Xeno the alien

[+joc]

On 11/6/2018 at 11:57 PM, Mr Walker said:

However when one encounters new logical rational arguments which conflict with your views you must consider and evaluate them  You do this ;logically and rationally not using your own feelings or emotions which can be biased.

Yeah, but the thing is Walker...some of us have BS meters installed in our brains and some of ya'll don't.

[Mr Walker]

7 hours ago, joc said:

Yeah, but the thing is Walker...some of us have BS meters installed in our brains and some of ya'll don't.

That has nothing to do with anything. 

You have a strong set of preexisting beliefs, and simply deny the possibility of anything that falls outside those pre existing beliefs. A lot of stuff you see as BS is just everyday reality to many humans.

I am very skeptical. i do not believe in anything much BUT i am not silly enough to simply disbelieve,  when I don't have experience or knowledge about something  Otherwise i would simply disbelieve any of the many new discoveries being found in  all aspects of science and nature

Eg the discovery which will enable women with mastectomies  to regrow their own breasts. Or the discovery of opal on mars. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Mr Walker

[+joc]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

A lot of stuff you see as BS is just everyday reality to many humans.

Everyday reality is the wind blowing....the Earth rotating...rocks falling from mountains...rain falling...

What goes on inside the heads of schizophrenic sufferers is not reality...to them it is...but in reality it is only in their heads.  just because one experiences something in their head doesn't make it real Walker.  If it did...I would be dead, because I once dreamed I fell out of a plane and hit the ground.  Actually, I hit the roof of a building and went through the roof, hit the floor, bounced up and hit the ceiling...and in my dream I was dead.  In reality, I am very much alive at this posting.

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, joc said:

Everyday reality is the wind blowing....the Earth rotating...rocks falling from mountains...rain falling...

What goes on inside the heads of schizophrenic sufferers is not reality...to them it is...but in reality it is only in their heads.  just because one experiences something in their head doesn't make it real Walker.  If it did...I would be dead, because I once dreamed I fell out of a plane and hit the ground.  Actually, I hit the roof of a building and went through the roof, hit the floor, bounced up and hit the ceiling...and in my dream I was dead.  In reality, I am very much alive at this posting.

You see, you dismiss the reality of many humans as a mental illness. That is an easy cop out, but  while mental illness CAN cause such events, many sane, ordinary, educated, sober, wide awake, humans encounter them as well.

For many, such experiences are as real, if not quite as common as the wind blowing, the sun shining, and rocks falling  from mountains.

You problem is  that you assume ALL such experiences only occur in the mind. 

They do not.

Many involve real physical entities and forces, which exist in the natural reality of our world.   

i really wonder how you would cope if you encountered a real ghost or poltergeist, let alone an angel or a god form.

How would your mind cope, when it is in such firm denial?

Some thing would have to give, possibly with serious consequences. 

Real encounters are not dreams. They a re not hallucinations.

it is like encountering a dog or a person or a strong wind or a bush fire.

  They have great power to alter you and your environment 

 

 

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

You see, you dismiss the reality of many humans as a mental illness. That is an easy cop out, but  while mental illness CAN cause such events, many sane, ordinary, educated, sober, wide awake, humans encounter them as well.

For many, such experiences are as real, if not quite as common as the wind blowing, the sun shining, and rocks falling  from mountains.

I wasn't implying that every person who has such an experience suffers from a mental malady.  The implication was that, because many are afflicted in that way, we know therefore that reality as suggested by 'personal experience' is anecdotal at best.  

 

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Many involve real physical entities and forces, which exist in the natural reality of our world.   

i really wonder how you would cope if you encountered a real ghost or poltergeist, let alone an angel or a god form.

How would your mind cope, when it is in such firm denial?

 

Because of past conversations, I know that when you use the word entity, you are using it as a synonym for Sentient Beings.

The ONLY Sentient Beings in our neck of the Galaxy are Human beings.  Real Physical Sentient Beings otherwise do not exist except in the human mind.  

I will say that many people have had strange phenomenon which they could not explain...but to rush to judgement that the phenomenon they experienced was the result of an Entity is again, anecdotal at best.  Just because one cannot explain rationally what they experienced does not mean that there is not a rational explanation.  

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Real encounters are not dreams. They a re not hallucinations.

it is like encountering a dog or a person or a strong wind or a bush fire.

  They have great power to alter you and your environment 

A real encounter would be an encounter that one could prove to be something other than anecdotal.  I can prove that thousands and thousands of Californians are, even at this posting, fleeing a Bush Fire out of control.  I also know that you yourself experienced that.  That is a real encounter.  A real Physical Entity should have some proof attached to it.  Just like aliens from outer space, there isn't any.  An example of a  real encounter with a UFO would be something documented by the news media and thousands of other people videoing a spaceship landing on the 50 yard line at the Super Bowl...and Aliens walking out and saying...Resistance is Futile, You will be assimilated.  That George and Martha say they saw a UFO and Aliens and were abducted and probed is anecdotal.  Not real.

...and...Because I do not entertain such concepts as valid...I will never experience anything like you say you have....

....it is akin to the way Voodoo works.  In order for someone to feel physical pain from a pin being stuck in a Voodoo Doll...one must first believe in Voodoo.

I don't...therefore...Voodoo has no power over me...nor do Physical Entities...because they don't exist.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by joc

[Piney]

Just slugged through 8 pages of one Hell of a troll job..........phew! 

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=43529

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

 

[Mr Walker]

9 hours ago, joc said:

I wasn't implying that every person who has such an experience suffers from a mental malady.  The implication was that, because many are afflicted in that way, we know therefore that reality as suggested by 'personal experience' is anecdotal at best.  

 

 

Because of past conversations, I know that when you use the word entity, you are using it as a synonym for Sentient Beings.

The ONLY Sentient Beings in our neck of the Galaxy are Human beings.  Real Physical Sentient Beings otherwise do not exist except in the human mind.  

I will say that many people have had strange phenomenon which they could not explain...but to rush to judgement that the phenomenon they experienced was the result of an Entity is again, anecdotal at best.  Just because one cannot explain rationally what they experienced does not mean that there is not a rational explanation.  

A real encounter would be an encounter that one could prove to be something other than anecdotal.  I can prove that thousands and thousands of Californians are, even at this posting, fleeing a Bush Fire out of control.  I also know that you yourself experienced that.  That is a real encounter.  A real Physical Entity should have some proof attached to it.  Just like aliens from outer space, there isn't any.  An example of a  real encounter with a UFO would be something documented by the news media and thousands of other people videoing a spaceship landing on the 50 yard line at the Super Bowl...and Aliens walking out and saying...Resistance is Futile, You will be assimilated.  That George and Martha say they saw a UFO and Aliens and were abducted and probed is anecdotal.  Not real.

...and...Because I do not entertain such concepts as valid...I will never experience anything like you say you have....

....it is akin to the way Voodoo works.  In order for someone to feel physical pain from a pin being stuck in a Voodoo Doll...one must first believe in Voodoo.

I don't...therefore...Voodoo has no power over me...nor do Physical Entities...because they don't exist.

 

 

The ONLY Sentient Beings in our neck of the Galaxy are Human beings.  Real Physical Sentient Beings otherwise do not exist except in the human mind.  

Who told you this?

How do you know it to be true? 

What scientific evidences do you have to make such a claim? 

A real encounter is a real encounter. It only has to happen or exist. It does NOT have to be capable of being proven to others, for it to be real 

Almost every event in your life cannot be proven to have happened, to a person who was not with you at the time,  and yet you have no problem knowing you are encountering real experiences.

 You know your breakfast is real. And so you can know anything you encounter is real (UNLESS you are quite mentally ill ) You just apply the same observations logic and evidences to the presence of an entity as you do to your breakfast  and examine the context of experience around the event  eg if you had no memory of  anyone preparing your breakfast, you might have reason to doubt if it was real . 

You used generically above

Your disbelief won't stop anything which has it's own physical existence from interacting with you or impacting on you for good or bad.  It is just a form of denial which makes you feel comfortable and safe.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Mr Walker

[+joc]

29 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

The ONLY Sentient Beings in our neck of the Galaxy are Human beings.  Real Physical Sentient Beings otherwise do not exist except in the human mind.  

Who told you this?

How do you know it to be true? 

What scientific evidences do you have to make such a claim? 

A real encounter is a real encounter. It only has to happen or exist. It does NOT have to be capable of being proven to others, for it to be real 

Almost every event in your life cannot be proven to have happened, to a person who was not with you at the time,  and yet you have no problem knowing you are encountering real experiences.

 You know your breakfast is real. And so you can know anything you encounter is real (UNLESS you are quite mentally ill ) You just apply the same observations logic and evidences to the presence of an entity as you do to your breakfast  and examine the context of experience around the event  eg if you had no memory of  anyone preparing your breakfast, you might have reason to doubt if it was real . 

You used generically above

Your disbelief won't stop anything which has it's own physical existence from interacting with you or impacting on you for good or bad.  It is just a form of denial which makes you feel comfortable and safe.

Actually. It's just how my...no BS...mind works.

[Habitat]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Actually. It's just how my...no BS...mind works.

As I say, joc, you are a joker, now we learn there are no other "sentient beings" in our "neck" of the galaxy. I'm not sure what comprises a neck, in astronomical terms, but that is just a dead-set guess, joc, and really there is a severe disconnect between your alleged scientific rigour, and what streams forth from you. But P101 will probably give you a "like" for it !

[+joc]

23 minutes ago, Habitat said:

As I say, joc, you are a joker, now we learn there are no other "sentient beings" in our "neck" of the galaxy. I'm not sure what comprises a neck, in astronomical terms, but that is just a dead-set guess, joc, and really there is a severe disconnect between your alleged scientific rigour, and what streams forth from you. But P101 will probably give you a "like" for it !

Where are they then?  Ask your Grams to Morse Code you their location.

 

[Habitat]

10 minutes ago, joc said:

Where are they then?  Ask your Grams to Morse Code you their location.

 

They are in the fuzzy patch ?   Seriously joc, there is a lot of room out there for all kinds of possibilities, and we can't possibly be making any kind of reasonable judgements about such questions, unless we are gifted with omniscience. Are you ?

[+joc]

3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

They are in the fuzzy patch ?   Seriously joc, there is a lot of room out there for all kinds of possibilities, and we can't possibly be making any kind of reasonable judgements about such questions, unless we are gifted with omniscience. Are you ?

No.  We can make educated guesses.  We have found zero planets capable of life.  As far as we know...no other life in our galaxy exists.  

Edited November 10, 2018 by joc

[Habitat]

1 minute ago, joc said:

As far as we know

We don't know very far at all, joc, we don't even know if there isn't some kind of life elsewhere in our own solar system, and won't really know in our lifetimes, in all probability. As to exoplanets we have found, there is really just a paucity of information about them, as would pertain to the possibilities of life, and those detected are just the tiniest fraction even in the "neck" of the galaxy. No judgements can be made.

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, joc said:

Actually. It's just how my...no BS...mind works.

Ok; yes, i can appreciate that 

Your mind just knows things to be true or false .

It does not require evidences that those things are true or false, because it has a built in BS meter that tells you which is which. .  

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Ok; yes, i can appreciate that 

Your mind just knows things to be true or false .

It does not require evidences that those things are true or false, because it has a built in BS meter that tells you which is which. .  

You are getting close.  The truth is what the truth is.  Belief is irrelevant with regards to the truth. The truth just is. Some of us have a BS meter and some of ya"ll just don't.  Until someone proves that Aliens, Ghosts, Sasquatches, Gods, Entities, or AfterLife  exist...I conclude they do not. Not yours or anyone else's anecdotle evidence via personal experience will persuade me otherwise. 

[Habitat]

10 minutes ago, joc said:

Some of us have a BS meter and some of ya"ll just don't. 

Classic !  Seems you have it all worked out, so might as well not argue.

[jaylemurph]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Your mind just knows things to be true or false .

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by jaylemurph

[Habitat]

7 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

n*cough* platitude *cough*

Besides being platitudinous in the extreme, that's also a explicit rejection of all Western philosophic thought since the pre-Socratics and a finger in the air towards all rational thought. Might as well say we just *know* in every circumstance whether something is good or bad. I hope you can see the multiple intellectual failures of that statement.

--Jaylemurph

I think he was just having a dig at joc's claiming an infallible BS meter in his head !

[jaylemurph]

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

I think he was just having a dig at joc's claiming an infallible BS meter in his head !

So he was. Clearly. I'll delete my post, make an apology to Mr Walker (my humblest apologies, Mr Walker,  I was clearly wrong from the get-go and spoke out of line), and think twice before posting once from now on. Here's a picture of a smiling basset hound:

--Jaylemurph

 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, joc said:

You are getting close.  The truth is what the truth is.  Belief is irrelevant with regards to the truth. The truth just is. Some of us have a BS meter and some of ya"ll just don't.  Until someone proves that Aliens, Ghosts, Sasquatches, Gods, Entities, or AfterLife  exist...I conclude they do not. Not yours or anyone else's anecdotle evidence via personal experience will persuade me otherwise. 

ALL of that is fair and reasonable, and a logical position. 

None of it, however, justifies a claim that you can KNOW that such things do not exist.

I have no argument with anything you wrote in this post   

[Mr Walker]

46 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

So he was. Clearly. I'll delete my post, make an apology to Mr Walker (my humblest apologies, Mr Walker,  I was clearly wrong from the get-go and spoke out of line), and think twice before posting once from now on. Here's a picture of a smiling basset hound:

--Jaylemurph

 

No problem. I don't often use sarcasm, and  chose not to put in a smiley in order  to heighten the ridiculousness of the claim that a  mind can know something to be true or false without any evidences, but just because it fits with, or conflicts with, your beliefs/world view.

I do now understand how joc's mind works, and why he holds such strong opinions that he expresses them as statements of  fact.  He sincerely believes that  they ARE facts.    

[Rlyeh]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:02 AM, XenoQc said:

You guys know nothing about the cosmic familly and what is to be a figure. Really funny!

 

I am not putting anything into my son's head

Do you still talk to your alien family?

[+joc]

12 hours ago, Habitat said:

We don't know very far at all, joc, we don't even know if there isn't some kind of life elsewhere in our own solar system, and won't really know in our lifetimes, in all probability. As to exoplanets we have found, there is really just a paucity of information about them, as would pertain to the possibilities of life, and those detected are just the tiniest fraction even in the "neck" of the galaxy. No judgements can be made.

We know for a fact there are no planets in our solar system which have living creatures on them.  

We know the prerequisites for life to exist.  So far we have only found a few planets where that could be a possibility...and they are not in our solar system.

[+joc]

6 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

ALL of that is fair and reasonable, and a logical position. 

None of it, however, justifies a claim that you can KNOW that such things do not exist.

I have no argument with anything you wrote in this post   

It is justified to make such claims. There is data and knowledge to support a conclusion that consciousness...i.e. the soul...dies with the body.  There is zero data to support the conclusion that life continues on without the body.  Ditto...the rest of my list.

Edited November 10, 2018 by joc

[Habitat]

7 hours ago, joc said:

We know for a fact there are no planets in our solar system which have living creatures on them.  

No we don't. There is even the possibility of some kind of line on the moons of various planets in our solar system. Answering one way or the other would an enormous project.