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One God - Three Religions

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jypsijemini
16 hours ago, Debra F. II said:

 

This is what I have discovered with "New Age"  

Correct me if i am wrong here but when New Age first came out it was great!

One big happy family a place for believers of Christ, it didn't matter if you were Catholic, Methodist, Shamanism, Protestant, ect. We finally got to lose those titles!  It didnt matter what race or color, if you were male, female, child, elderly, handicapped or the parolee.

ALL were accepted no one rejected!

And with all of the people coming out of the closet at these times with their sexuality, these people finally also had a place to worship in and a place to call their own, they found friends and believers who did not judge them.

But then "New Age" in a very short time QUICKLY became a place where you would find medium ships and physics, all of this was still all on the up and up side of things, until the darkness rolled in, in came wiccan, witchcraft, high priestesses and high priests, black magic, the occult and even the Satan worshipers and pretty much sadly the dark, out numbered the believers in the one true God. Before you know it people were quitting and no longer felt it was a safe environment for them to be in. 

I have seen New Age struggle with this sort of thing on three accounts. 

Maybe in other areas  this isn't a problem for the New Age community but in Michigan's this is what it has become. Very few members left and a mix of uncertainty and insecurity.

Firstly, when did you first notice the New Age movement and when do you feel it 'came out' in your area?

I've very briefly looked through some wiki and encyclopedia documents that mention the New Age and the term is very, very undefined.

But it doesn't seem to make mention that it originated as a Christian movement.

It is a broad, loose term used mostly by theologians and observers of religious/spiritual movements to describe a new branch of believers.

And in most modern cases, people who would-be described as New Age spiritualists don't even use that term about themselves.

Let me add that there can be no correlation or mixing-in of mediums and psychics with Christian belief. Yes, it happens - but from my understanding of the Bible, God was always the one to tell his prophets about the future. Mediums and psychics tend to attribute their visions and predictions to their 'gift' (personalising the ability) and very rarely will you find a psychic medium who claims to only hear from God. It's also not one of the spiritual gifts mentioned in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 12 (written by Paul) claims that with the Holy Spirit, believers will receive spiritual gifts of various forms - and that some of those are 'discerning between spirits' and 'prophesy'. However, at the start of the passage, it also mentioned that no one can declare that Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, anyone who is a Christian and seeks out psychic mediums, or anyone who claims to be a psychic medium and also a Christian - is not living in line with what the bible says. They've intentionally interpreted it in a way that allows them to dabble in both worlds.

As a spiritual gift, the bible does not say that one with such gifts will be able to communicate with the spirits of the dead. Similarly, the gift of prophesy doesn't mean that those with the gift are given the ability to tell a person's future. Prophesy is a gift from God and quite obviously wouldn't be such that those chosen to have this gift would be given the ability and right to fortune tell for the layman.

It intrigues me that the term, "New Age" is actually being adopted and used intentionally by Christians, even today. I personally know a young pastor who is creating a new idea and movement under this terminology just recently, despite it's heavy connotations and social identification with the "Occult".

Spiritualists generally don't describe themselves as New Age. Maybe the heavier, more 'occult' believers do - like the ones you mentioned - the people who are practicing magick and sorcery, who identify as witches and wiccans, the satanists etc. But generally speaking, "New Age" has had such a negative social connotation for the past fifty years on genuine spiritualists (not the religious/Christians that use this title) that most abandon it or avoid using it altogether.

I use it when I want to introduce someone to my beliefs and it's the quickest, easiest way to separate myself from religious 'spirituality' and to just convey that I am spiritual without religious beliefs and indoctrination. When I say, "I'm what you'd call a New Age spiritual hippy weirdo," people know exactly what I mean. "Oh, you're into energy, healing, crystals, meditation, incense burning, card reading, palm reading, unity, oneness, body-mind-spirit, love and the Universe". Sometimes it's just easier to use that term to convey a quick answer/idea. And sometimes it's a way to shoot myself in the foot because people will also assume that I'm into ALL the "New Age woo" about angels and dolphins and mermaids and fairies and sorcery and witchcraft and all the stuff I personally reject but that comes under the banner of 'New Age'.

Which is why it's hard to imagine why Christians are now trying to redefine and reuse the term. Maybe Christians were using it when it first really became a thing back in the 70s and it just kinda naturally became more of a spiritual thing that separated 'religious' from 'spiritual believers'. But now it's just going to really confuse people. They're going to think that New Age Christianity condones all of the "occult" stuff.

I don't think, nor can I find any documents to support the idea that 'New Age' was a Christian movement that was infiltrated and taken over. I think it's more likely that it was a popular, new term floating around that many spiritual/religious believers identified with because of the definition of the term and began to use in their own circles - and that socially it naturally was attached to non-religious spiritual believers over time because they didn't really even have a title. The term "occult" was too heavy for those who were spiritual but not psychics, mediums, witches etc. And Christianity was also using the term 'spiritual' - so dubbing this spiritual group as "New Age" (because historically it is quite a new spiritual movement and it came about in conjunction to the new astrological age, Aquarius) just naturally fell into use for this group. It's used more by observers of the movement than it is by those who are defined by it.

 

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Debra F. II
6 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Can we agree that he is very fond of himself? Love me, worship me, choose me above everything else, I am the greatest, I never make mistakes, &, if you cross me, I want blood. If a human had that attitude, we'd call him/her a megalomaniac.

And I don't get why his demand for blood was so great, that he'd have his own son slaughtered? That's seriously bad parenting!
Another aspect of his son's slaughter was that it was the final sacrifice. So, is that to be interpreted as a change of mind? Did he realise that blood sacrifice was a bad idea?

Finally, he's supposed to know the future, right? And yet he chooses to go through with events he already knows the outcome of. I find that odd. It reminds me of a child watching his/her favorite cartoon. They've seen it a hundred times, and yet they're just as thrilled to watch it again, because they like repetition and predictability. It's comforting. That, combined with the megalomania and the change of heart regarding blood sacrifice, draws a picture of a less than perfect deity. Almost childlike.

I also think that most people today, who believe in god, believes in a non-biblical version, because they consider him to be too malevolent and wacky.

lol

No sorry I can not agree, if he were fond of "himself" he would not have given his only begotten son for all of us idiots and sinners. lol

He has given man pigs as a means to cats demons and evil into, if he were all about himself he wouldn't have cared and our souls would have been lost to the devil for eternity. 

He's given ALL, EVERYTHING to us. The food we eat the animals and instructions of what to eat and when and according to our sins so that we may be forgiven, that is three things that show he is not fond of himself. Although he states he is a jealous God which means worship me only and things will be easier for you.

Prior to giving his only son up to save us. Blood sacrifices were a stick means of showing God that we are obedient to him and his laws, with each sacrifice there are listens in them as well.

His words have not change, man did, with the Roman's and war and with animal rights groups and other newer religious beliefs, among other reasons, it has become a thing of the past now for most. It was originally designed to signify death and rebirth as well the cleansing of wrong doing and asking for forgiveness. It was man and evil that took it to the next level of muder and of human scraifces.

Going through events he already knows the outcome to, in my opinion, is for our sake and growth, again it is an act for us not him. 

And maybe to some they might thing it is wacky but I think it is because they may lack understanding and meaning and the education behind it all. I am lacking, learning, growing, understanding and doing only the best I can for the times that I live in, my environment and for the society driven world and the demands of man that man has put in place. Much confusions has risen from vearing off and away from the original texts, which God also knows that for the people living today is out of their control. Choices in beliefs is what is left and it is choices that will determine what side a person is on; meaning Godly / Heavenly or Devilsh / hellish.

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jypsijemini
7 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Can we agree that he is very fond of himself? Love me, worship me, choose me above everything else, I am the greatest, I never make mistakes, &, if you cross me, I want blood. If a human had that attitude, we'd call him/her a megalomaniac.

And I don't get why his demand for blood was so great, that he'd have his own son slaughtered? That's seriously bad parenting!
Another aspect of his son's slaughter was that it was the final sacrifice. So, is that to be interpreted as a change of mind? Did he realise that blood sacrifice was a bad idea?

Finally, he's supposed to know the future, right? And yet he chooses to go through with events he already knows the outcome of. I find that odd. It reminds me of a child watching his/her favorite cartoon. They've seen it a hundred times, and yet they're just as thrilled to watch it again, because they like repetition and predictability. It's comforting. That, combined with the megalomania and the change of heart regarding blood sacrifice, draws a picture of a less than perfect deity. Almost childlike.

I also think that most people today, who believe in god, believes in a non-biblical version, because they consider him to be too malevolent and wacky.

Certainly agree. It basically reads like this:

"I am God, I am omnipotent, omniscient and eternal. I have no beginning or end. I am the Creator of everything, I own everything and I control everything. Time means nothing to me - but I got to the point where I just wanted to make something. So I made humanity. I'm not really sure why - in a way, I wanted to love them. And in another, I require them to love me back otherwise I reject them. In fact, I don't just want their love. I want their absolute and unquestionable loyalty and faith. They have to believe in me. Not believing in me means that they've chosen eternal suffering and destruction but I call this 'free will'. There's really only two choices when it comes to free will though. Me or death.

I made the humans and everything to be perfect - but giving them choices revealed that they were sinful all along. And I believe every single one of them would have done the same, therefore they're all inherently sinful from birth. They won't be forgiven unless they seek it from me. I used to require the deaths of animals and the scent of burning flesh in order to forgive people but decided that I'd send my son in human form instead and he'd become the final sacrifice. It's because I love the world. I've destroyed it before but I really love it now and I promised not to do it again. I want everybody to join me in eternity.

But everybody gets to choose what they want because... well... that's just the way I designed it and want it to be. I made you but I'll give you a choice if you want awesome, perfect eternal life or if you're going to waste your time on Earth to just enjoy yourself which will bring about death and suffering. You only get one chance to choose. I'm pretty elusive these days so you're going to need to trust in a book that's centuries old and your personal experience to find out about me. I really like to be worshipped, adored, revered, feared and respected. After all, I'm God and I'm the only God. I'm really jealous - but that's not a bad trait because I'm God and I'm allowed to be whatever I want to be. I get to define what is good and bad, and everything I am is only good, so my jealousy is righteous, holy jealousy but your jealousy is a sin. I'm also allowed to kill people but you're not.

I really don't have a reason for any of this at all. You don't get to choose whether you exist or not. I'm just going to create you whether you like it or not - but you HAVE to choose whether you believe in me or not because that's going to decide your eternal fate. Again, there's only two choices. You're more than welcome to just enjoy your time on Earth and do as you please - that's my 'free will' clause! But you'll go to Hell if you do. The only way you're going to earn yourself a ticket to eternal life is to believe in me, to accept me as your Lord and Saviour - and to follow me. Live like the book says I did. Act the way the book tells you to. Talk to me a lot. Follow my rules. Tell other people about me. Actually, make sure everyone hears about me so we can end all of this sooner. I'll come back and end it all once everyone knows about me.

And then I'll make a New Heaven and a New Earth where everything's finally perfect. For reals this time. And you guys will get to enjoy it because you passed Earth 1 and decided to believe in me."

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Habitat
2 hours ago, jypsijemini said:

Certainly agree. It basically reads like this:

"I am God, I am omnipotent, omniscient and eternal. I have no beginning or end. I am the Creator of everything, I own everything and I control everything. Time means nothing to me - but I got to the point where I just wanted to make something. So I made humanity. I'm not really sure why - in a way, I wanted to love them. And in another, I require them to love me back otherwise I reject them. In fact, I don't just want their love. I want their absolute and unquestionable loyalty and faith. They have to believe in me. Not believing in me means that they've chosen eternal suffering and destruction but I call this 'free will'. There's really only two choices when it comes to free will though. Me or death.

I made the humans and everything to be perfect - but giving them choices revealed that they were sinful all along. And I believe every single one of them would have done the same, therefore they're all inherently sinful from birth. They won't be forgiven unless they seek it from me. I used to require the deaths of animals and the scent of burning flesh in order to forgive people but decided that I'd send my son in human form instead and he'd become the final sacrifice. It's because I love the world. I've destroyed it before but I really love it now and I promised not to do it again. I want everybody to join me in eternity.

But everybody gets to choose what they want because... well... that's just the way I designed it and want it to be. I made you but I'll give you a choice if you want awesome, perfect eternal life or if you're going to waste your time on Earth to just enjoy yourself which will bring about death and suffering. You only get one chance to choose. I'm pretty elusive these days so you're going to need to trust in a book that's centuries old and your personal experience to find out about me. I really like to be worshipped, adored, revered, feared and respected. After all, I'm God and I'm the only God. I'm really jealous - but that's not a bad trait because I'm God and I'm allowed to be whatever I want to be. I get to define what is good and bad, and everything I am is only good, so my jealousy is righteous, holy jealousy but your jealousy is a sin. I'm also allowed to kill people but you're not.

I really don't have a reason for any of this at all. You don't get to choose whether you exist or not. I'm just going to create you whether you like it or not - but you HAVE to choose whether you believe in me or not because that's going to decide your eternal fate. Again, there's only two choices. You're more than welcome to just enjoy your time on Earth and do as you please - that's my 'free will' clause! But you'll go to Hell if you do. The only way you're going to earn yourself a ticket to eternal life is to believe in me, to accept me as your Lord and Saviour - and to follow me. Live like the book says I did. Act the way the book tells you to. Talk to me a lot. Follow my rules. Tell other people about me. Actually, make sure everyone hears about me so we can end all of this sooner. I'll come back and end it all once everyone knows about me.

And then I'll make a New Heaven and a New Earth where everything's finally perfect. For reals this time. And you guys will get to enjoy it because you passed Earth 1 and decided to believe in me."

That just reads as a long-winded attempt to "cure" yourself of religious sentiment, by pointing out the absurdities inherent in the OT. I think you need to extend your enquiries further than that old tome.

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jypsijemini
15 minutes ago, Habitat said:

That just reads as a long-winded attempt to "cure" yourself of religious sentiment, by pointing out the absurdities inherent in the OT. I think you need to extend your enquiries further than that old tome.

Who wrote most of the NT?

Paul.

And how much interaction did Paul have with the original followers of Jesus?

Feck-all.

How much did he learn from them and study under them?

Nada.

He claims once the spirit-scales fell from his eyes, he was filled with the holy Casper and inspired by Christ to do, say and write all that he did. He paints himself as a dedicated suffering martyr, a convert and a chaste, obedient follower of the Lord. For good measure. He'd previously been sentencing Christians to their deaths so he really had to do a Doreen Virtue and convince everybody that he was legitimate.

There's a lot to consider when referring to the NT and Paul.

I loved this doco. Paints a pretty realistic picture about the early church and Paul's influence over early Christianity and the Bible we use today.

 

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Habitat
3 minutes ago, jypsijemini said:

Who wrote most of the NT?

Paul.

And how much interaction did Paul have with the original followers of Jesus?

Feck-all.

How much did he learn from them and study under them?

Nada.

He claims once the spirit-scales fell from his eyes, he was filled with the holy Casper and inspired by Christ to do, say and write all that he did. He paints himself as a dedicated suffering martyr, a convert and a chaste, obedient follower of the Lord. For good measure. He'd previously been sentencing Christians to their deaths so he really had to do a Doreen Virtue and convince everybody that he was legitimate.

There's a lot to consider when referring to the NT and Paul.

I loved this doco. Paints a pretty realistic picture about the early church and Paul's influence over early Christianity and the Bible we use today.

 

You also need to extend your enquiries beyond the NT and its adherents. But I sense your agenda is just to be rid of whatever residual hold a religious upbringing has on you.  I think it is pretty simple, only dally with that which attracts you, or accords with your intuitions, the idea of striking off a long list of things you feel are "wrong" is just unnecessary hard work.

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joc
19 minutes ago, Habitat said:

You also need to extend your enquiries beyond the NT and its adherents. But I sense your agenda is just to be rid of whatever residual hold a religious upbringing has on you.  I think it is pretty simple, only dally with that which attracts you, or accords with your intuitions, the idea of striking off a long list of things you feel are "wrong" is just unnecessary hard work.

It is so much easier to just understand that none of it is true and move on.   Why study something that is to begin with...untrue?

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Guyver
On 12/8/2019 at 2:01 AM, Will Due said:

 

The kingdom of God is within everyone.

Which is why, when you seek, you shall find.

 

 

You will find that you still have no answers.

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Manwon Lender
24 minutes ago, Habitat said:

You also need to extend your enquiries beyond the NT and its adherents. But I sense your agenda is just to be rid of whatever residual hold a religious upbringing has on you.  I think it is pretty simple, only dally with that which attracts you, or accords with your intuitions, the idea of striking off a long list of things you feel are "wrong" is just unnecessary hard work.

You know as far back as I can remember I could never believe in any omnipotent deity that knows all, sees all, and created all. It is just beyond my capacity to except such things. Now, I don't hate on anyone who choices to believe in these things, it's their life and it their choice, like John Lennon said whatever gets you through the night, it's alright, it's alright.

i have been attacked and laughed at for my belief in Buddhism, Karma and reincarnation on this forum.:D  Simply because  my belief doesn't require an omnipotent deity.  Buddha was nothing more than a man who went on a quest to find an enlightened way to live. This I can get behind and totally believe in because there are  no Supernatural occurrences and like Buddha everyone dies in the end, the only difference is Buddhists are reincarnationed. 

Peace

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Manwon Lender

“You can search throughout the entire universe for someone who is more deserving of your love and affection than you are yourself, and that person is not to be found anywhere. You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.” – Buddha

Generosity brings happiness at every stage of its expression. We experience joy in forming the intention to be generous. We experience joy in the actual act of giving something. And we experience joy in remembering the fact that we have given.” – Buddha

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Habitat
1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

This I can get behind and totally believe in because there are  no Supernatural occurrences and like Buddha everyone dies in the end, the only difference is Buddhists are reincarnationed. 

Reincarnation isn't "supernatural" ?

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Manwon Lender
10 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Reincarnation isn't "supernatural" ?

No it isn't, according to Buddhist teaching. Here is an explanation of reincarnation, by the Buddha himself.

The Buddha said, “Oh, Bhikshu, every moment you are born, decay, and die.” He meant that in every moment, the illusion of "me" renews itself. Not only is nothing carried over from one life to the next; nothing is carried over from one momentto the next. This is not to say that "we" do not exist--but that there is no permanent, unchanging "me," but rather that we are redefined in every moment by shifting impermanent conditions. Suffering and dissatisfaction occur when we cling to desire for an unchanging and permanent self that is impossible and illusory. And release from that sufferi.

peace

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Habitat
18 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

nothing is carried over from one momentto the next.

That seems like nonsense, whichever way you look at it. 

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Manwon Lender
6 minutes ago, Habitat said:

That seems like nonsense, whichever way you look at it. 

Ok I would expect no less from you!

What sounds like nonsense to me is an immaculate conception, do you understand what that means?

peace

 

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Habitat
12 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Ok I would expect no less from you!

What sounds like nonsense to me is an immaculate conception, do you understand what that means?

peace

 

Well, I never said I was accepting of an "immaculate" conception, in fact I take the view that the Jesus story only works if he is a human being, not some demi-God.

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Debra F. II
5 hours ago, jypsijemini said:

Certainly agree. It basically reads like this:

"I am God, I am omnipotent, omniscient and eternal. I have no beginning or end. I am the Creator of everything, I own everything and I control everything. Time means nothing to me - but I got to the point where I just wanted to make something. So I made humanity. I'm not really sure why - in a way, I wanted to love them. And in another, I require them to love me back otherwise I reject them. In fact, I don't just want their love. I want their absolute and unquestionable loyalty and faith. They have to believe in me. Not believing in me means that they've chosen eternal suffering and destruction but I call this 'free will'. There's really only two choices when it comes to free will though. Me or death.

I made the humans and everything to be perfect - but giving them choices revealed that they were sinful all along. And I believe every single one of them would have done the same, therefore they're all inherently sinful from birth. They won't be forgiven unless they seek it from me. I used to require the deaths of animals and the scent of burning flesh in order to forgive people but decided that I'd send my son in human form instead and he'd become the final sacrifice. It's because I love the world. I've destroyed it before but I really love it now and I promised not to do it again. I want everybody to join me in eternity.

But everybody gets to choose what they want because... well... that's just the way I designed it and want it to be. I made you but I'll give you a choice if you want awesome, perfect eternal life or if you're going to waste your time on Earth to just enjoy yourself which will bring about death and suffering. You only get one chance to choose. I'm pretty elusive these days so you're going to need to trust in a book that's centuries old and your personal experience to find out about me. I really like to be worshipped, adored, revered, feared and respected. After all, I'm God and I'm the only God. I'm really jealous - but that's not a bad trait because I'm God and I'm allowed to be whatever I want to be. I get to define what is good and bad, and everything I am is only good, so my jealousy is righteous, holy jealousy but your jealousy is a sin. I'm also allowed to kill people but you're not.

I really don't have a reason for any of this at all. You don't get to choose whether you exist or not. I'm just going to create you whether you like it or not - but you HAVE to choose whether you believe in me or not because that's going to decide your eternal fate. Again, there's only two choices. You're more than welcome to just enjoy your time on Earth and do as you please - that's my 'free will' clause! But you'll go to Hell if you do. The only way you're going to earn yourself a ticket to eternal life is to believe in me, to accept me as your Lord and Saviour - and to follow me. Live like the book says I did. Act the way the book tells you to. Talk to me a lot. Follow my rules. Tell other people about me. Actually, make sure everyone hears about me so we can end all of this sooner. I'll come back and end it all once everyone knows about me.

And then I'll make a New Heaven and a New Earth where everything's finally perfect. For reals this time. And you guys will get to enjoy it because you passed Earth 1 and decided to believe in me."

I value your expression here.

Again sacrificing is death and rebirth, in a sense no different then when leaves die on a tree in the fall and winter then bud and bloom in the spring and summer. The only difference is, is that there is no blood or death from a body of flesh.

I understand you have no need for any of this and I respect your decision.

The person who started the topic I took as wanting a deeper look and no matter what anyone's answers are here, I dont feel anyone one is right or wrong, we're all on our own individual journey to the same place at the very end anyway, which is death...

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Alchopwn

Three Religions?  Srsly?  There are over 20,000 Christian sects in the USA alone, and many of them aren't really recognizably Christian.

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Will Due
12 hours ago, Guyver said:

You will find that you still have no answers.

 

The reason why you haven't found, is because you've stopped seeking.

Only you know what you're really doing. And God.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Alchopwn
1 hour ago, Will Due said:

The reason why you haven't found, is because you've stopped seeking.  Only you know what you're really doing. And God.

No, that's confirmation bias.  You search and search, and then you decide something circumstantial is what you were looking for all along.  It's self-deception and shows a certain personal immaturity and dishonesty. And FFS why?  Do you plan to convert your self deception into an income stream via conning people?

Edited by Alchopwn
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Will Due
25 minutes ago, Alchopwn said:

No, that's confirmation bias.  

 

Are you working to influence those who are honestly seeking to give it up?

 

 

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Alchopwn
17 hours ago, Will Due said:

Are you working to influence those who are honestly seeking to give it up?

An interesting choice of words.  It seems like you are treating religion as a form of addiction, rather than an idea that you can choose to discard.  Your words not mine.

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