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Waspie_Dwarf

Curious Martian Cloud

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Waspie_Dwarf

Mars Express keeps an eye on curious cloud

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Since 13 September, ESA’s Mars Express has been observing the evolution of an elongated cloud formation hovering in the vicinity of the 20 km-high Arsia Mons volcano, close to the planet’s equator.

In spite of its location, this atmospheric feature is not linked to volcanic activity but is rather a water ice cloud driven by the influence of the volcano’s leeward slope on the air flow – something that scientists call an orographic or lee cloud – and a regular phenomenon in this region.

arrow3.gif  Read More: ESA

 

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Seti42

Stop using science to explain things! The cloud is clearly caused by aliens, magic, gods, the one TRUE God, or that migrant caravan heading towards the US/Mexico boarder.

Edited by Seti42
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L.A.T.1961

Beagle 3.  :rolleyes: 

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It's Just An Opinion

#1 Seti42, i do think this was formed naturally and that ~That scientific explanation is totally valid however your mockery isn't.

The scientific, believe that: [there is no supernatural and that the explanation just hasn't been discovered yet.]

The religious, believe that: [you cant prove god.]

Do you see how they both rely on blind faith? All to keep their realities from shattering.

Allegory: The Coin of Denial, refusing to see the other side no matter how much it spins it's dumbfounded by what they cant explain. All because either side shuts off their mind from any contemplation of the other.

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[The Scientific see something that defies their every explanation. Instead of even considering the supernatural. They simply label it as a coincidence throw it over their heads with blind faith that there is a scientific explanation but they just haven't found it yet.]

[The Religious see some miracle, but the moment they begin to get a scientific explanation they leave the topic and tell themselves that even if there is a scientific explanation that too was made by their god. They just don't know how their god did it yet.]

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This is the two sided coin of denial. either face shuts off their minds the moment they hear anything hinting at contemplating the other side of the coin. Do to fear that it may shatter the foundation of the reality they believe.

To deny something without consideration is just as ignorant as to believe something without contemplation.

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It's like they have a box they call ''Reality'' and everything they are willing to consider exists they put inside.

Afterwords they themselves get inside the box and go into absolute denial of everything outside of their foundation of reality that they are wiling to contemplate.

Then they shut the box to feel safe because they are terrified of what they cant control or explain.

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If people keeping going for what they think is possible they will never achieve, accomplish, or discoverer something new.

why not contemplate things with an open mind; everything we have was once thought to be impossible.

Once again like I said before, I do believe the scientific explanation provided for this, but there is no need to be so dense and one-sided with your outlook; You only limit your own perception by doing that.

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DirtyDocMartens

Um, I kinda think Seti42 was joking.

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It's Just An Opinion

#4 DirtyDocMartens, It's obvious that he was being sarcastic but I got the feeling that he seemed to believe that through science; man can eventually explain everything, and that if it points to anything otherwise. ~That just means that it's a coincidence and that the scientific explanation hasn't been found yet.

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Black Red Devil
7 hours ago, It's Just An Opinion said:

#4 DirtyDocMartens, It's obvious that he was being sarcastic but I got the feeling that he seemed to believe that through science; man can eventually explain everything, and that if it points to anything otherwise. ~That just means that it's a coincidence and that the scientific explanation hasn't been found yet.

Well, yeah....:blink: What's the current alternative, sacrifice a goat and drink it's blood hoping the Gods will look favorably upon us?

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It's Just An Opinion

#4 DirtyDocMartens

#6 Black Red Devil

you both seemed to be ignoring my point. I never said the scientific method wasn't good. in fact i too proffer it. But like I said you are both ignoring my point: so ill clarify it. bellow. 

If you had the technology to make an AI intelligent enough to be sentient. The moment it accepted itself as an existence it would deny you from being real.
And from its perspective, it wouldn't be wrong.
but this isn't a literal theory, more like a figurative allegory, because technology itself could never reach that point.

Speaking of technology: A ruler can't measure something larger than itself, but it takes sentience to be stupid enough to deny the existence beyond your capabilities total length of measurement.

We will never know everything, or create some sort of search engine that has the answer to every question. Nor will we ever create some tool that is able to measure everything and determine if its real or fake.

Yet knowing that as common sense, we still stubbornly think that if we cant prove something with our knowledge and our instruments, if we cant replicate it, that it must not be real.

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Don't get me wrong i'm not on the religious side of the coin nor on the scientific side. That's why I coined ''The Coin of Denial'' which is explained bellow.

[The Religious see some miracle, but the moment they begin to get a scientific explanation they leave the topic and tell themselves that even if there is a scientific explanation that too was made by their god. They just don't know how their god did it yet.]

[The Scientific see something that defies their every explanation. Instead of even considering the supernatural. They simply label it as a coincidence throw it over their heads with blind faith that there is a scientific explanation but they just haven't proved it yet.]

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see my point was that you will never answer every question, and i'm not referring about proving the divine or anything liek that im speaking in general. That's common sense. and it's stupid to think that through one perspective a selective group of instruments and methods that they could eventually prove it all. 

To believe that everything has a scientific explanation, but you just haven't found it yet is equal to believing in a god that just hasn't been disproven yet. its like saying ''Oh you cant disprove my god did this yet so that means he has'' but with science. ''oh we cant explain how this was done, but rest assured that we are intelligent enough to answer and explain every question so we will scientifically prove this eventually until then rest assured that its a coincidence but does have a scientific explanation'' 

I think you are ignoring my point because you skipped from reading what i wrote in that first comment paragraph and red only what was in my small second comment, assumingly that it was the sum of it all.  So i'll restate my point bellow: 

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[The Scientific see something that defies their every explanation. Instead of even considering the supernatural. They simply label it as a coincidence throw it over their heads with blind faith that there is a scientific explanation but they just haven't found it yet.]

[The Religious see some miracle, but the moment they begin to get a scientific explanation they leave the topic and tell themselves that even if there is a scientific explanation that too was made by their god. They just don't know how their god did it yet.]

Speaking of technology: A ruler can't measure something larger than itself, but it takes sentience to be stupid enough to deny the existence beyond your capabilities total length of measurement. 

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Despite not being able to answer every question I'm not implying that the scientific method is vain not one bit, it's the most effective, but like i said before. one day or another you'd stumble across something that might've been supernatural. but you'd never accept that, you'd just spend every day until the end of time trying to disprove it from being so. My point is that even if you had something lets say like the clouds spelling out ''the gods are real'' you'd claim it to be a coincidence, at first because you can't explain it. Then if that happened over and over again on the exact same date and time every year. you would never accept what it says you would simply spend eternity trying to prove what it says isn't true through the scientific method. Until eventually it became a thing of the past and got buried away as a ''hoax'' by the present. so you see my point: The scientific method is not vain however you will never explain or prove everything. That doesn't means the method taken now is wrong, what it means is that as a species it's naive to think that through the scientific perspective alone we'll be able to explain everything. 

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 I said that the scientific method will never prove or explain everything: knowing this as common sense, its dumb to think that because we haven't proven something that it cannot be true despite recurring evidence. Sometimes when your instruments fall short of measuring something you didn't want to accept to begin with you claim it as a coincidence despite being recurring. Not because you'd lack evidence but because you stubbornly stuck to one perspective and refused to accept what the evidence before you proved. 

I never said the scientific method is bad or that you should sacrifice a goat over the scientific method.(yes I know you were being sarcastic) What I'm saying is that, as a species it's dumb to think that we are intelligent enough to explain or prove it all. 

 

Edited by It's Just An Opinion

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It's Just An Opinion

I'm sorry f it seems like i'm turning this into a heated debate. that's not what i'm trying to do. I just want you to not completely shut things out of consideration because it goes against the most popular conformative opinion of what to accept.

Keep a broader perspective even if the majority will consider it irrational of even contemplating it.

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Waspie_Dwarf

It's Just An Opinion, please don't hijack the thread, stay on topic.

Thank you.

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It's Just An Opinion

DirtyDocMartens If you had red what I said I would not have had to explain the obvious point that I made, I get the feeling you are all simply not reading everything I said because you are all too insecure of having your opinions changed or challenged.

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#9 Waspie_Dwarf, I've been on topic, but to reply to someone elses comment I had to make a point to explain why I formed that opinion on their comment. If there is a rule against replying to other comments or stating your opinion about someone else comment please feel free to refer to it now.

You are also dodging my point, while implying that I have no freedom of speech to reply to someone else's comment.

I said: ''I do think this was formed naturally and that ~That scientific explanation is totally valid however your mockery isn't.'' (afterwords I then explained why I got the opinion about their tone) just because I used a significant amount of writing doesn't mean I'm straying off topic. It just means I'm thorough with my explanation. 

Edited by It's Just An Opinion

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spud the mackem

Do the scientists know that it is "water ice" , or are they just assuming this, as the Mars atmosphere is thinner than ours I suggest it may be something else , 20000 k is very high and ice crystals are heavier than Mars "air", so would fall to the ground as they do on Earth, or maybe I'm wrong and Martian "air" can support ice.

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It's Just An Opinion

I just want DirtyDocMartens to acknowledge that even if something so happened to be the blame of for say, gods, magic ect. That he would never accept it as that. because he has limited his perception on what hes willing to contemplate (the conformative opinion) and anything else wouldn't be given a second thought for being conformativly irrational because modern science can't prove it. 

I want you all to acknowledge that ~That is dense.

He would continue to claim it is a coincidence even if it were recurring, and he would spend his life trying to explain it scientifically until he eventually forgot about it and threw it over his head.

I want you all to acknowledge and see how narrow minded thinking that is.

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Not A Rockstar
1 hour ago, spud the mackem said:

Do the scientists know that it is "water ice" , or are they just assuming this, as the Mars atmosphere is thinner than ours I suggest it may be something else , 20000 k is very high and ice crystals are heavier than Mars "air", so would fall to the ground as they do on Earth, or maybe I'm wrong and Martian "air" can support ice.

I was wondering something like this, myself. I was thinking, hey I wonder if there was more moisture there on Mars if that would get heavy enough to snow. Or rain? 

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South Alabam

That's a whole lot of jabbering for an explained cloud formation.

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rashore
On 10/26/2018 at 9:00 PM, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Mars Express keeps an eye on curious cloud

 

That's neat, I didn't now Mars had clouds like that.

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keithisco
On 02/11/2018 at 11:37 PM, It's Just An Opinion said:

I just want DirtyDocMartens to acknowledge that even if something so happened to be the blame of for say, gods, magic ect. That he would never accept it as that. because he has limited his perception on what hes willing to contemplate (the conformative opinion) and anything else wouldn't be given a second thought for being conformativly irrational because modern science can't prove it. 

I want you all to acknowledge that ~That is dense.

He would continue to claim it is a coincidence even if it were recurring, and he would spend his life trying to explain it scientifically until he eventually forgot about it and threw it over his head.

I want you all to acknowledge and see how narrow minded thinking that is.

As an affirmed atheist I have to say that I understand fully what you are saying and do not reject any points that you make. Science itself is often hidebound by a "religious fervour" almost insomuch as established theories cannot be challenged for fear of mockery. Counter-intuitively "Law of Physics" is almost unchallenged because "we" only have evidence that supports it and does not refute it. What is lacking in this thinking is the assumption that such Laws are immutable - which can be proven when all things end and that Law has held to be true and not before.

We are as children on the stage of the Universe, and a little scientific humility is called for. IMO

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Waspie_Dwarf

A reminder that this site has rules, including this one:

Quote
  • 3j. Thread derailment: Do not derail or 'hijack' threads with posts that are either off-topic or designed to draw attention away from what is being discussed.

This topic is about clouds on Mars, please remain on topic. 

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keithisco
On 08/11/2018 at 8:55 PM, Waspie_Dwarf said:

A reminder that this site has rules, including this one:

This topic is about clouds on Mars, please remain on topic. 

This topic is about a cloud on Mars...that there might be alternative theories about its genesis should be at the heart of all Scientific Endeavour...anything else is simply permitting confirmation bias to close off alternative explanations. 

To the point, orographic clouds are common in an earth environment, not so on Mars so what are the differing set of environmental factors in play to produce something that has a corollary on Earth? Clearly a differing mechanism must be at play here' so what is it?

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