed it before but I really love it now and I promised not to do it again. I want everybody to join me in eternity. But everybody gets to choose what they want because... well... that's just the way I designed it and want it to be. I made you but I'll give you a choice if you want awesome, perfect eternal life or if you're going to waste your time on Earth to just enjoy yourself which will bring about death and suffering. You only get one chance to choose. I'm pretty elusive these days so you're going to need to trust in a book that's centuries old and your personal experience to find out about me. I really like to be worshipped, adored, revered, feared and respected. After all, I'm God and I'm the only God. I'm really jealous - but that's not a bad trait because I'm God and I'm allowed to be whatever I want to be. I get to define what is good and bad, and everything I am is only good, so my jealousy is righteous, holy jealousy but your jealousy is a sin. I'm also allowed to kill people but you're not. I really don't have a reason for any of this at all. You don't get to choose whether you exist or not. I'm just going to create you whether you like it or not - but you HAVE to choose whether you believe in me or not because that's going to decide your eternal fate. Again, there's only two choices. You're more than welcome to just enjoy your time on Earth and do as you please - that's my 'free will' clause! But you'll go to Hell if you do. The only way you're going to earn yourself a ticket to eternal life is to believe in me, to accept me as your Lord and Saviour - and to follow me. Live like the book says I did. Act the way the book tells you to. Talk to me a lot. Follow my rules. Tell other people about me. Actually, make sure everyone hears about me so we can end all of this sooner. I'll come back and end it all once everyone knows about me. And then I'll make a New Heaven and a New Earth where everything's finally perfect. For reals this time. And you guys will get to enjoy it because you passed Earth 1 and decided to believe in me." I value your expression here. Again sacrificing is death and rebirth, in a sense no different then when leaves die on a tree in the fall and winter then bud and bloom in the spring and summer. The only difference is, is that there is no blood or death from a body of flesh. I understand you have no need for any of this and I respect your decision. The person who started the topic I took as wanting a deeper look and no matter what anyone's answers are here, I dont feel anyone one is right or wrong, we're all on our own individual journey to the same place at the very end anyway, which is death... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted January 13, 2020 #263 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Three Religions? Srsly? There are over 20,000 Christian sects in the USA alone, and many of them aren't really recognizably Christian. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted January 13, 2020 #264 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Guyver said: You will find that you still have no answers. The reason why you haven't found, is because you've stopped seeking. Only you know what you're really doing. And God. Edited January 13, 2020 by Will Due 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted January 13, 2020 #265 Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Will Due said: The reason why you haven't found, is because you've stopped seeking. Only you know what you're really doing. And God. No, that's confirmation bias. You search and search, and then you decide something circumstantial is what you were looking for all along. It's self-deception and shows a certain personal immaturity and dishonesty. And FFS why? Do you plan to convert your self deception into an income stream via conning people? Edited January 13, 2020 by Alchopwn 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted January 13, 2020 #266 Share Posted January 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, Alchopwn said: No, that's confirmation bias. Are you working to influence those who are honestly seeking to give it up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchopwn Posted January 14, 2020 #267 Share Posted January 14, 2020 17 hours ago, Will Due said: Are you working to influence those who are honestly seeking to give it up? An interesting choice of words. It seems like you are treating religion as a form of addiction, rather than an idea that you can choose to discard. Your words not mine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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