Xeno the alien

[+joc]

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

XenoQc's experience, while perceived individually through his own mind is actually reasonably common.

It can come in different forms and ways, but basically it involves connection to the comic consciousness This has certain constant effects but also may affect individuals differently It my also depend what background experiences and knowledge the person has before the event occurs.  For example xenoQc felt that his mind was abducted or hijacked.

i found my own mind reaching out, melding with, and connecting to the cosmic consciousness voluntarily and with my understanding and consent 

However many of the feelings and much of knowledge/understanding shared in that expernce were similar, and reading shows they often are 

It is a lot more accepted in eastern cultures than western ones.

Humans can connect to whole family of self aware beings through the channel/network  of the cosmic consciousness, just as you and i can communicate across the world on the internet  

Then I guess he is right...he...and apparently you...are part of a 'cosmic family'.  Which is pretty much the same thing as saying; There are a lot of other people in the world who are delusional in their beliefs.

btw...welcome back...feel better!

[Mr Walker]

11 hours ago, joc said:

Then I guess he is right...he...and apparently you...are part of a 'cosmic family'.  Which is pretty much the same thing as saying; There are a lot of other people in the world who are delusional in their beliefs.

btw...welcome back...feel better!

Thank you.

Of course it begs the question.

"Which segment of the human race is delusional?  Those who have experienced contact with the cosmic consciousness or those who have not  

t has become a bit trendy and new age now but it was first coined in the early 1900s in a 1901 book by Richard Bucke, where he described both his own earlier experiences and those of other  people he had researched or spoken with. My own first contact came around 1960  and i had no name for it so i called it the universal, or cosmic, consciousness  not realising it had already been named that by Bucke 

 

Cosmic consciousness experience[edit]

In 1872, while in London, Bucke had the most important experience of his life — a fleeting mystical experience that he said consisted of a few moments of cosmic consciousness. He later described the characteristics and effects of the faculty of experiencing this type of consciousness as:

• its sudden appearance
• a subjective experience of light ("inner light")
• moral elevation
• intellectual illumination
• a sense of immortality
• loss of a fear of death
• loss of a sense of sin

Bucke's personal experience of the inner state had yet another attribute, mentioned separately by the author: the vivid sense of the universe as a living presence, rather than as basically lifeless, inert matter.^[8]

The supreme occurrence of that night was his real and sole initiation to the new and higher order of ideas. But it was only an initiation. He saw the light but had no more idea whence it came and what it meant than had the first creature that saw the light of the sun.^[9]

Bucke did not immediately record the details and interpretation of his experience. This was not done until years later, and only after he had researched much of the world's literature on mysticism and enlightenment and had corresponded with many others about this subject.

 

Bucke borrowed the term "cosmic consciousness" from Edward Carpenter, who had traveled and studied religion in the East. Bucke's friend,^[2] Carpenter, had derived the term "cosmic consciousness" from the Eastern term "universal consciousness." In his description of his personal experience, Bucke combined his recollection with thoughts of another of his friends, Caleb Pink ("C.P.")^[11]—and others—and recorded his experience in a poetic style.

Cosmic Consciousness was a book which he researched and wrote over a period of many years. It was published in 1901 and has been reprinted several times since then. In it, Bucke describes his own experience, the experiences of contemporaries (most notably Walt Whitman), and the experiences of historical figures, including Jesus, Saint Paul, Muhammad, Plotinus, Dante, Francis Bacon, William Blake, Buddha, and Ramakrishna.

Bucke developed a theory that posited three stages in the development of consciousness:

• the simple consciousness of animals
• the self-consciousness of the mass of humanity (encompassing reason, imagination, and foresight)
• cosmic consciousness — an emerging faculty which is the next stage of human development
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Maurice_Bucke

Most people in the materialist west are probably as sceptical as yourself, but in eastern cultures this has been known, understood, and accepted as a real experience,  for centuries. 

 

 

[moonman]

That's all well and good, but it's a far cry from claiming that you met aliens on the internet that claimed to be your parents.

Edited November 4, 2018 by moonman

[+joc]

46 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

It has become a bit trendy and new age now but it was first coined in the early 1900s in a 1901 book by Richard Bucke, where he described both his own earlier experiences and those of other  people he had researched or spoken with. My own first contact came around 1960  and i had no name for it so i called it the universal, or cosmic, consciousness  not realising it had already been named that by Bucke 

I get it now.  Personal experience, researching other personal experiences, absent of any factual information.  Give it a name...write a book about it and ...wallah...the Woo of Cosmic Consciousness gives credence to the delusional.  We also call it...the blind leading the blind.

 

[Mr Walker]

49 minutes ago, joc said:

I get it now.  Personal experience, researching other personal experiences, absent of any factual information.  Give it a name...write a book about it and ...wallah...the Woo of Cosmic Consciousness gives credence to the delusional.  We also call it...the blind leading the blind.

 

Those who can not see are the blind.

All a person can know, and rely upon, comes via their own personal experience.

Thus, if you have no experiences with something, you cannot know it, and you must either believe or disbelieve in it. on faith.

But, once you have your own experience, you will have  your own knowledge.  (this is true of every human experience) 

It is neither wise, nor logical, to dismiss the experiences of others, just because you have not had a similar experience yourself. 

There is no such thing as absolute, independent,  factual knowledge.

We are forced to take all "book" knowledge on faith, unless we have personal experience of it 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Mr Walker

[moonman]

We do know, however, that mental illness is a very real thing.

[Mr Walker]

6 minutes ago, moonman said:

We do know, however, that mental illness is a very real thing.

Of course , but to relegate all unusual experiences to the realm of "mental illness" is both false/incorrect and a lazy way to dismiss them.

ie while such experiences may be the result of many things, including a mental illness, often the \y are not  They are/can be physical individual experiences of mind and body experienced by totally sane  intelligent,  non drug taking, and non sleep deprived individuals.  Ie they come from a real external source which is independent of our own mind and body, and our mind only interprets and  contextualises what that encounter is.   

You can hallucinate a person sitting in a chair in your room but there will also be occasions when a real person is sitting in that chair talking to you . You cant dismiss the reality of the real person just because you have had hallucinations very similar. 

 

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

All a person can know, and rely upon, comes via their own personal experience.

Not true Mr. Walker.  Unless you consider the accumulation of knowledge based on research of facts...personal experience.  

 

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

But, once you have your own experience, you will have  your own knowledge.  (this is true of every human experience) 

Ah yes...I have had some personal experiences Mr. Walker...I know of what you speak.  It was November of 1995...I went on a canoe trip by myself, never a good idea even for one experienced with canoes.  Having never been in a canoe before, and with wind advisories in effect, I embarked on an 11 mile canoe adventure through the wilds of Arkansas down the Buffalo River. Long story short...at one point I found myself stuck on a rock...the river a little less than two meters deep.  On my left were trees...on my right was a granite wall.  I pushed off of the granite wall with my oar...my only oar...and instead of the canoe leaving the rock, my canoe went into the river...and was going around the bend...where rapids would have taken it forever away.  I surmised the peril instantly and jumped out of the canoe.  the water was ice cold and just below my neck.  I went for the oar and grabbed it before it went around the bend....barely...and literally by my thumb and index finger.  I would go on with my adventure but that story is better suited for a blog.

The point is Mr. Walker...I had my own experience of canoeing and it ended well with me and my canoe arriving safely back at my campsite as the sun was going down.  Experiences that I could never have even imagined...

At one point...I looked up and saw a Bald Eagle soaring overhead....me, the wilderness, and a Bald Eagle...but I could only note that it was a Bald Eagle for about 2 seconds, literally.  That was all the river at that point would allow one to loose focus on it.

Like I said...experiences I could have never imagined...

...but the thing is....they were real experiences...they were physical, provable, experiences.  I don't know if you believe me or not but they were actual personal experiences.  

Did I actually experience any of that?  Oh yes...and much, much more!  But I'm not writing a blog here so I am finished with describing my experience.  Except to say it was the stupidest thing I have ever done in my life...and the most exhilarating!

 

The big point here Mr. Walker is that I actually experienced that...and not one person has ever questioned the reality of my experience.  Not because they trust me...but because it was an incredible experience that was incredibly believable....and did I mention, provable?  Oh yeah, I did.  

So...I do indeed have my own personal experience and my own personal knowledge of that experience.  

But regardless of what you tell me...I know, intuitively and factually that you Mr. Walker never encountered an Alien God.  In your mind you did...but in reality you did not.  That my friend is the difference.

[Mr Walker]

18 minutes ago, joc said:

Not true Mr. Walker.  Unless you consider the accumulation of knowledge based on research of facts...personal experience.  

 

Ah yes...I have had some personal experiences Mr. Walker...I know of what you speak.  It was November of 1995...I went on a canoe trip by myself, never a good idea even for one experienced with canoes.  Having never been in a canoe before, and with wind advisories in effect, I embarked on an 11 mile canoe adventure through the wilds of Arkansas down the Buffalo River. Long story short...at one point I found myself stuck on a rock...the river a little less than two meters deep.  On my left were trees...on my right was a granite wall.  I pushed off of the granite wall with my oar...my only oar...and instead of the canoe leaving the rock, my canoe went into the river...and was going around the bend...where rapids would have taken it forever away.  I surmised the peril instantly and jumped out of the canoe.  the water was ice cold and just below my neck.  I went for the oar and grabbed it before it went around the bend....barely...and literally by my thumb and index finger.  I would go on with my adventure but that story is better suited for a blog.

The point is Mr. Walker...I had my own experience of canoeing and it ended well with me and my canoe arriving safely back at my campsite as the sun was going down.  Experiences that I could never have even imagined...

At one point...I looked up and saw a Bald Eagle soaring overhead....me, the wilderness, and a Bald Eagle...but I could only note that it was a Bald Eagle for about 2 seconds, literally.  That was all the river at that point would allow one to loose focus on it.

Like I said...experiences I could have never imagined...

...but the thing is....they were real experiences...they were physical, provable, experiences.  I don't know if you believe me or not but they were actual personal experiences.  

Did I actually experience any of that?  Oh yes...and much, much more!  But I'm not writing a blog here so I am finished with describing my experience.  Except to say it was the stupidest thing I have ever done in my life...and the most exhilarating!

 

The big point here Mr. Walker is that I actually experienced that...and not one person has ever questioned the reality of my experience.  Not because they trust me...but because it was an incredible experience that was incredibly believable....and did I mention, provable?  Oh yeah, I did.  

So...I do indeed have my own personal experience and my own personal knowledge of that experience.  

But regardless of what you tell me...I know, intuitively and factually that you Mr. Walker never encountered an Alien God.  In your mind you did...but in reality you did not.  That my friend is the difference.

Why should i believe any of your story?   I have no knowledge of it and so i have to take your word for it Just as you will not take mine.  Why should i take yours as truth.?

To address your earlier point No, research of other peoples facts' cannot establish truth or reality. 

You are taking them on faith and choosing to believe in them. Now sometimes we have to do this to survive and avoid harm   eg if you are told you will be badly burned staying out in the summer sun,  it is wise to accept that advice on faith BUT you will not know if it is true or not, until you expernce it for yourself .You can be told that 2 plus 2 equals 4, but until you observe this for yourself then you are simply taking someone else's fact, on faith.

  Information gained from books, other people, media etc Is not knowledge  You can never be certain of its truth or validity until you test it, in practice, for yourself. Then, and only then. does it become knowledge  to you.

Ps how could you prove to me that the story about the canoe is true and realy happened to you?   You cannot and thus i must asses its  likely truth based on my own experiences and background It is credible and i have had similar experiences but on the ocean On the other hand, it is the sort of story you might invent just to convince me. I cannot know, and thus  cannot have knowledge of its truth    

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Why should i believe any of your story?   I have no knowledge of it and so i have to take your word for it Just as you will not take mine.  Why should i take yours as truth.?

To address your earlier point No, research of other peoples facts' cannot establish truth or reality. 

You are taking them on faith and choosing to believe in them. Now sometimes we have to do this to survive and avoid harm   eg if you are told you will be badly burned staying out in the summer sun,  it is wise to accept that advice on faith BUT you will not know if it is true or not, until you expernce it for yourself .You can be told that 2 plus 2 equals 4, but until you observe this for yourself then you are simply taking someone else's fact, on faith.

  Information gained from books, other people, media etc Is not knowledge  You can never be certain of its truth or validity until you test it, in practice, for yourself. Then, and only then. does it become knowledge  to you.

Ps how could you prove to me that the story about the canoe is true and realy happened to you?   You cannot and thus i must asses its  likely truth based on my own experiences and background It is credible and i have had similar experiences but on the ocean On the other hand, it is the sort of story you might invent just to convince me. I cannot know, and thus  cannot have knowledge of its truth    

But there are certain truths we know are true.  No experience required.  We all know the facts of the Laws of Physics.  These are the basis for deciphering truth of personal experience.  While, my adventure is true...I cannot convince you of its truth...but if I tell  you I had a canoe trip adventure why would you not believe me?  Many people have had such adventures...even yourself.  However, if I tell you I had an adventure with a Space Alien....that's a different personal experience Mr. Walker...completely subjective.  Most of us don't experience Aliens and most of us use the Laws of Physics for discerning the truth about personal experiences involving Space Aliens.  

[Habitat]

1 hour ago, joc said:

But there are certain truths we know are true.  No experience required.  We all know the facts of the Laws of Physics.  These are the basis for deciphering truth of personal experience.

By that reckoning, joc, anything that contravenes the known laws of physics can be excluded as real ? Under that regime, there would be no progress in science. You are as silly as religious fanatics with their "holy writ", but apparently can't see it. The snare of delusion strikes again.

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, joc said:

But there are certain truths we know are true.  No experience required.  We all know the facts of the Laws of Physics.  These are the basis for deciphering truth of personal experience.  While, my adventure is true...I cannot convince you of its truth...but if I tell  you I had a canoe trip adventure why would you not believe me?  Many people have had such adventures...even yourself.  However, if I tell you I had an adventure with a Space Alien....that's a different personal experience Mr. Walker...completely subjective.  Most of us don't experience Aliens and most of us use the Laws of Physics for discerning the truth about personal experiences involving Space Aliens.  

No YOU do not know the truth of the laws of physics, except for those you encounter in your life. eg you will know gravity exists. You can see a meniscus on a glass of water you can test the aerodynamic properties of wing shapes, or the effect of  resistance on electrical energy.    You can  observe and experience MANY elements of physics But those you have NOT experienced you are taking on faith from experts or books. 

Sorry but your canoe trip to me is just as subjective as an alien encounter.

  Both occurred in real objective  reality but you know your experience was real, while  I know mine was real I do NOT know that yours was real  Despite being credible it could be entirely fiction  WHY do you find one experience to be objective and the other subjective?

Only because one was YOUR experience, and so you know it to be true   I also know mine was objectively real, but i cant prove it to you, any more than you can prove to me, that  your canoe story ever really happened. 

 

Why WOULD I believe any story about anything, told to me by anyone,  Better to suspend belief and disbelief  I think your canoe story COULD have happened, but you simply do not believe my encounters could ever occur,  because you believe them to be impossible. 

[+joc]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I think your canoe story COULD have happened, but you simply do not believe my encounters could ever occur,  because you believe them to be impossible.

Exactly!

[+joc]

5 hours ago, Habitat said:

By that reckoning, joc, anything that contravenes the known laws of physics can be excluded as real ? Under that regime, there would be no progress in science. You are as silly as religious fanatics with their "holy writ", but apparently can't see it. The snare of delusion strikes again.

Could you rephrase that please into a sentence that makes sense and doesn't contradict itself.  Feel free to leave out the snide remarks when you do.

Or...just name one thing that contravenes the known laws of physics that has hindered scientific progress.  As a scientist Hab, you should know that the laws of physics are the fundamental basis for all scientific discovery.   oh wait...you aren't a scientist...I forgot...

Edited November 4, 2018 by joc

[+joc]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No YOU do not know the truth of the laws of physics, except for those you encounter in your life. eg you will know gravity exists. You can see a meniscus on a glass of water you can test the aerodynamic properties of wing shapes, or the effect of  resistance on electrical energy.    You can  observe and experience MANY elements of physics But those you have NOT experienced you are taking on faith from experts or books. 

Apparently you are confusing the laws of physics with observations.   It is knowledge of the laws of physics that enable us to test wing shapes and such. 

.

[+Sherapy]

15 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No YOU do not know the truth of the laws of physics, except for those you encounter in your life. eg you will know gravity exists. You can see a meniscus on a glass of water you can test the aerodynamic properties of wing shapes, or the effect of  resistance on electrical energy.    You can  observe and experience MANY elements of physics But those you have NOT experienced you are taking on faith from experts or books. 

Sorry but your canoe trip to me is just as subjective as an alien encounter.

  Both occurred in real objective  reality but you know your experience was real, while  I know mine was real I do NOT know that yours was real  Despite being credible it could be entirely fiction  WHY do you find one experience to be objective and the other subjective?

Only because one was YOUR experience, and so you know it to be true   I also know mine was objectively real, but i cant prove it to you, any more than you can prove to me, that  your canoe story ever really happened. 

 

Why WOULD I believe any story about anything, told to me by anyone,  Better to suspend belief and disbelief  I think your canoe story COULD have happened, but you simply do not believe my encounters could ever occur,  because you believe them to be impossible. 

Wow, look whose back. Take it easy MW, your health is everything. How are you and your wife holding up? 

For me, Joc going down the rapids in a canoe is "believable" objectively. It is reasonable to conclude based on his account  that it could have happened. I bet Joc could prove this adventure if he had too. 

Personally, I take his word for it as it is in line with what I know about reality, sure he could be making this up, but it really doesn't matter because it can happen. 

Unfortunately, an alien encounter on your or anyone's  testimony alone won't hold up as objective reality without evidence. 

All you are accomplishing by avoiding and evading the obvious question which is what evidence do you have to further your claim besides your word? 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

I am not an alien, I am not an alien, I am not an alien, I am an alien, I am not an alien. Maybe I'm an alien, I'm confused, Am I the alien or someone else? I am not the alien, I could be the alien, but if I'm an alien what kind of alien am I. Yeah, my brains playdoh now.

[Stiff]

 

[jaylemurph]

On 11/3/2018 at 6:27 PM, Mr Walker said:

Those who can not see are the blind       .

And here you were saying your philosophy didn’t consist solely of platitudes. 

—Jaylemurph 

[Mr Walker]

47 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

And here you were saying your philosophy didn’t consist solely of platitudes. 

—Jaylemurph 

Not solely. 

This was a direct response to people being blind 

My response was that those who cannot see things which exist are blind, at least to those things.

eg people who cant see colours are colour blind. Those who can not see gods, are god blind     

Many humans are blind to much of what exists around them.

The definition of a platitude is this.

 a remark or statement, especially one with a moral content, that has been used too often to be interesting or thoughtful

For me, while obvious, the statement  was useful and relevant   and thus not a platitude .

One must also be careful not to dismiss moral statements with which one disagrees, as platitudes, in order to diminish their truthfulness and weight.  

[Mr Walker]

17 hours ago, joc said:

Apparently you are confusing the laws of physics with observations.   It is knowledge of the laws of physics that enable us to test wing shapes and such. 

.

No confusion. The laws of physics exist and are written down and tabulated They are based on consistent observations and controlled experiments by many scientists.  But until you personally test each one, you do not have knowldge of it. 

Reading it or hearing it is not enough to make it knowledge You only have someone else's word that  it is true and are taking  that  word on faith because you trust the source. 

This is not to say that,  for  example, I  ever  doubted that the  speed of light or sound are what physicists claim, but  they only became knowledge for me when i conducted my own observational tests and measurements, and found the figures to be correct . 

[jmccr8]

8 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Not solely. 

This was a direct response to people being blind 

My response was that those who cannot see things which exist are blind, at least to those things.

eg people who cant see colours are colour blind. Those who can not see gods, are god blind     

Many humans are blind to much of what exists around them.

The definition of a platitude is this.

 a remark or statement, especially one with a moral content, that has been used too often to be interesting or thoughtful

For me, while obvious, the statement  was useful and relevant   and thus not a platitude .

One must also be careful not to dismiss moral statements with which one disagrees, as platitudes, in order to diminish their truthfulness and weight.  

Hi Walker

Is it truth or subjective truth? What are you using as a reference point that affirms your/the truth and do we see it as universal?

jmccr8

[Mr Walker]

6 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Wow, look whose back. Take it easy MW, your health is everything. How are you and your wife holding up? 

For me, Joc going down the rapids in a canoe is "believable" objectively. It is reasonable to conclude based on his account  that it could have happened. I bet Joc could prove this adventure if he had too. 

Personally, I take his word for it as it is in line with what I know about reality, sure he could be making this up, but it really doesn't matter because it can happen. 

Unfortunately, an alien encounter on your or anyone's  testimony alone won't hold up as objective reality without evidence. 

All you are accomplishing by avoiding and evading the obvious question which is what evidence do you have to further your claim besides your word? 

 

 

 

 

That is all true However this does not mean his story is true, and he can not prove to me that it is.

Reasonableness and commonality of experiences are not evidence of truth, You make my point. You accept his story, on faith, because it seems reasonable to you, but you cannot KNOW it t be true and he can't prove to you that it is  

What evidence does he have that it is true, beyond his word?  His story does not hold up as objective truth, without evidences, either.

Got out of hospital on Friday Having a community nurse do blood tests and check ups 3 times a week  Still very tired and weak,  (not suprisng having lost 26 kilos or about 4 stone in weight) but  eating and sleeping well, so should slowly recover.  Can only walk about 300 yards/metres

[Mr Walker]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Is it truth or subjective truth? What are you using as a reference point that affirms your/the truth and do we see it as universal?

jmccr8

It is an objective truth that we label as blind, people who cannot see.

The cosmic consciousness has objective independent physical existence. Some people can "see " it.

Some can not .

However when a human being sees or perceives any real thing, from a rock to an animal or a plant through to a god, each one interprets that reality using subjective  bias, prior knowledge, and experiences.  (you can learn how to overcome this to a large extent but, for example, even the language you  use will have built in cognitive biases and nuances of meaning, different to another language  ) 

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

It is an objective truth that we label as blind, people who cannot see.

The cosmic consciousness has objective independent physical existence. Some people can "see " it.

Some can not .

However when a human being sees or perceives any real thing, from a rock to an animal or a plant through to a god, each one interprets that reality using subjective  bias, prior knowledge, and experiences.  (you can learn how to overcome this to a large extent but, for example, even the language you  use will have built in cognitive biases and nuances of meaning, different to another language  ) 

Hi Walker

Your physical description of your alien should be very detailed and full of observation but to date what we have is that it can be seen others but shape shifts so no confirmation can be obtained. It also appears as a light that just happen to look enough like truck lights that you used it as an explanation to your parents.

I don't want you to get worked up over what I am saying. I have over 7 billion other people that I have never seen why would I be expected to pick out a god from all of them and ask you if it's the same one.  Your god would not look the same the next time you see him anyway.

jmccr8