One God - Three Religions

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

8 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Talk about a bastardized religion.

Isn't free speech wonderful. You call it "bastardized"; I call it "evolution."

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

13 minutes ago, jypsijemini said:

He's got a point. You said "My Christian path is a mixture of Orphism and Marcionism with "orthodox" Christianity (Greco-Roman/Judeo-Christian beliefs)" which makes it near impossible to do any personal research to find out what it is you believe. Even if we understood what Orphism, Marcionism and 'orthodox' Christianity are all about, it still doesn't serve to identify what this 'mixture' is comprised of, using these "different sects within the Christian arena".

Further, how can religion 'evolve' without individuals actively appropriating beliefs?

Take, for example, cultural appropriation: " the adoption of elements of one culture by members of another culture". In this case, we are simply substituting the word "culture" for "religion". One could say that this is a form of evolution: "the gradual development of something". Religious 'evolution' usually insinuates the appropriation of ideas, beliefs and interpretations. Another example is art appropriation: "the deliberate reworking of images and styles from earlier, well-known works of art". My definition of religious appropriation: the deliberate reworking (or changing) of beliefs comprised of earlier religions, current social beliefs, opinions, personal and collective interpretations and even personal preferences.

The changing of religion is never accidental, or natural progression/change. Someone, at some point, decides that certain beliefs are irrelevant and inapplicable because of cultural and social 'evolution' or change.

Take, for example, Christian 'sects' that refuse to alter or abandon their practices and beliefs in order to 'evolve' with the times. Compare Lutherans to Evangelicals or Pentecostals. It's like two completely different worlds. This isn't religious evolution - this is appropriation. Someone made a decision that robes and hymns were outdated and irrelevant to modern Christianity and in an attempt to 'evolve' Christianity, the practices were dropped. Similarly, conservative beliefs such as homosexuality being sinful are completely disregarded and argued against by many modern and newer denominations - not because the religion itself evolved, but because individuals within the Christian 'arena' appropriated the cultural and social acceptance of the practice of homosexuality and decided the religion would be better off if the beliefs themselves changed. The Bible still says the same - but the interpretation is different.

So please, enlighten us. You say that you "do not talk about the sanctity of (your) path" - but you're here, discussing your beliefs and having your part in this discussion, so throw us a bone here and tell us what you mean.

 I'm running late, but from what I've gathered so far, your post is full of assumptions, and it's going to take volumes to answer your post. Buy some books if you really want to know. I'm not here to convert you, nor do I care about it. Things I've said can be researched, but the "spiritual" side (for lack of a better word without being New Age about it) is another matter, and that's the "holy." Again, do some work since you already have the questions.

Edited December 10, 2019 by magnum mysterium

[XenoFish]

13 minutes ago, magnum mysterium said:

 I'm running late, but from what I've gathered so far, your post is full of assumptions, and it's going to take volumes to answer your post. Buy some books if you really want to know. I'm not here to convert you, nor do I care about it. Things I've said can be researched, but the "spiritual" side (for lack of a better word without being New Age about it) is another matter, and that's the "holy." Again, do some work since you already have the questions.

So you're not here to discuss? 

[Festina]

All three worship the god of war and are bloodthirsty — so none.  All three endorse or engage in blood sacrifice of the innocent for the forgiveness of the sins of the guilty.  

 

 

 

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

24 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So you're not here to discuss? 

 

51 minutes ago, jypsijemini said:

So please, enlighten us. You say that you "do not talk about the sanctity of (your) path" - but you're here, discussing your beliefs and having your part in this discussion, so throw us a bone here and tell us what you mean.

Here's the rub, not even scholars today (at least from what I've read and seen), or at least most of them, will not be able to answer you because they are too wrapped up in their debunking, even though the clues are right under their noses. The trick about Christian is to start from the beginning, and the Sybil uttered the first words, and we don't have a book about Erythrean Sybil. Again, it is a very long story, and we have the Ebionite's version of Christianity to deal with, as well, even though that is DEFINITELY not my path. When I say "evolution," it is literally the right way to describe my path because the Jesus I follow is completely unlike the Ebionite's messiah. Answering this post is like explaining how to create a computer program to my grandfather, who had never used a cell phone in his life. So much to say, and my ride is here.

[jypsijemini]

34 minutes ago, magnum mysterium said:

 I'm running late, but from what I've gathered so far, your post is full of assumptions, and it's going to take volumes to answer your post. Buy some books if you really want to know. I'm not here to convert you, nor do I care about it. Things I've said can be researched, but the "spiritual" side (for lack of a better word without being New Age about it) is another matter, and that's the "holy." Again, do some work since you already have the questions.

Again, no amount of 'research' into three sects of Christendom is going to answer the question, "So what exactly is it that you believe?" because you described it as a mixture. I don't know what your recipe is. I can't just assume that you believe all three as they are, and I can't assume to know what you accept or reject from either one. That's why I'm asking you directly.

No one's claiming that your purpose for being here or even participating in discussion is to convert.

And using the term, "spiritual" doesn't have to mean "New Age". Correct me if I'm wrong but do you have some sort of aversion to the word simply because you don't resonate with the way the word 'spirituality' has been used by non-religious "New Age" beliefs? To me, it can be used by anybody considering we're talking about the spirit, and spiritual nature of a person. Soulfulness. It's all referring to the same concept...

The onus isn't on me to research the terms you use to understand what you mean and what you believe. I'd be making more assumptions and straying further away from true understanding if I just google everything you've mentioned - which is why I'm coming directly to the source and asking you kindly to elaborate so that I can gain a more accurate understanding. Not in order to judge - just so I can understand. I'm asking you out of respect, not hostility or aggression towards your beliefs.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

11 minutes ago, jypsijemini said:

"So what exactly is it that you believe?"

One really has to be "born again" or gain Gnosis to make sense of the story. A person has to see the actual Being to make sense of the Sybil, the story of Orpheus, and the journey of Christianity from Rome to now. "Iesus Christos" is still around. The rest is the individual's journey.

I'm out-the-door.

Peace.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

26 minutes ago, magnum mysterium said:

I'm out-the-door.

Peace.

Good luck with that. I hope you make it this time. 

[Festina]

On 12/7/2018 at 5:50 PM, XenoFish said:

Think again.

https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Falsereligion

So yeah. Christianity is basically nothing more than a sun cult of a demi-god like figure. 

Yes indeedy and there should be no issue with SUN worship for we know it exists and there are no doubts of its it’s beneficence. “Oh Hail The SUN of GOD” — works for me. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_deity

 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Festina Lente

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

9 hours ago, jypsijemini said:

...straying further away from true understanding if I just google everything you've mentioned - which is why I'm coming directly to the source and asking you kindly to elaborate so that I can gain a more accurate understanding. Not in order to judge - just so I can understand. I'm asking you out of respect, not hostility or aggression towards your beliefs.

Just relisted two of my YouTube playlists. Please see below (but one has to be logged-in to see them...), and combine these with ALL my posts on UM.

Thank you for respecting my beliefs!

Edited December 11, 2019 by magnum mysterium
add

[Debra F. II]

On 10/23/2018 at 5:56 PM, sci-nerd said:

Judaism, christianity and islam all share the same God, but they differ in age.

Judaism is 3,000 years old
Christianity is 2,000 years old
Islam is 1,400 years old

So the question is: Is newer better? Or is older better?
Did God make mistakes that he had to correct, or are the never versions human alterations?

As I understand this God, he's perfect, error-free and makes no mistakes, but according to christianity and islam he did. Or what?

Please help this poor lost soul understand!

In my personal opinion from my studies and from my own beliefs...

I can't say that newer is better, maybe in medicine but not in religion. 

Some times, some new religions are made up are from misunderstandings the original text and from their own personal understanding and not that of it's TRUE meaning; and in turn sometimes the individuals following these newer versions are driven farther  away from Gods words and his orginal intent. Sometimes these new religions are driven by politics. Some are driven by deranged individuals with bad underlying intent, and sometimes generally for personal (and sometimes national) gain. All of this is the work of the devil, (Satan, evil or whatever ya want to call it) and this is his / it's job to do so and he is very good at his job.)

I dont think that God necessarily made mistakes, (man is the one who made the mistske) however I do think as he watched his creation of man develope, and as more time went on I think that God saw that changes were needed and more time went on and he may have seen changes again were needed for the modern man / believer, but it is said that Gods words never change but man does therefore, I think most if not all of the changes were done by the hand of man not God.

Society, economics, authority figures and the devil have ways of shifting and shaping us down here that are out of the believers control, that is why we have hope and faith (and when we trust in God and put God above ALL others it is only then that we can experience God's love for us as individuals.)

God did not make mistakes, man has. All of Gods creatures and creations are perfect. Mans choices however are not. Sinning and trials and hardships and sorrow and challemged and devistsions and disasters and all else bad, is part of life and the process that is needed to draw us closer to him.

Your soul is not lost but the mind behind the soul may be.

Just my take on it, (I understand I most likely will be hit with criticism from some people, I am prepared and actually expect nothing less lol but it matters very little to me what others think about me, what is important is what God thinks.)

[Debra F. II]

On 12/7/2018 at 8:50 PM, XenoFish said:

Think again.

https://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Falsereligion

So yeah. Christianity is basically nothing more than a sun cult of a demi-god like figure. 

I have to agree to disagree lol

True yes, very true but you also have a large handful of the so call Christian people who believe that Saturday is the true Sabbath.

Most of these people who agree with Jesus to congregate and hold fast with a liked minded group still only meet on Sundays but not by choice though. However you do see more Christian church's now who are finally starting to offer Saturday worship but only because they now feel safe enough to.

Others are so used to the Sunday ritual they just plainly, flat out refuse to offer Saturday worship but even in these cases most Christians 98.5% do not worship the "Sun God".

[XenoFish]

11 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

I have to agree to disagree lol

True yes, very true but you also have a large handful of the so call Christian people who believe that Saturday is the true Sabbath.

Most of these people who agree with Jesus to congregate and hold fast with a liked minded group still only meet on Sundays but not by choice though. However you do see more Christian church's now who are finally starting to offer Saturday worship but only because they now feel safe enough to.

Others are so used to the Sunday ritual they just plainly, flat out refuse to offer Saturday worship but even in these cases most Christians 98.5% do not worship the "Sun God".

Doesn't matter. Ever religion is man-made. So all of them are false. 

[Debra F. II]

On 12/10/2019 at 11:14 AM, Marcion Meets E. Sibyl said:

 but the "spiritual" side (for lack of a better word without being New Age about it) is another matter, and that's the "holy." Again, do some work since you already have the questions.

 

This is what I have discovered with "New Age"  

Correct me if i am wrong here but when New Age first came out it was great!

One big happy family a place for believers of Christ, it didn't matter if you were Catholic, Methodist, Shamanism, Protestant, ect. We finally got to lose those titles!  It didnt matter what race or color, if you were male, female, child, elderly, handicapped or the parolee.

ALL were accepted no one rejected!

And with all of the people coming out of the closet at these times with their sexuality, these people finally also had a place to worship in and a place to call their own, they found friends and believers who did not judge them.

But then "New Age" in a very short time QUICKLY became a place where you would find medium ships and physics, all of this was still all on the up and up side of things, until the darkness rolled in, in came wiccan, witchcraft, high priestesses and high priests, black magic, the occult and even the Satan worshipers and pretty much sadly the dark, out numbered the believers in the one true God. Before you know it people were quitting and no longer felt it was a safe environment for them to be in. 

I have seen New Age struggle with this sort of thing on three accounts. 

Maybe in other areas  this isn't a problem for the New Age community but in Michigan's this is what it has become. Very few members left and a mix of uncertainty and insecurity.

[zep73]

11 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

In my personal opinion from my studies and from my own beliefs...

I can't say that newer is better, maybe in medicine but not in religion. 

Some times, some new religions are made up are from misunderstandings the original text and from their own personal understanding and not that of it's TRUE meaning; and in turn sometimes the individuals following these newer versions are driven farther  away from Gods words and his orginal intent. Sometimes these new religions are driven by politics. Some are driven by deranged individuals with bad underlying intent, and sometimes generally for personal (and sometimes national) gain. All of this is the work of the devil, (Satan, evil or whatever ya want to call it) and this is his / it's job to do so and he is very good at his job.)

I dont think that God necessarily made mistakes, (man is the one who made the mistske) however I do think as he watched his creation of man develope, and as more time went on I think that God saw that changes were needed and more time went on and he may have seen changes again were needed for the modern man / believer, but it is said that Gods words never change but man does therefore, I think most if not all of the changes were done by the hand of man not God.

Society, economics, authority figures and the devil have ways of shifting and shaping us down here that are out of the believers control, that is why we have hope and faith (and when we trust in God and put God above ALL others it is only then that we can experience God's love for us as individuals.)

God did not make mistakes, man has. All of Gods creatures and creations are perfect. Mans choices however are not. Sinning and trials and hardships and sorrow and challemged and devistsions and disasters and all else bad, is part of life and the process that is needed to draw us closer to him.

Your soul is not lost but the mind behind the soul may be.

Just my take on it, (I understand I most likely will be hit with criticism from some people, I am prepared and actually expect nothing less lol but it matters very little to me what others think about me, what is important is what God thinks.)

Can we agree that he is very fond of himself? Love me, worship me, choose me above everything else, I am the greatest, I never make mistakes, &, if you cross me, I want blood. If a human had that attitude, we'd call him/her a megalomaniac.

And I don't get why his demand for blood was so great, that he'd have his own son slaughtered? That's seriously bad parenting!
Another aspect of his son's slaughter was that it was the final sacrifice. So, is that to be interpreted as a change of mind? Did he realise that blood sacrifice was a bad idea?

Finally, he's supposed to know the future, right? And yet he chooses to go through with events he already knows the outcome of. I find that odd. It reminds me of a child watching his/her favorite cartoon. They've seen it a hundred times, and yet they're just as thrilled to watch it again, because they like repetition and predictability. It's comforting. That, combined with the megalomania and the change of heart regarding blood sacrifice, draws a picture of a less than perfect deity. Almost childlike.

I also think that most people today, who believe in god, believes in a non-biblical version, because they consider him to be too malevolent and wacky.

Edited January 12, 2020 by sci-nerd

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

10 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

 

This is what I have discovered with "New Age"  

Correct me if i am wrong here but when New Age first came out it was great!

One big happy family a place for believers of Christ, it didn't matter if you were Catholic, Methodist, Shamanism, Protestant, ect. We finally got to lose those titles!  It didnt matter what race or color, if you were male, female, child, elderly, handicapped or the parolee.

ALL were accepted no one rejected!

And with all of the people coming out of the closet at these times with their sexuality, these people finally also had a place to worship in and a place to call their own, they found friends and believers who did not judge them.

But then "New Age" in a very short time QUICKLY became a place where you would find medium ships and physics, all of this was still all on the up and up side of things, until the darkness rolled in, in came wiccan, witchcraft, high priestesses and high priests, black magic, the occult and even the Satan worshipers and pretty much sadly the dark, out numbered the believers in the one true God. Before you know it people were quitting and no longer felt it was a safe environment for them to be in. 

I have seen New Age struggle with this sort of thing on three accounts. 

Maybe in other areas  this isn't a problem for the New Age community but in Michigan's this is what it has become. Very few members left and a mix of uncertainty and insecurity.

This is a big topic, but...

New Age "is" fine, as long as one ignores the finer details of one's chosen Christian denomination or version. After all, Christendom is united by the name "Iesus Christos" or Jesus Christ (more or less) and separated by the finer details of one's chosen creed, stories, or Christology. So, orthodox Christians do not have a monopoly on the "official" Jesus Christ narratives. With these in mind, ignorance is a relative bliss when it comes to a "Christian," who also say that he or she is a "New Age" devotee; then again, there is a ring of truth to that, too, but one has to REALLY know the finer details of one's chosen Christian path. At any rate, here is a Christian saying that works for ALL Christians (including early Gnostics and Marcionites): "No one can serve two masters..." and "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers..."

The "New Age" movement is simply the continuity of the old religions, which deal with ancient gods...and the god of the orthodox Bible is part of that Divine Council, the gods of old. On the other hand, according to Marcion, Jesus' "Father" is completely alien to us. This particular "Father" is NOT the creator god — BTW.

Peace!

Edited January 12, 2020 by Marcion Meets E. Sibyl
duplicate word

[Debra F. II]

13 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Doesn't matter. Ever religion is man-made. So all of them are false. 

And some driven by spirit. I dont think we have the right to say ALL are false.

[+Desertrat56]

On 10/23/2018 at 5:28 PM, seanjo said:

Christianity is the better of the three.

That just shows that you know nothing of the other sects.  Christianity is only better for the zombies that follow what ever made up doctrines their leader or authority figure tells them to.   There is no one Christian sect, there are hundreds and they all disagree on many important ideals.

[XenoFish]

28 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

And some driven by spirit. I dont think we have the right to say ALL are false.

All of them. Not a single one is correct. Each and every religion and spiritual ideology is just someone's guess work.

[Debra F. II]

15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

All of them. Not a single one is correct. Each and every religion and spiritual ideology is just someone's guess work.

Ok it's your story, your opinion and mine is the opposite of yours no biggie  : )

[+joc]

14 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

44 minutes ago, Debra F. II said:

And some driven by spirit. I dont think we have the right to say ALL are false.

All of them. Not a single one is correct. Each and every religion and spiritual ideology is just someone's guess work.

I don't think there is a 'rightness' or 'wrongness' to the truth.  The truth just is.  If all we have to base the entire Entity thing on is ancient words of ambiguous humans...then I think it is fine to say the truth is that they are ALL False.

I haven't ever seen the Entity god...nor has anyone else.

[jypsijemini]

16 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

 

This is what I have discovered with "New Age"  

Correct me if i am wrong here but when New Age first came out it was great!

One big happy family a place for believers of Christ, it didn't matter if you were Catholic, Methodist, Shamanism, Protestant, ect. We finally got to lose those titles!  It didnt matter what race or color, if you were male, female, child, elderly, handicapped or the parolee.

ALL were accepted no one rejected!

And with all of the people coming out of the closet at these times with their sexuality, these people finally also had a place to worship in and a place to call their own, they found friends and believers who did not judge them.

But then "New Age" in a very short time QUICKLY became a place where you would find medium ships and physics, all of this was still all on the up and up side of things, until the darkness rolled in, in came wiccan, witchcraft, high priestesses and high priests, black magic, the occult and even the Satan worshipers and pretty much sadly the dark, out numbered the believers in the one true God. Before you know it people were quitting and no longer felt it was a safe environment for them to be in. 

I have seen New Age struggle with this sort of thing on three accounts. 

Maybe in other areas  this isn't a problem for the New Age community but in Michigan's this is what it has become. Very few members left and a mix of uncertainty and insecurity.

Firstly, when did you first notice the New Age movement and when do you feel it 'came out' in your area?

I've very briefly looked through some wiki and encyclopedia documents that mention the New Age and the term is very, very undefined.

But it doesn't seem to make mention that it originated as a Christian movement.

It is a broad, loose term used mostly by theologians and observers of religious/spiritual movements to describe a new branch of believers.

And in most modern cases, people who would-be described as New Age spiritualists don't even use that term about themselves.

Let me add that there can be no correlation or mixing-in of mediums and psychics with Christian belief. Yes, it happens - but from my understanding of the Bible, God was always the one to tell his prophets about the future. Mediums and psychics tend to attribute their visions and predictions to their 'gift' (personalising the ability) and very rarely will you find a psychic medium who claims to only hear from God. It's also not one of the spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 12 (written by Paul) claims that with the Holy Spirit, believers will receive spiritual gifts of various forms - and that some of those are 'discerning between spirits' and 'prophesy'. However, at the start of the passage, it also mentioned that no one can declare that Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, anyone who is a Christian and seeks out psychic mediums, or anyone who claims to be a psychic medium and also a Christian - is not living in line with what the bible says. They've intentionally interpreted it in a way that allows them to dabble in both worlds.

As a spiritual gift, the bible does not say that one with such gifts will be able to communicate with the spirits of the dead. Similarly, the gift of prophesy doesn't mean that those with the gift are given the ability to tell a person's future. Prophesy is a gift from God and quite obviously wouldn't be such that those chosen to have this gift would be given the ability and right to fortune tell for the layman.

It intrigues me that the term, "New Age" is actually being adopted and used intentionally by Christians, even today. I personally know a young pastor who is creating a new idea and movement under this terminology just recently, despite it's heavy connotations and social identification with the "Occult".

Spiritualists generally don't describe themselves as New Age. Maybe the heavier, more 'occult' believers do - like the ones you mentioned - the people who are practicing magick and sorcery, who identify as witches and wiccans, the satanists etc. But generally speaking, "New Age" has had such a negative social connotation for the past fifty years on genuine spiritualists (not the religious/Christians that use this title) that most abandon it or avoid using it altogether.

I use it when I want to introduce someone to my beliefs and it's the quickest, easiest way to separate myself from religious 'spirituality' and to just convey that I am spiritual without religious beliefs and indoctrination. When I say, "I'm what you'd call a New Age spiritual hippy weirdo," people know exactly what I mean. "Oh, you're into energy, healing, crystals, meditation, incense burning, card reading, palm reading, unity, oneness, body-mind-spirit, love and the Universe". Sometimes it's just easier to use that term to convey a quick answer/idea. And sometimes it's a way to shoot myself in the foot because people will also assume that I'm into ALL the "New Age woo" about angels and dolphins and mermaids and fairies and sorcery and witchcraft and all the stuff I personally reject but that comes under the banner of 'New Age'.

Which is why it's hard to imagine why Christians are now trying to redefine and reuse the term. Maybe Christians were using it when it first really became a thing back in the 70s and it just kinda naturally became more of a spiritual thing that separated 'religious' from 'spiritual believers'. But now it's just going to really confuse people. They're going to think that New Age Christianity condones all of the "occult" stuff.

I don't think, nor can I find any documents to support the idea that 'New Age' was a Christian movement that was infiltrated and taken over. I think it's more likely that it was a popular, new term floating around that many spiritual/religious believers identified with because of the definition of the term and began to use in their own circles - and that socially it naturally was attached to non-religious spiritual believers over time because they didn't really even have a title. The term "occult" was too heavy for those who were spiritual but not psychics, mediums, witches etc. And Christianity was also using the term 'spiritual' - so dubbing this spiritual group as "New Age" (because historically it is quite a new spiritual movement and it came about in conjunction to the new astrological age, Aquarius) just naturally fell into use for this group. It's used more by observers of the movement than it is by those who are defined by it.

 

[Debra F. II]

6 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Can we agree that he is very fond of himself? Love me, worship me, choose me above everything else, I am the greatest, I never make mistakes, &, if you cross me, I want blood. If a human had that attitude, we'd call him/her a megalomaniac.

And I don't get why his demand for blood was so great, that he'd have his own son slaughtered? That's seriously bad parenting!
Another aspect of his son's slaughter was that it was the final sacrifice. So, is that to be interpreted as a change of mind? Did he realise that blood sacrifice was a bad idea?

Finally, he's supposed to know the future, right? And yet he chooses to go through with events he already knows the outcome of. I find that odd. It reminds me of a child watching his/her favorite cartoon. They've seen it a hundred times, and yet they're just as thrilled to watch it again, because they like repetition and predictability. It's comforting. That, combined with the megalomania and the change of heart regarding blood sacrifice, draws a picture of a less than perfect deity. Almost childlike.

I also think that most people today, who believe in god, believes in a non-biblical version, because they consider him to be too malevolent and wacky.

lol

No sorry I can not agree, if he were fond of "himself" he would not have given his only begotten son for all of us idiots and sinners. lol

He has given man pigs as a means to cats demons and evil into, if he were all about himself he wouldn't have cared and our souls would have been lost to the devil for eternity. 

He's given ALL, EVERYTHING to us. The food we eat the animals and instructions of what to eat and when and according to our sins so that we may be forgiven, that is three things that show he is not fond of himself. Although he states he is a jealous God which means worship me only and things will be easier for you.

Prior to giving his only son up to save us. Blood sacrifices were a stick means of showing God that we are obedient to him and his laws, with each sacrifice there are listens in them as well.

His words have not change, man did, with the Roman's and war and with animal rights groups and other newer religious beliefs, among other reasons, it has become a thing of the past now for most. It was originally designed to signify death and rebirth as well the cleansing of wrong doing and asking for forgiveness. It was man and evil that took it to the next level of muder and of human scraifces.

Going through events he already knows the outcome to, in my opinion, is for our sake and growth, again it is an act for us not him. 

And maybe to some they might thing it is wacky but I think it is because they may lack understanding and meaning and the education behind it all. I am lacking, learning, growing, understanding and doing only the best I can for the times that I live in, my environment and for the society driven world and the demands of man that man has put in place. Much confusions has risen from vearing off and away from the original texts, which God also knows that for the people living today is out of their control. Choices in beliefs is what is left and it is choices that will determine what side a person is on; meaning Godly / Heavenly or Devilsh / hellish.

[jypsijemini]

7 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Can we agree that he is very fond of himself? Love me, worship me, choose me above everything else, I am the greatest, I never make mistakes, &, if you cross me, I want blood. If a human had that attitude, we'd call him/her a megalomaniac.

And I don't get why his demand for blood was so great, that he'd have his own son slaughtered? That's seriously bad parenting!
Another aspect of his son's slaughter was that it was the final sacrifice. So, is that to be interpreted as a change of mind? Did he realise that blood sacrifice was a bad idea?

Finally, he's supposed to know the future, right? And yet he chooses to go through with events he already knows the outcome of. I find that odd. It reminds me of a child watching his/her favorite cartoon. They've seen it a hundred times, and yet they're just as thrilled to watch it again, because they like repetition and predictability. It's comforting. That, combined with the megalomania and the change of heart regarding blood sacrifice, draws a picture of a less than perfect deity. Almost childlike.

I also think that most people today, who believe in god, believes in a non-biblical version, because they consider him to be too malevolent and wacky.

Certainly agree. It basically reads like this:

"I am God, I am omnipotent, omniscient and eternal. I have no beginning or end. I am the Creator of everything, I own everything and I control everything. Time means nothing to me - but I got to the point where I just wanted to make something. So I made humanity. I'm not really sure why - in a way, I wanted to love them. And in another, I require them to love me back otherwise I reject them. In fact, I don't just want their love. I want their absolute and unquestionable loyalty and faith. They have to believe in me. Not believing in me means that they've chosen eternal suffering and destruction but I call this 'free will'. There's really only two choices when it comes to free will though. Me or death.

I made the humans and everything to be perfect - but giving them choices revealed that they were sinful all along. And I believe every single one of them would have done the same, therefore they're all inherently sinful from birth. They won't be forgiven unless they seek it from me. I used to require the deaths of animals and the scent of burning flesh in order to forgive people but decided that I'd send my son in human form instead and he'd become the final sacrifice. It's because I love the world. I've destroyed it before but I really love it now and I promised not to do it again. I want everybody to join me in eternity.

But everybody gets to choose what they want because... well... that's just the way I designed it and want it to be. I made you but I'll give you a choice if you want awesome, perfect eternal life or if you're going to waste your time on Earth to just enjoy yourself which will bring about death and suffering. You only get one chance to choose. I'm pretty elusive these days so you're going to need to trust in a book that's centuries old and your personal experience to find out about me. I really like to be worshipped, adored, revered, feared and respected. After all, I'm God and I'm the only God. I'm really jealous - but that's not a bad trait because I'm God and I'm allowed to be whatever I want to be. I get to define what is good and bad, and everything I am is only good, so my jealousy is righteous, holy jealousy but your jealousy is a sin. I'm also allowed to kill people but you're not.

I really don't have a reason for any of this at all. You don't get to choose whether you exist or not. I'm just going to create you whether you like it or not - but you HAVE to choose whether you believe in me or not because that's going to decide your eternal fate. Again, there's only two choices. You're more than welcome to just enjoy your time on Earth and do as you please - that's my 'free will' clause! But you'll go to Hell if you do. The only way you're going to earn yourself a ticket to eternal life is to believe in me, to accept me as your Lord and Saviour - and to follow me. Live like the book says I did. Act the way the book tells you to. Talk to me a lot. Follow my rules. Tell other people about me. Actually, make sure everyone hears about me so we can end all of this sooner. I'll come back and end it all once everyone knows about me.

And then I'll make a New Heaven and a New Earth where everything's finally perfect. For reals this time. And you guys will get to enjoy it because you passed Earth 1 and decided to believe in me."

[Habitat]

2 hours ago, jypsijemini said:

Certainly agree. It basically reads like this:

"I am God, I am omnipotent, omniscient and eternal. I have no beginning or end. I am the Creator of everything, I own everything and I control everything. Time means nothing to me - but I got to the point where I just wanted to make something. So I made humanity. I'm not really sure why - in a way, I wanted to love them. And in another, I require them to love me back otherwise I reject them. In fact, I don't just want their love. I want their absolute and unquestionable loyalty and faith. They have to believe in me. Not believing in me means that they've chosen eternal suffering and destruction but I call this 'free will'. There's really only two choices when it comes to free will though. Me or death.

I made the humans and everything to be perfect - but giving them choices revealed that they were sinful all along. And I believe every single one of them would have done the same, therefore they're all inherently sinful from birth. They won't be forgiven unless they seek it from me. I used to require the deaths of animals and the scent of burning flesh in order to forgive people but decided that I'd send my son in human form instead and he'd become the final sacrifice. It's because I love the world. I've destroyed it before but I really love it now and I promised not to do it again. I want everybody to join me in eternity.

But everybody gets to choose what they want because... well... that's just the way I designed it and want it to be. I made you but I'll give you a choice if you want awesome, perfect eternal life or if you're going to waste your time on Earth to just enjoy yourself which will bring about death and suffering. You only get one chance to choose. I'm pretty elusive these days so you're going to need to trust in a book that's centuries old and your personal experience to find out about me. I really like to be worshipped, adored, revered, feared and respected. After all, I'm God and I'm the only God. I'm really jealous - but that's not a bad trait because I'm God and I'm allowed to be whatever I want to be. I get to define what is good and bad, and everything I am is only good, so my jealousy is righteous, holy jealousy but your jealousy is a sin. I'm also allowed to kill people but you're not.

I really don't have a reason for any of this at all. You don't get to choose whether you exist or not. I'm just going to create you whether you like it or not - but you HAVE to choose whether you believe in me or not because that's going to decide your eternal fate. Again, there's only two choices. You're more than welcome to just enjoy your time on Earth and do as you please - that's my 'free will' clause! But you'll go to Hell if you do. The only way you're going to earn yourself a ticket to eternal life is to believe in me, to accept me as your Lord and Saviour - and to follow me. Live like the book says I did. Act the way the book tells you to. Talk to me a lot. Follow my rules. Tell other people about me. Actually, make sure everyone hears about me so we can end all of this sooner. I'll come back and end it all once everyone knows about me.

And then I'll make a New Heaven and a New Earth where everything's finally perfect. For reals this time. And you guys will get to enjoy it because you passed Earth 1 and decided to believe in me."

That just reads as a long-winded attempt to "cure" yourself of religious sentiment, by pointing out the absurdities inherent in the OT. I think you need to extend your enquiries further than that old tome.