At least 12 killed at California bar shooting

[Still Waters]

At least 12 people have been killed, including a police officer, at a country music bar in Thousand Oaks, California.

The shooting began at 23:20 local time on Wednesday about 40 miles (65km) north-west of Los Angeles, police say.

At least 200 people were reportedly inside the Borderline Bar and Grill, which was hosting a university student night, at the time of the attack.

Officials say the suspect, who has not been identified, was found dead inside.

They have not yet confirmed any motive behind the attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46135459

[Vorg]

He must have used a shotgun and a pistol with a laser as you cannot confuse the two. My sympathies to the victims.

[freetoroam]

Quote

We've had several contacts with Mr. Long over the years, minor events, a traffic collision. He was a victim of a battery at a local bar in 2015. In April of this year, deputies were called to his house for a subject disturbing. They went to the house, they talked to him. He was somewhat irate. Acting a little irrationally. They called out our crisis intervention team, our mental health specialists who met with him, talked to him and cleared him. Didn't feel he was qualified to be taken under 5150. And he was left at that scene last April," the sheriff said.

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html

They did not talk to him long enough! 

No news here about if he was allowed to keep his gun licence? 

What is the law over there in terms of how many run ins with the law do you need to accumilate before they take away or and check you do not have guns? 

Clearly this guy was a volcano waiting to erupt, how did they not see him bubbling? 

Seems he had some enemies, were any at the bar that night?

[aztek]

12 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

No news here about if he was allowed to keep his gun licence? 

i can't find any where that his guns were legal,  they may not be. also he used extended mag, that is illegal in CA. 

[Piney]

19 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

No news here about if he was allowed to keep his gun licence? 

 

They don't take that unless you are arrested for domestic violence or convicted of a felony. 

[freetoroam]

Quote

There were six off-duty officers from various agencies inside the Borderline Bar & Grill at the time of the shooting, Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said.

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html

Was it frequented by the police often?  It says they were holding a university student night, so were the off duty officers there to drink because they were regulars or were they part of the security and did Long know they were there? 

Trying to find the motive as he shot the bouncer and security guards and an officer. Did he know they would be unarmed if off duty.

No news of anyone being armed and trying to shoot him,  as he shot himself. So the off duty officers were not armed?  What that indicate they were not working as security for the bar? Would security  eg the door man be armed there? 

 

[aztek]

Just now, seanjo said:

Ex-US Marine, PTSD?

could be, or he could be just a nasty angry, violent person regardless of service. some join army with "preexisting conditions".

[aztek]

Just now, freetoroam said:

Was it frequented by the police often?  It says they were holding a university student night, so were the off duty officers there to drink because they were regulars or were they part of the security and did Long know they were there? 

Trying to find the motive as he shot the bouncer and security guards and an officer. Did he know they would be unarmed if off duty.

No news of anyone being armed and trying to shoot him,  as he shot himself. So the off duty officers were not armed?  What that indicate they were not working as security for the bar? Would security  eg the door man be armed there? 

 

lots of bars have no guns policy, guns do not mix well with alcohol, even for cops, so very possible cops had guns in their cars.

[freetoroam]

21 minutes ago, Piney said:

They don't take that unless you are arrested for domestic violence or convicted of a felony. 

He was well known to the police and even though the mental health 'specialist' cleared him, there seemed to be signs he was not the full shilling, does that not constitute to looking at his gun status? 

[freetoroam]

16 minutes ago, aztek said:

lots of bars have no guns policy, guns do not mix well with alcohol, even for cops, so very possible cops had guns in their cars.

Would the bouncer have been armed? Not that that would have helped if he did not see Long coming. so the off duty officers were there just to drink not work,  could Long have known they were there? 

Only asking as to why 6 off duty officers would be at the club on a university student night...again posible Long knew they would be in there and unarmed? 

Edited November 8, 2018 by freetoroam

[Piney]

19 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

He was well known to the police and even though the mental health 'specialist' cleared him, there seemed to be signs he was not the full shilling, does that not constitute to looking at his gun status? 

Nope, this is the Barbaric States of Murica. The NRA won't let gun control laws passed to prevent screwballs from having them.....

******g *******s won't support minority gun rights either......go figure..

[Still Waters]

The BBC keep updating the article in my OP. It's worth checking it now and then for new information.

[SHaYap]

Condolences to all the victims and families ...

~

[toast]

Again. Next mass shootings to come. Routine. Kiss me, 2nd amendment, be my heaven.

[Gunn]

1 hour ago, seanjo said:

Ex-US Marine, PTSD?

Most likely. We've had VETs walk into V.A. parking lots here and shoot themselves in the head, making a permanent statement. Because they couldn't get the help they needed. Just more victims for the failing mental health system we have here.

[freetoroam]

1 hour ago, seanjo said:

Ex-US Marine, PTSD?

Yep.

Quote

Earlier this year, police mental health professionals interviewed and cleared him after sheriffs' deputies found him behaving "irate" and "erratically" at his home, said authorities.

---------

 

Mental health professionals believed that he suffered from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), the sheriff said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46135459

I just do not get how after this and the other run in with the laws, he was still allowed to legally own a gun, maybe because the MH specialists who talked to him thought nothing of it:

Again from previous link:

Quote

They called out our crisis intervention team, our mental health specialists who met with him, talked to him and cleared him. 

So what are they going to do in the future about people who are clearly unstable and their right to own a weapon?  Or does clearing them mean they can instantly keep their guns even though the MH specialists had to be called out as there were concerns? 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by freetoroam

[freetoroam]

10 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Most likely. 

Seems it was

Quote

Mental health professionals believed that he suffered from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder), the sheriff said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46135459

 

12 minutes ago, Gunn said:

We've had VETs walk into V.A. parking lots here and shoot themselves in the head, making a permanent statement. Because they couldn't get the help they needed. Just more victims for the failing mental health system we have here.

This is shocking.

My question is, were they still allowed to legally own a gun and (awful to ask but...) did they use their  legally owned guns to shoot themselves?

Where they diagnosed with PTSD and just left to go home and get on with it....without any questions asked as to if they owned a gun or not?

 

[Gunn]

3 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Seems it was

 

This is shocking.

My question is, were they still allowed to legally own a gun and (awful to ask but...) did they use their  legally owned guns to shoot themselves?

Yeah currently some states still allow legal gun ownership for individuals with mental health problems. As to whether they used their own guns to commit suicide, I couldn't tell you that and be 100% for sure in each case, but I will say it's most likely or probable.

Quote

Where they diagnosed with PTSD and just left to go home and get on with it....without any questions asked as to if they owned a gun or not?

Well in some reported cases they were diagnosed with PTSD along with other mental health issues. The usual treatment they get for it all is just drugs and more drugs with some occasional therapy. But obviously that is not enough for some suffering from PTSD, especially if they got other mental health issues going on. Some VETs really need to be committed, but they won't do it because of state liberty laws.

And there again, like I mentioned - some states still allow legal gun ownership for individuals with mental health problems. So it wouldn't have mattered if they asked or not. Can't take them away under some state laws.

[freetoroam]

8 minutes ago, Gunn said:

And there again, like I mentioned - some states still allow legal gun ownership for individuals with mental health problems. So it wouldn't have mattered if they asked or not. Can't take them away under some state laws

 i believe this is something they will have to look at...seriously.

The examples you have given, and the tragic case here surely should make the law makers begin to question their state laws,  not only for those suffering from mental health issues, but for all those who have become a victim and all those who may be a victim in the future.

Long purchased his gun legally although it was known he had mental issues,  we have duscussed in the past about teenagers who have committed mass shooting, with mental health issues living in a house where the parents owned guns  and the 'argument' was the parents have every right to own them as long as they are propertly locked away,  well in most cases they were not out of reach of the teenagers  ( Santa fe just one example),  majority of those teenagers had problems,  here Long was known to have problems,  he did not need to go looking for his mothers gun, because he was able to go out and buy his own.

Something is seriously wrong between people with mental health issues and their access to guns,  it is far too easy and  no law against it.

[aztek]

Just now, freetoroam said:

 

Something is seriously wrong between people with mental health issues and their access to guns,  it is far too easy and  no law against it.

. well now you see how knee jerk reaction laws that liberals love, (age limit, magazine size limit....etc.)  have absolutely no effect on crime, and mass shootings in reality. they make laws that apply to people that do not go shoot up bars\schools.. yet it does nothing to affect those that do,

Edited November 8, 2018 by aztek

[Gunn]

16 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

 i believe this is something they will have to look at...seriously.

The examples you have given, and the tragic case here surely should make the law makers begin to question their state laws,  not only for those suffering from mental health issues, but for all those who have become a victim and all those who may be a victim in the future.

Long purchased his gun legally although it was known he had mental issues,  we have duscussed in the past about teenagers who have committed mass shooting, with mental health issues living in a house where the parents owned guns  and the 'argument' was the parents have every right to own them as long as they are propertly locked away,  well in most cases they were not out of reach of the teenagers  ( Santa fe just one example),  majority of those teenagers had problems,  here Long was known to have problems,  he did not need to go looking for his mothers gun, because he was able to go out and buy his own.

Something is seriously wrong between people with mental health issues and their access to guns,  it is far too easy and  no law against it.

Well apparently California does have some strict gun laws concerning mental health - recommend reading the first 2 pages;

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/pdf/cfl2016.pdf

So I don't know why they let him purchase them in the first place. I guess somebody wasn't doing their job and was too lax in his case.

[freetoroam]

6 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Well apparently California does have some strict gun laws concerning mental health - recommend reading the first 2 pages;

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/pdf/cfl2016.pdf

So I don't know why they let him purchase them in the first place. I guess somebody wasn't doing their job and was too lax in his case.

Seems the mental health 'specialists' were also pretty lax in this case. 

A lot of laxness considering the history of mass shootings and all the discussions and ralies to do something about it. 

Not everyone has been diagnosed with a mental health issue, but for those who have, there should be no laxing when guns are involved. Did they even bother asking the question, "does he have a gun licence?". 

Edited November 8, 2018 by freetoroam

[Gunn]

29 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Seems the mental health 'specialists' were also pretty lax in this case. 

A lot of laxness considering the history of mass shootings and all the discussions and ralies to do something about it. 

Not everyone has been diagnosed with a mental health issue, but for those who have, there should be no laxing when guns are involved. Did they even bother asking the question, "does he have a gun licence?". 

Do you mean a gun license to own or carry? You definitely haft to have a license to carry in the state of California.

https://lawcenter.giffords.org/concealed-weapons-permitting-in-california/

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Gunn

[aztek]

i do not think you need one to have a shotgun, or a rifle, handguns yes, especially for carry, rifles otoh, only in NYC you need a permit. the rest of the country you do not.

[freetoroam]

10 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Do you mean a gun license to own or carry? You definitely haft to have a license to carry in the state of California.

https://lawcenter.giffords.org/concealed-weapons-permitting-in-california/

 

I mean a licence to own one and go out and buy one. Seems he did.

As for carrying one (with respect to all the victims,)  he was not intending to carry it for long, so a licence to carry one would not have concerned him.