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RoofGardener

US Palestine "Embassy" closed

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RoofGardener

It appears that President Trump is tightening the screws on the Palestinians. The US Jerusalem Diplomatic Mission - effectively the US's embassy to the Palestinian Authority - will be downgraded, and become an adjunct of the US Embassy to Israel. 

https://www.news24.com/World/News/us-downgrades-jerusalem-diplomatic-mission-to-palestinians-20181018

This may be regarded as a primarily symbolic gesture, but it closes down an independent channel of information about Palestine to the State Department. Now EVERYTHING will come from the main embassy. It remains, however, a snub to the Palestinians. 

 

Excellent :D 

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Phaeton80

Your gloating over the continued bullying, attempts at isolation and general maltreatment of everything Palestinian is truely nauseating. Now cheering on the closing of 'independent channels of information about Palestine'.

Score! :clap:

..Allthewhile ofcourse continuing to passionately wave the victim card around like you are the one being oppressed, occupied, decimated by a massively funded, highly advanced military apparatus. Isnt it fascinating how traumatized victims can turn into the most heinouss criminals, become that which they loathed most (supremacist, ultra nationalist, racist, fascist, genocidal; even employed against Semites). What a sick twist of fate..

 

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Farmer77
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

This may be regarded as a primarily symbolic gesture,

 

The Trump administration makes a symbolic gesture that makes white christian folks happy via hostility to brown skinned folks....shocker

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third_eye
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

 

The Trump administration makes a symbolic gesture that makes white christian folks happy via hostility to brown skinned folks....shocker

He needs their charitable votes ...

~

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joc
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

 

The Trump administration makes a symbolic gesture that makes white christian folks happy via hostility to brown skinned folks....shocker

It is a gesture that tells Iran...we are not playing your Hamas game anymore!

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Your gloating over the continued bullying, attempts at isolation and general maltreatment of everything Palestinian is truely nauseating. Now cheering on the closing of 'independent channels of information about Palestine'.

Score! :clap:

My gloating over the PLO commanders FINALLY being treated like adults, and not children, and being taught that actions have consequences, is truly appropriate :) 

2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

..Allthewhile ofcourse continuing to passionately wave the victim card around like you are the one being oppressed, occupied, decimated by a massively funded, highly advanced military apparatus. Isnt it fascinating how traumatized victims can turn into the most heinouss criminals, become that which they loathed most (supremacist, ultra nationalist, racist, fascist, genocidal; even employed against Semites). What a sick twist of fate..

What on EARTH are you talking about Phaeton80 ? What "victim card" ? And how many of the PLO high command - which are running the show - are "traumatized victims" ? 

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

The Trump administration makes a symbolic gesture that makes white christian folks happy via hostility to brown skinned folks....shocker

You're trying to frame President Trumps response to the Palestinians in purely racial terms ? 

I mean... really ? 

floccinaucinihilipilificate in your general direction, to quote the Bible. 

(book of Mogg, chapter VIII, verse XXI)

Edited by RoofGardener
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Farmer77
9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

You're trying to frame President Trumps response to the Palestinians in purely racial terms ? 

Of course not, the whole religion thing obviously plays a huge part

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Black Red Devil

So on the one hand Pompeo states, "The United States continues to take no position on final status issues, including boundaries or borders" while at the same time Trump agrees to move the US Embassy to East Jerusalem which is regarded by the UN, EU, the International Court of Justice and most of the rest of the world, as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories together with the West Bank. Now the Palestinians can't even have a private dialogue with the US unless they get proofread by Israel.  :lol:

Sounds quite obvious to me the US has made it's position clear on status and borders.  The State of Palestine was recognised by 136 countries worldwide in 2012, including Russia and China although they have no territory except for Gaza where the Israelis have enforced a blockade on basically everything .  The Palestinians need to push the issues, open up Gaza to the Russians and Chinese or do something by bypassing US interference.  It's quite clear they can't expect any objectivity from the Trump Administration.

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NewAge1
6 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

It's quite clear they can't expect any objectivity from the Trump Administration (Christian Zionist Administration).

Fixed that for you. ;)

Edited by NewAge1
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RoofGardener
7 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

So on the one hand Pompeo states, "The United States continues to take no position on final status issues, including boundaries or borders" while at the same time Trump agrees to move the US Embassy to East Jerusalem which is regarded by the UN, EU, the International Court of Justice and most of the rest of the world, as part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories together with the West Bank. Now the Palestinians can't even have a private dialogue with the US unless they get proofread by Israel.  :lol:

Sounds quite obvious to me the US has made it's position clear on status and borders.  The State of Palestine was recognised by 136 countries worldwide in 2012, including Russia and China although they have no territory except for Gaza where the Israelis have enforced a blockade on basically everything .  The Palestinians need to push the issues, open up Gaza to the Russians and Chinese or do something by bypassing US interference.  It's quite clear they can't expect any objectivity from the Trump Administration.

Firstly, the American Embassy is in West Jerusalem, so it has ZERO impact on the "final status issues". 

Secondly, the PLO only made its claim on Jerusalem in the 1970's, in order to spite the Jews, who had claimed it as their capital several thousand years ago, and rekindled their desire to return to it every year in their Yom Kippur prayers. 

Thirdly, the UN actually proposed Jerusalem as an International City. The jews agreed to this - albeit reluctantly. The Arabs rejected it out of hand, just as they rejected the entire UN partition plan, and the possibility of ANY Jewish nation.

So to hell with them. 

As for Russian or Chinese involvement in Palestine.... dude.... the Russians and Chinese - in common with most Arab states - have total contempt for the "Palestinians". They would rather gargle slugs than get involved. 

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third_eye

 

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

They would rather gargle slugs than get involved. 

Reminds me of this little gem of a close scrutiny ...

~

LieStrong - Lance Armstrong's Body Language Decoded - YouTube

[00.20:47]

~

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Phaeton80
On 4-11-2018 at 2:16 PM, RoofGardener said:

My gloating over the PLO commanders FINALLY being treated like adults, and not children, and being taught that actions have consequences, is truly appropriate :) 

So, 'Palestinian = PLO commanders'. Got it!

Also, the fact the PLO was created to liberate Palestine through armed struggle - something you and I would do without any doubt if we were the ones being occupied, oppressed, robbed of our freedom and future by a foreign military - doesnt have any bearing on their criminal acts against Holy Israel (in your mind), does it. Causality, action > reaction. Take someones land, pillage their homes, murder their wives and children (who are undoubtedly 'PLO or HAMAS operatives' to people like you), and rob them from any semblance of a future.. and you will get targetted. And rightly so, completely rational human reaction. What isnt rational, is doing the aformentioned, then proceed to cry like a spoiled little child about such a reaction, even continuously encroaching on Palestinian land, only to respond thesame when there is a(n armed) reaction from those you victimize. Welcome to the inverted world of the Zionist..

What on EARTH are you talking about Phaeton80 ? What "victim card" ? And how many of the PLO high command - which are running the show - are "traumatized victims" ? 

Yeah, think that one missed some clarity. What I meant - I think obviously, but that might be relative - was the victim card pulled by the usual Zionistically inclined suspects, not you personally. And with 'traumatized victims becoming that which they loathed most', I mean the historically victimized Zionist (not Jew) turning into something Nazi Germany would regard as superior (to their own genocidal/murderous ideological tendencies). It takes some time, sure; but it will get the job done.. allthewhile being able to maintain the victim position, no real lashback involved. I mean, any other nation on earth committing the crimes Israel has fomented against such a minority (without a military) would have been deconstructed 50 years ago.

 

Edited by Phaeton80

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RoofGardener

Yes Phaeton: Palestinian = Palestinian Commanders, because the individual palestinians have ZERO say in what happens; they are controlled by a fascistic military autocracy. The average Palestinian would NOT normally throw molotov cocktails at troops; their leaders provoke them into it. 

We know this is true, because there IS a group of Palestinians that are NOT under the influence of the PLO commanders. This group does NOT continuously and violently agitate and provoke Israeli responses. This group is known as "Arab Israeli's". There are rather a lot of them, and they have prosperous and productive lives. 

As for your comments about Victimisation; I find it incoherent. :(

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and then
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Yes Phaeton: Palestinian = Palestinian Commanders, because the individual palestinians have ZERO say in what happens; they are controlled by a fascistic military autocracy. The average Palestinian would NOT normally throw molotov cocktails at troops; their leaders provoke them into it. 

We know this is true, because there IS a group of Palestinians that are NOT under the influence of the PLO commanders. This group does NOT continuously and violently agitate and provoke Israeli responses. This group is known as "Arab Israeli's". There are rather a lot of them, and they have prosperous and productive lives. 

As for your comments about Victimisation; I find it incoherent. :(

It is this truth that makes me find those who act like they're so interested in the poor Palestinians, disgusting.  They don't care about those people.  If it weren't this excuse to be against Israel, they'd find another.  But none of them will be effective in ever destroying the Jewish state.  This pleases me more than I can express :) 

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Black Red Devil
15 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Firstly, the American Embassy is in West Jerusalem, so it has ZERO impact on the "final status issues". 

Secondly, the PLO only made its claim on Jerusalem in the 1970's, in order to spite the Jews, who had claimed it as their capital several thousand years ago, and rekindled their desire to return to it every year in their Yom Kippur prayers. 

Thirdly, the UN actually proposed Jerusalem as an International City. The jews agreed to this - albeit reluctantly. The Arabs rejected it out of hand, just as they rejected the entire UN partition plan, and the possibility of ANY Jewish nation.

So to hell with them. 

As for Russian or Chinese involvement in Palestine.... dude.... the Russians and Chinese - in common with most Arab states - have total contempt for the "Palestinians". They would rather gargle slugs than get involved. 

Firstly, Part of new US embassy site in Jerusalem may be in disputed territory, not West Jerusalem, at least not all of it but INSIDE OCCUPIED TERRITORY.

Secondly and thirdly, several thousand years ago doesn't count.  By your logic the Greeks should be given Istanbul by the international community since it was founded by them and was the capital of the Roman Byzantine Empire for a thousand years.  I wonder how Erdog would feel about that! The Arabs rejected an unfair deal where a small minority of Jews were given most of the land, only someone ultra biased can't see something wrong in this. 

Obviously the Sunni/SA/USA alliance has turned their backs on them in favor of Israel, maybe they should go the Shiitty way.

Edited by Black Red Devil

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RoofGardener
7 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Firstly, Part of new US embassy site in Jerusalem may be in disputed territory, not West Jerusalem, at least not all of it but INSIDE OCCUPIED TERRITORY.

Ohh.. that's interesting Thanks for digging that up BRD. 

Actually, the embassy - according to Palestinian officials - MIGHT be in the 'no mans land' between UN forces and the Jordanians, pre 1967. Alternatively, if you consider it to be in "occupied territory", then it was in territory occupied by aforementioned Jordanians, before Israel liberated it and (initially, anyway) gave it to the Palestinians :D 

7 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Secondly and thirdly, several thousand years ago doesn't count.  By your logic the Greeks should be given Istanbul by the international community since it was founded by them and was the capital of the Roman Byzantine Empire for a thousand years.  I wonder how Erdog would feel about that! The Arabs rejected an unfair deal where a small minority of Jews were given most of the land, only someone ultra biased can't see something wrong in this. 

Hmm.. I'd agree with the former part of that. However, my point remains: Jerusalem was highly desired by the Israeli's for many hundreds - if not thousands - of years, and remembered in their Yom Kippur prayers right up until 1948. (and beyond). 

The Palestinians, on the other hand, didn't care about Jerusalem until Israel stated that it would be the capital of Israel, at which point they suddenly made it the capital of a future Palestinian State. It was pure spite, and a tactic to ensure that there could never be a negotiated settlement. Pure cynicism. 

As for the partition plan; it was the idea of the UN. Are you suggesting that THEY where unfair ? 

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4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Ohh.. that's interesting Thanks for digging that up BRD. 

Actually, the embassy - according to Palestinian officials - MIGHT be in the 'no mans land' between UN forces and the Jordanians, pre 1967. Alternatively, if you consider it to be in "occupied territory", then it was in territory occupied by aforementioned Jordanians, before Israel liberated it and (initially, anyway) gave it to the Palestinians :D 

Hmm.. I'd agree with the former part of that. However, my point remains: Jerusalem was highly desired by the Israeli's for many hundreds - if not thousands - of years, and remembered in their Yom Kippur prayers right up until 1948. (and beyond). 

The Palestinians, on the other hand, didn't care about Jerusalem until Israel stated that it would be the capital of Israel, at which point they suddenly made it the capital of a future Palestinian State. It was pure spite, and a tactic to ensure that there could never be a negotiated settlement. Pure cynicism. 

As for the partition plan; it was the idea of the UN. Are you suggesting that THEY where unfair ? 

I believe that those here who are so fervently against Israel's existence would be willing to see the state totally uprooted and eradicated.  It's actually a hateful obsession and it's one they will never see come to fruition.  Let them hate and squirm.  

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RoofGardener
On 04/11/2018 at 10:22 AM, Phaeton80 said:

Your gloating over the continued bullying, attempts at isolation and general maltreatment of everything Palestinian is truely nauseating. Now cheering on the closing of 'independent channels of information about Palestine'.

Score! :clap:

..Allthewhile ofcourse continuing to passionately wave the victim card around like you are the one being oppressed, occupied, decimated by a massively funded, highly advanced military apparatus. Isnt it fascinating how traumatized victims can turn into the most heinouss criminals, become that which they loathed most (supremacist, ultra nationalist, racist, fascist, genocidal; even employed against Semites). What a sick twist of fate..

 

Speaking of "Victim Cards", there was a spectacular own-goal a few days ago. Palestinian TV showed a picture of dead bodies piled up on the ground, proporting to be dead Arabs following the capture of the village of Al-Dawayima in 1948. 

Except it isn't. It's a picture of dead jews from the Nordhausen concentration camp in 1945. Victim card indeed ! 

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=26613

Ironic, as the Palestinians teach schoolkids that the holocaust never happened !

(oh.. and this is the SECOND time they've tried to pass this particular picture off as being arab bodies. On the previous occasion they claimed the dead "arab" bodies where from Deir Yassin.)

 

Edited by RoofGardener
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third_eye

Yeah, there's a lot of squirming going on ...
 

Quote

 

~

May 3, 2018 - The absence of a theology of the Holy Land says a lot about where the Catholic Church and the Vatican stand with respect to the State of Israel.
 
~
The visit of Pope Francis to Palestine — and his subsequent recognition of the State of Palestine and canonization of two Ottoman-era Palestinian nuns — has ...

 

~

 

Too much of love to hate or too little of hate to love ...

~

Since the Jews would never accept JC as anything more than a misguided rebel against Rome, I guess the Pope would just have to shrug his shoulders and do little else.

~

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and then
10 hours ago, third_eye said:

Since the Jews would never accept JC as anything more than a misguided rebel against Rome, I guess the Pope would just have to shrug his shoulders and do little else.

From what I've seen and heard of this Pope, he can't be fully trusted to accept Christ as the Creator God, either.  That says a lot about the state of modern Catholicism.  JMO, but I believe the entire concept of Jews being the "Chosen" is misunderstood by most, including Jews.  Many Jews today seem to have internalized the scriptures to mean that they are superior to other humans while at the same time being held to the law and the many mitzvahs.  I think that Jacob's descendants were sanctified so that they could represent the entire human race in microcosm.  The rest of humanity was given a single family of people who had special things expected of them.  When they obeyed, they were blessed.  When they disobeyed, they paid a harsh penalty.  I can't imagine another single group of humans on the planet that has been as steadfastly persecuted, hated, and abused than the Jews.  I also believe that their example will continue right into the last gasp of human government before the Christ/Messiah returns to destroy their enemies.  They WILL come to believe in Him at that time because He will fulfill their foretellings as well.  Seeing this, a number too great to count of the remaining Gentiles will also believe.  Those Gentiles will include vast numbers of current Muslims, IMO.  It is not my intention to insult anyone else's faith with this.  I'm just expressing my own.

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third_eye
1 hour ago, and then said:

It is not my intention to insult anyone else's faith with this.  I'm just expressing my own.

Well done Duncan .... that's the spirit

~

As for this ... let's hear it from the Jews and Catholics ...

1 hour ago, and then said:

From what I've seen and heard of this Pope, he can't be fully trusted to accept Christ as the Creator God, either.  That says a lot about the state of modern Catholicism.  JMO, but I believe the entire concept of Jews being the "Chosen" is misunderstood by most, including Jews.  Many Jews today seem to have internalized the scriptures to mean that they are superior to other humans while at the same time being held to the law and the many mitzvahs. 

....

 

Any Jews and Catholics in the house ?

~

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Black Red Devil
21 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Ohh.. that's interesting Thanks for digging that up BRD. 

Actually, the embassy - according to Palestinian officials - MIGHT be in the 'no mans land' between UN forces and the Jordanians, pre 1967. Alternatively, if you consider it to be in "occupied territory", then it was in territory occupied by aforementioned Jordanians, before Israel liberated it and (initially, anyway) gave it to the Palestinians :D 

Hmm.. I'd agree with the former part of that. However, my point remains: Jerusalem was highly desired by the Israeli's for many hundreds - if not thousands - of years, and remembered in their Yom Kippur prayers right up until 1948. (and beyond). 

The Palestinians, on the other hand, didn't care about Jerusalem until Israel stated that it would be the capital of Israel, at which point they suddenly made it the capital of a future Palestinian State. It was pure spite, and a tactic to ensure that there could never be a negotiated settlement. Pure cynicism. 

As for the partition plan; it was the idea of the UN. Are you suggesting that THEY where unfair ? 

In actual fact, the areas they call "no mans land" were not controlled by Jordan (nor Israel) and eventually occupied by Israel after the six day war.  Trump by placing part of the Embassy on occupied land has made a clear statement of intent.  Not good for someone in his position who's supposed to be impartial.  And yes, it's occupied territory, only the US and Israel call it disputed.

I don't know where you're getting this idea they didn't care about Jerusalem.  The Arabs, Christians and Jews have been fighting over it for thousands of years because of religious beliefs but altogether the Arabs probably felt they were the rightful owners of the land after 600 years of Ottoman and Islamic rule.

Now, putting myself in the shoes of the average Palestinian here's how I would see things have unfolded over time.  At the time of Balfour Arabs were by far the majority population, then the British allowed the invasion of Jewish immigrants after WWI and out of guilt, the world gave the Jews their homeland after WWII.  Under Islamic rule the Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace and harmony and there was no reason for a foreign country (Britain) to make the decision to allow mass immigration of Jews into their land.  Furthermore, the Arabs were not responsible for the Jewish Holocaust so why did they have to pay the consequences and concede some of what they regarded as their land (the whole British mandate) for what Europeans did?  The fact the land was eventually split disproportionately between Jews and Arabs was just the final act which understandingly the Arabs rejected and which all started with the creation of Zionism and its influence on the British and US Govts.

 

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third_eye

Best its time to cut and lay that age old myth of Arabs and Jews hell bent on cutting each other up in medieval times to rest in the unmarked grave of discarded lies ...

~

The Jew in the medieval world, a source book, 315-1791, by Jacob R. Marcus Link
 

Quote

 

~

After centuries of silent suffering, the dawn of democracy in America and France spurred the Jews of Germany to hope for emancipation. In 1871, after a tense ...

 

~

 

~

Quote

 

Jacob Rader Marcus was a scholar of Jewish history and a Reform rabbi. Contents .... Sussman, Lance J. "'Historian of the Jewish People': A Historiographical Reevaluation of the Writings of Jacob R. Marcus." American Jewish Archives 50.1/2 ...
Biography · ‎Works · ‎References

 

 

 

~

 

Quote

 

Curt Leviant - 2008 - ‎Religion

... Head of the Captivity," and the Mohammedans call him "Saidna ben Daoud," ... as is due unto him," the Arabic words being "Amilu tarik la Saidna ben Daud.

~

Max I. Dimont - 2004 - ‎Religion

A Jewish traveler, Benjamin of Tudela, Navarre, who visited Baghdad in the ... as is due unto him,” the Arabic words being Amilu tarik la Saidna ben Daoud.

~

Jarbel Rodriguez

... head of the Captivity,” and the Muslims call him “Saidna ben Daoud,” and he ... as is due unto him,” the Arabic words being “Amilu tarik la Saidna ben Daud.

~

 

~

 

Edited by third_eye
wonky links
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RoofGardener
5 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

In actual fact, the areas they call "no mans land" were not controlled by Jordan (nor Israel) and eventually occupied by Israel after the six day war.  Trump by placing part of the Embassy on occupied land has made a clear statement of intent.  Not good for someone in his position who's supposed to be impartial.  And yes, it's occupied territory, only the US and Israel call it disputed.

I don't know where you're getting this idea they didn't care about Jerusalem.  The Arabs, Christians and Jews have been fighting over it for thousands of years because of religious beliefs but altogether the Arabs probably felt they were the rightful owners of the land after 600 years of Ottoman and Islamic rule.

Now, putting myself in the shoes of the average Palestinian here's how I would see things have unfolded over time.  At the time of Balfour Arabs were by far the majority population, then the British allowed the invasion of Jewish immigrants after WWI and out of guilt, the world gave the Jews their homeland after WWII.  Under Islamic rule the Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace and harmony and there was no reason for a foreign country (Britain) to make the decision to allow mass immigration of Jews into their land.  Furthermore, the Arabs were not responsible for the Jewish Holocaust so why did they have to pay the consequences and concede some of what they regarded as their land (the whole British mandate) for what Europeans did?  The fact the land was eventually split disproportionately between Jews and Arabs was just the final act which understandingly the Arabs rejected and which all started with the creation of Zionism and its influence on the British and US Govts.

 

The Jewish immigration HELPED the poorer Arab farmers. The Jews where NOT "safe" under Islamic Rule; they where second class citizens. As for ownership of the land.. well.. there is a VERY interesting article that describes life for the peasant farmer... http://www.zionism-israel.com/hdoc/rural_palestine.htm

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