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RoofGardener

US Palestine "Embassy" closed

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Setton
On 06/11/2018 at 7:24 AM, RoofGardener said:

Hmm.. I'd agree with the former part of that. However, my point remains: Jerusalem was highly desired by the Israeli's for many hundreds - if not thousands - of years, and remembered in their Yom Kippur prayers right up until 1948. (and beyond). 

The Palestinians, on the other hand, didn't care about Jerusalem until Israel stated that it would be the capital of Israel, at which point they suddenly made it the capital of a future Palestinian State. It was pure spite, and a tactic to ensure that there could never be a negotiated settlement. Pure cynicism. 

I'm sorry, are you suggesting that Israel has the best claim to Jerusalem because they've wanted it for thousands of years? EVERYONE has wanted it for thousands of years. And since Palestinians are defined as descendants of the people living in that area for thousands of years, they have inherently wanted Jerusalem for longer than the Jews (since the city predates Judaism). So, yeah, pretty shaky logic there. 

As for my position on it, I think Kingdom of Heaven puts it rather well:

Who has claim? No one has claim. Everyone has claim

Jerusalem should be maintained by a joint council of religions, for all. And independent of ANY state. 

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Setton said:

I'm sorry, are you suggesting that Israel has the best claim to Jerusalem because they've wanted it for thousands of years? EVERYONE has wanted it for thousands of years. And since Palestinians are defined as descendants of the people living in that area for thousands of years, they have inherently wanted Jerusalem for longer than the Jews (since the city predates Judaism). So, yeah, pretty shaky logic there. 

As for my position on it, I think Kingdom of Heaven puts it rather well:

Who has claim? No one has claim. Everyone has claim

Jerusalem should be maintained by a joint council of religions, for all. And independent of ANY state. 

I think that is an EXCELLENT idea. And MUCH better than the policy of the Israeli government, which is to hand over control of the premises to a Muslim Council in Jordan !!

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Black Red Devil
9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

The Jewish immigration HELPED the poorer Arab farmers. The Jews where NOT "safe" under Islamic Rule; they where second class citizens. As for ownership of the land.. well.. there is a VERY interesting article that describes life for the peasant farmer... http://www.zionism-israel.com/hdoc/rural_palestine.htm

Seriously?  From your article.

Conclusions

The rural economy of Palestine was in a depressed state when the British military entered the country in 1917, and it had worsened by 1939 when World War II commenced. 

This was the period when most Jews from Eastern Europe migrated to Palestine. link

Also, "The Jews where NOT "safe" under Islamic Rule; they where second class citizens."  Correct, but they were safe as long as they paid the jizya, anyway back to modern times, I guess the Jews have quickly forgotten how it was to be treated as a second class citizen in your own land. :P  Approving a bill to make Israel a Jewish State means all other religious ethnicities have automatically become second class citizens.

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third_eye
4 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Approving a bill to make Israel a Jewish State means all other religious ethnicities have automatically become second class citizens.

Must be on that tablet that happy Moses dropped on the way down from Sinai ...

~

[00.01:13]

~

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RoofGardener
9 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Seriously?  From your article.

Conclusions

The rural economy of Palestine was in a depressed state when the British military entered the country in 1917, and it had worsened by 1939 when World War II commenced. 

This was the period when most Jews from Eastern Europe migrated to Palestine. link

.....

The Jews - back in those days - where not major players in rural agriculture, BRD. The decline was caused by the stupid "rotating ownership" Musha' system, which disinsentivised all agricultural development. That, and rapacious Arab landlords. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 11/5/2018 at 2:30 AM, NewAge1 said:

Fixed that for you. ;)

I agree with you and I am a Trump backer on many issues. this sucks, imo. Trump will do what the zionists dictate

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 11/7/2018 at 8:08 AM, RoofGardener said:

The Jewish immigration HELPED the poorer Arab farmers. The Jews where NOT "safe" under Islamic Rule; they where second class citizens. As for ownership of the land.. well.. there is a VERY interesting article that describes life for the peasant farmer... http://www.zionism-israel.com/hdoc/rural_palestine.htm

ROFLMAO!!! "Thank you Mezzah. Don't shoot me now, I be good Mezzah"

Come on, RG. Really???

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 11/7/2018 at 5:37 PM, Black Red Devil said:

Seriously?  From your article.

Conclusions

The rural economy of Palestine was in a depressed state when the British military entered the country in 1917, and it had worsened by 1939 when World War II commenced. 

This was the period when most Jews from Eastern Europe migrated to Palestine. link

Also, "The Jews where NOT "safe" under Islamic Rule; they where second class citizens."  Correct, but they were safe as long as they paid the jizya, anyway back to modern times, I guess the Jews have quickly forgotten how it was to be treated as a second class citizen in your own land. :P  Approving a bill to make Israel a Jewish State means all other religious ethnicities have automatically become second class citizens.

Can you imagine the revolt if Christians declared America a Christian state???

Ho-Lee cow?!

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third_eye

The Great Prophet of Logic ...

~

[00.09:16]

 

~

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Phaeton80
On 6-11-2018 at 1:56 PM, RoofGardener said:

Speaking of "Victim Cards", there was a spectacular own-goal a few days ago. Palestinian TV showed a picture of dead bodies piled up on the ground, proporting to be dead Arabs following the capture of the village of Al-Dawayima in 1948. 

Except it isn't. It's a picture of dead jews from the Nordhausen concentration camp in 1945. Victim card indeed ! 

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=26613

Ironic, as the Palestinians teach schoolkids that the holocaust never happened !

(oh.. and this is the SECOND time they've tried to pass this particular picture off as being arab bodies. On the previous occasion they claimed the dead "arab" bodies where from Deir Yassin.)

 


Across the vanquished city in a jeep he did speed –
A lad bold and armed, a young lion of a lad!
And an old man and a woman on that very street
Cowered against a wall, in fear of him clad.
Said the lad smiling, milk teeth shining:
“I’ll try the machine gun”… and put it into play!
To hide his face in his hands the old man barely had time
When his blood on the wall was sprayed.

We shall sing, then, about “delicate incidents”
Whose name, don’t you know, is murder.
Sing of conversations with sympathetic listeners,
Of snickers of forgiveness that are slurred.

For those in combat gear, and we who impinge,
Whether by action or agreement subliminal,
Are thrust, muttering “necessity” and “revenge,”
Into the realm of the war criminal..

Natan Alterman. Credit: Moshe Milner / GPO

 

Quote

Extremely moved by the verses, David Ben-Gurion, then chairman of the Provisional State Council in the nascent Jewish state, wrote Alterman: “Congratulations on the moral validity and the powerful expressiveness of your latest column in Davar… You are a pure and faithful mouthpiece of the human conscience, which, if it does not act and beat in our hearts in times like these, will render us unworthy of the great wonders vouchsafed to us until now. “I ask your permission to have 100,000 copies of the article – which no armored column in our army exceeds in combat strength – printed by the Defense Ministry for distribution to every army person in Israel.”

What were the war crimes referred to in the poem?

The massacres perpetrated by Israeli forces in Lydda (Lod) and in the village of Al-Dawayima, west of Hebron, were among the worst mass killings of the entire War of Independence. In an interview in Haaretz in 2004, historian Benny Morris (author of “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949”) declared that the most egregious massacres “occurred at Saliha, in Upper Galilee (70-80 victims), Deir Yassin on the outskirts of Jerusalem (100-110), Lod (50), Dawamiya (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70).”

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-the-poem-that-exposed-atrocities-perpetrated-by-israel-in-48-1.5418995

http://www.ihgjlm.com/2016/03/25/breaking-the-silence-the-poem-that-exposed-israeli-war-crimes-in-1948/


..And yet, zealots like 'Roofgardener' will use one of the worst mass killings / warcrimes by the IDF as an example of Palestinians falsely playing the victim card, in a passionate attempt to defend his Holy Israel employing such malignant tactics on a daily basis.. while ever illegally encroaching on Palestinian land, suppressing and oppressing a native people without a military.. mass killing native Semetical civilians - including women & children - by the thousands. 

See, there is a wee difference between falsely using a picture depicting a mass killing when such a mass killing did in fact take place.. compared to attempting to position yourself as the victim while you yourself are, in fact, the quintessential agressor, suppressor, oppressor.

Edited by Phaeton80
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RoofGardener
51 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

..And yet, zealots like 'Roofgardener' will use one of the worst mass killings / warcrimes by the IDF as an example of Palestinians falsely playing the victim card, in a passionate attempt to defend his Holy Israel employing such malignant tactics on a daily basis.. while ever illegally encroaching on Palestinian land, suppressing and oppressing a native people without a military.. mass killing native Semetical civilians - including women & children - by the thousands. 

See, there is a wee difference between falsely using a picture depicting a mass killing when such a mass killing did in fact take place.. compared to attempting to position yourself as the victim while you yourself are, in fact, the quintessential agressor, suppressor, oppressor.

Zealots like Roofgardener ? ZEALOTS ? Take a GOOD look in the mirror, Phaeton80. 

You are trying to justify blatant propaganda. The Palestinians showed a picture of a german concentration camp, with the bodies of jews piled up, and claimed that it was an Arab village with the bodies of arabs piled up. 

You statement that " .. when such a mass killing did in fact take place.." is flagrant nonsense and double-think. I'm amazed. 

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Phaeton80
59 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Zealots like Roofgardener ? ZEALOTS ? Take a GOOD look in the mirror, Phaeton80. 

You are trying to justify blatant propaganda. The Palestinians showed a picture of a german concentration camp, with the bodies of jews piled up, and claimed that it was an Arab village with the bodies of arabs piled up. 

You statement that " .. when such a mass killing did in fact take place.." is flagrant nonsense and double-think. I'm amazed. 


Yes, zealous;

Quote

Zealous: marked by fervent partisanship for a person, a cause, or an ideal : filled with or characterized by zeal

..as in pertaining to an individual who would feverishly deny and/or defend a, say, political Zionist entity structurally hiding behind a victim role while occupying, oppressing and mass culling of a native ethnic (Semetic) culture with the 4th most powerful army on the face of this earth. Swiftly and loudly proclaiming 'Anti Semitism' at any and every opportunity to stifle any and every form of critique concerning the crimes perpetrated against these people, these SEMITES, while demanding acknowledgement.. no a passe partout even, based on similar crimes committed against its congregation in the distant past.

Concerning your amazement about the statement "..when such a mass killing did take place.."

Quote

‘Barbarism by an educated and cultured people’ — Dawayima massacre was worse than Deir Yassin

“‘There was no battle and no resistance (and no Egyptians). The first conquerors killed from eighty to a hundred Arabs [including] women and children. The children were killed by smashing of their skulls with sticks. Is it possible to shout about Deir Yassin and be silent about something much worse?’ For the first time ever, a letter quoting one of the Israeli soldiers who were part of the Al-Dawayima massacre in October 1948 is published in full.”

https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/barbarism-educated-cultured-people-dawayima-massacre-worse-deir-yassin/

Survival of the Fittest

Historian Benny Morris, who opened the Pandora's box of Zionism, has found a new way to deal with the demons he unleashed.

[..]

"The revised book is a double-edged sword. It is based on many documents that were not available to me when I wrote the original book, most of them from the Israel Defense Forces Archives. What the new material shows is that there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought. To my surprise, there were also many cases of rape. In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah [the pre-state defense force that was the precursor of the IDF] were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves.

[..]

According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?

"Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved.

"The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion.

"That can't be chance. It's a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres."

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5262454



'G*ds Chosen' doing 'G*ds Work' to beget 'a G*d Given Land', screaming 'Anti Semite' at everyone lamenting and/or opposing the oppression, dispossession, mass murder & cultural culling of a native Semitic population.

In·ver·sion | \in-ˈvər-zhən

The condition of being turned inward or inside out

 

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RoofGardener
5 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:


Yes, zealous;

..as in pertaining to an individual who would feverishly deny and/or defend a, say, political Zionist entity structurally hiding behind a victim role while occupying, oppressing and mass culling of a native ethnic (Semetic) culture with the 4th most powerful army on the face of this earth. Swiftly and loudly proclaiming 'Anti Semitism' at any and every opportunity to stifle any and every form of critique concerning the crimes perpetrated against these people, these SEMITES, while demanding acknowledgement.. no a passe partout even, based on similar crimes committed against its congregation in the distant past.

Concerning your amazement about the statement "..when such a mass killing did take place.."



'G*ds Chosen' doing 'G*ds Work' to beget 'a G*d Given Land', screaming 'Anti Semite' at everyone lamenting and/or opposing the oppression, dispossession, mass murder & cultural culling of a native Semitic population.

In·ver·sion | \in-ˈvər-zhən

The condition of being turned inward or inside out

 

Gosh what's this ? It appears to be a coloured fish. 

Hmm...it appears to be a variety of the genus Clupeidae , and it appears to be a red-ish colour. 

Phaeton, no matter how much you bang on about massacres, the facts are that the Palestinian official government media published a lie. A fraud. They took pictures of thousands of dead jews piled up in a German concentration camp, and tried to claim that it was Arabs killed by Israeli's. 

NO matter how much you squirm, you cannot justify such a deception. You Palestinian Zealot you :D 

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third_eye
10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

... the facts are that the Palestinian official government media published a lie. A fraud. They took pictures of thousands of dead jews piled up in a German concentration camp, and tried to claim that it was Arabs killed by Israeli's. 

The image used was what was available to them, with what limited resources that was available, an unfortunate mistake but a mistake nonetheless ... but that does not make the core of the News content a lie or a fraud. If you have the stomach for the real pictures archives of the events mentioned here you can readily find them from the readily available and accessible archives on the internet. I would post the links but the pictures are of the nature that is frowned upon here on UM, even if the records are historical and more than merely a fact.

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, third_eye said:

The image used was what was available to them, with what limited resources that was available, an unfortunate mistake but a mistake nonetheless ... but that does not make the core of the News content a lie or a fraud. If you have the stomach for the real pictures archives of the events mentioned here you can readily find them from the readily available and accessible archives on the internet. I would post the links but the pictures are of the nature that is frowned upon here on UM, even if the records are historical and more than merely a fact.

Hmm... except.. it wasn't a mistake, was it ? This is the SECOND time they have used that photograph, and claimed that it showed dead Arabs. The where criticised for it the FIRST time. So it is unlikely that the SECOND useage was an 'accident'. 

If you use an image in a 'story', and lie about what the image is showing, then I'm afraid it DOES make the news story a lie. 

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third_eye
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

If you use an image in a 'story', and lie about what the image is showing, then I'm afraid it DOES make the news story a lie. 

Hardly surprising coming from you on such a point, kinda what Lance Armstrong tips his Lie Strong tactics.

~

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and then
14 hours ago, third_eye said:

The image used was what was available to them, with what limited resources that was available, an unfortunate mistake but a mistake nonetheless ... but that does not make the core of the News content a lie or a fraud. If you have the stomach for the real pictures archives of the events mentioned here you can readily find them from the readily available and accessible archives on the internet. I would post the links but the pictures are of the nature that is frowned upon here on UM, even if the records are historical and more than merely a fact.

Are you saying they don't have access to photographs of "massacres" that happened to their own people?  Then you said there were just such images available but you couldn't post them here because of UM rules?  FTR, I agree that there have been massacres done by BOTH sides since Israel began striving for independence.  There will be widespread casualties in the future as well.  Until the Palestinian leadership is forced to negotiate a peace deal the violence will continue unabated.

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third_eye
6 hours ago, and then said:

Are you saying they don't have access to photographs of "massacres" that happened to their own people?  Then you said there were just such images available but you couldn't post them here because of UM rules?  FTR, I agree that there have been massacres done by BOTH sides since Israel began striving for independence. 

No, I said they do not have the resources and personnel to limit such instances, most of them that are working ay PA TV are poorly financed and also poorly trained. Its a sorry excuse of an ivory tower only in namesake. Hardly a media platform that is able to compete, even on the internet. 

~

6 hours ago, and then said:

There will be widespread casualties in the future as well.  Until the Palestinian leadership is forced to negotiate a peace deal the violence will continue unabated.

Great to see you being in so high spirits over it ... no need to sound so euphoric and up beat

~

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and then
5 hours ago, third_eye said:

Great to see you being in so high spirits over it ... no need to sound so euphoric and up beat

You really see everything I say through your own, unique filter.  You seem to think of me as a ghoul.  I wonder how many other people your biases pidgeon-hole incorrectly.  Maybe you should wonder too.

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third_eye
6 hours ago, and then said:

You really see everything I say through your own, unique filter.  You seem to think of me as a ghoul.  I wonder how many other people your biases pidgeon-hole incorrectly.  Maybe you should wonder too.

It is in the manner of your speech, I don't have to wonder. I read it as I see it. Its bad enough that you adorn upon thyself the authority to speak as others, but it is those numerous occasion that you absolutely stuff your repugnant views into the scripts and mouth of the Saints and reputed to be Divine, that I find to be ghoulish.

~

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 11/7/2018 at 3:24 PM, RoofGardener said:

I think that is an EXCELLENT idea. And MUCH better than the policy of the Israeli government, which is to hand over control of the premises to a Muslim Council in Jordan !!

Hehe... Don't laugh but long ago I drummed up the idea that Israel should be run by a UN council as the head and some law making congress that consists of say - one person from every country in the world. Works! and when things become normalized, give the power back to whoever gets elected. If that happens to be majority Muslim, then so be it. These Israelis want apartheid in the ME with Muslims being treated like Black South Africans and it is never going to work.

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RoofGardener
5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Hehe... Don't laugh but long ago I drummed up the idea that Israel should be run by a UN council as the head and some law making congress that consists of say - one person from every country in the world. Works! and when things become normalized, give the power back to whoever gets elected. If that happens to be majority Muslim, then so be it. These Israelis want apartheid in the ME with Muslims being treated like Black South Africans and it is never going to work.

That's a ... curious.. thing to say, Earl.Of.Trumps. Would you happy for that "international" congress to rule.. say.. the USA ? Or France ? Or the UK ? 

Of course you wouldn't. So why propose to impose such a thing on Israel ? 

As for "normalised".. well... for the majority of Israeli Jews (and Arabs), Israel IS normalised. They have a vibrant liberal democracy - the only one for about a 1000 mile radius - a thriving economy, including international hi-tech exports, and very good race relations. The head of their Supreme Court is an Arab muslim, along with many members of the Knesset - including cabinet members. There are Arab generals in the military, and the Inspector General of the Israeli police force is a muslim Arab Israeli. There are Arab Israeli's on the boards of ALL state-owned companies (by law). Arab Israeli's constitute about 6% of the Civil Service, including at Ambassadorial rank. Arabs constitute about 50% of private land owners. In frequent polls, Arab Israeli's state that they would prefer to live in Israel than any other Arab nation. (and it is a fact that Israeli Arabs have greater economic and social freedom than in any Arab state).

What's not normal ? Where is the apartheid ? 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

That's a ... curious.. thing to say, Earl.Of.Trumps. Would you happy for that "international" congress to rule.. say.. the USA ? Or France ? Or the UK ? 

Of course you wouldn't. So why propose to impose such a thing on Israel ? 

As for "normalised".. well... for the majority of Israeli Jews (and Arabs), Israel IS normalised. They have a vibrant liberal democracy - the only one for about a 1000 mile radius - a thriving economy, including international hi-tech exports, and very good race relations. The head of their Supreme Court is an Arab muslim, along with many members of the Knesset - including cabinet members. There are Arab generals in the military, and the Inspector General of the Israeli police force is a muslim Arab Israeli. There are Arab Israeli's on the boards of ALL state-owned companies (by law). Arab Israeli's constitute about 6% of the Civil Service, including at Ambassadorial rank. Arabs constitute about 50% of private land owners. In frequent polls, Arab Israeli's state that they would prefer to live in Israel than any other Arab nation. (and it is a fact that Israeli Arabs have greater economic and social freedom than in any Arab state).

What's not normal ? Where is the apartheid ? 

I)    Would I wish my form of government for the US or UK...? Only if they got out of hand, of course. It'll never happen though. Nor did it happen in South Africa, nor will it ever happen in Israel.

II) Your display of Israeli "success" can often be said about criminal mobs but that does not show the crimes they commit. No matter how rosy a scenario you paint for the civil Israeli government, you simply cannot get around this government's on going crimes, the biggest of which is preventing native Palestinians the right to return to their birthplace from a netherland hell hole that the Israeli government worked so very hard to put them.

III) You present a picture of token Arabs within the Israeli government and business infrastructure but again, you do not acknowledge the brutal treatment that they give to many "non Jewish" people in Israel. Group punishment - which is illegal, btw, happens frequently in Israel. A successful missile launch here or a murder of a Jewish citizen there many times results in hundreds of innocent people being punished with lost electrical and water services and many who lose their lives. Would Israel EVER do this to Jews...?

Much of recent Jewish history that we hear frequently in western media is about a minority Jewish people who were ostracized, brutalized and killed. And now they have become the very oppressor that they complained about.

PS: I was always under the impression that under Israeli law, Arab Muslims were not allowed into the IDF. Is this not true??

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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RoofGardener
14 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I)    Would I wish my form of government for the US or UK...? Only if they got out of hand, of course. It'll never happen though. Nor did it happen in South Africa, nor will it ever happen in Israel.....

Out of hand ? Hmm... by what standards ? So far as I am aware, Israel - since its creation - has been in a unique position. How would the USA react if Mexico demanded the return of New Mexico, and started launching attacks across the border ? Not once, but over a 50+ year period ? 

14 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

.....II) Your display of Israeli "success" can often be said about criminal mobs but that does not show the crimes they commit. No matter how rosy a scenario you paint for the civil Israeli government, you simply cannot get around this government's on going crimes, the biggest of which is preventing native Palestinians the right to return to their birthplace from a netherland hell hole that the Israeli government worked so very hard to put them...

 The West Bank is only a "netherland hell hole" because the PLO made it that way. They don't WANT a successful Palestinian civil society; they want the jews destroyed. So they keep the hate alive by deliberately NOT building the institutions of society, and instead focus on training their children in hatred and suicide attacks. 

14 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

......You present a picture of token Arabs within the Israeli government and business infrastructure but again, you do not acknowledge the brutal treatment that they give to many "non Jewish" people in Israel. Group punishment - which is illegal, btw, happens frequently in Israel. A successful missile launch here or a murder of a Jewish citizen there many times results in hundreds of innocent people being punished with lost electrical and water services and many who lose their lives. Would Israel EVER do this to Jews...?

Ummm... punishment WITHIN ISRAEL ? Are you SURE ? I've heard of allegations of group punishment in the occupied territories, but not within Israel itself ? Also.. I'd hardly call the Chief of Police and the head of the Supreme Court to be "token" jobs ? 

14 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

PS: I was always under the impression that under Israeli law, Arab Muslims were not allowed into the IDF. Is this not true??

No, that was Arab Muslim attitudes, not Israeli law. 

.. and the attitudes are slowly changing. There are an increasing number of young Arab Muslims joining the IDF. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/arab-israelis-are-joining-idf-growing-numbers-officials-n724586

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 11/26/2018 at 3:33 AM, RoofGardener said:

Out of hand ? Hmm... by what standards ? So far as I am aware, Israel - since its creation - has been in a unique position. How would the USA react if Mexico demanded the return of New Mexico, and started launching attacks across the border ? Not once, but over a 50+ year period ? 

 The West Bank is only a "netherland hell hole" because the PLO made it that way. They don't WANT a successful Palestinian civil society; they want the jews destroyed. So they keep the hate alive by deliberately NOT building the institutions of society, and instead focus on training their children in hatred and suicide attacks. 

Ummm... punishment WITHIN ISRAEL ? Are you SURE ? I've heard of allegations of group punishment in the occupied territories, but not within Israel itself ? Also.. I'd hardly call the Chief of Police and the head of the Supreme Court to be "token" jobs ? 

No, that was Arab Muslim attitudes, not Israeli law. 

.. and the attitudes are slowly changing. There are an increasing number of young Arab Muslims joining the IDF. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/arab-israelis-are-joining-idf-growing-numbers-officials-n724586

1) Rightfully or wrongfully, the US has possession of New Mexico. But believe me, RG, if Mexican people had no Mexico to live in, I'd be in support of making that possible. You cannot compare the two situations. Many Many Palestinians have no homeland. *That's* what this is really all about.

2) THIS -----> "... the PLO made it that way. They don't WANT a successful Palestinian civil society" . Oh, so a few years back when Israel fired shells into everything and everyone killing 301 children this was something Palestinian leadership wanted...? Really!?

RG, if Palestinians did not want a successful civil society **as they once had before the invasion of the body snatchers** THEN WHY ARE THEY FIGHTING AND COMPLAINING? It is to  improve their quality of LIFE. They had it good once. They want to go back to that. And they get my full support.

All of this come down to one simplistic idea. If Jews treated the Palestinians the way they treat Jews, we wouldn't be dealing with this mess 50 years later

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