UM-Bot Posted November 10, 2018 #1 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Astronomers have detected a black hole that is spinning so rapidly that it may be causing space itself to rotate. https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/323204/black-hole-may-be-spinning-space-itself 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ossie Posted November 10, 2018 #2 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Interesting article, thanks for posting the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted November 10, 2018 #3 Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, seanjo said: I never know if it's appropriate to thank an algorithm! It might pay later when Sky Net takes over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Allende Posted November 10, 2018 #4 Share Posted November 10, 2018 _(all the other black holes muttering 'show off' behind back)_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ossie Posted November 10, 2018 #5 Share Posted November 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, seanjo said: I never know if it's appropriate to thank an algorithm! I didn't even think about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 10, 2018 #6 Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) A black hole rotating at 90% of the speed of light ? I doubt that somehow. That would make photons on the "surface" of the black hole have greater mass - and in a different time frame - compared to photons near the "centre" of the black hole. I don't see how that could happen ? How are they measuring the rotation speed of a black hole ? Where has the energy come from to make it rotate at such a remarkable speed ? Edited November 10, 2018 by RoofGardener 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted November 10, 2018 #7 Share Posted November 10, 2018 The mass is "only" 10x of our sun, so it's definitely not super massive. I'd expect it to be super massive to twist space. 44 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: That would make photons on the "surface" of the black hole have greater mass Photons don't have mass, unless you measure them. They're just radiation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoopartyJ Posted November 10, 2018 #8 Share Posted November 10, 2018 I thought it was general knowledge 30 years ago that massive blackholes turn all galaxies like water down the drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 11, 2018 #9 Share Posted November 11, 2018 11 hours ago, sci-nerd said: The mass is "only" 10x of our sun, so it's definitely not super massive. I'd expect it to be super massive to twist space. Photons don't have mass, unless you measure them. They're just radiation. Photons have zero mass at rest . However, under normal circumstances they have energy, and therefore they have mass ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted November 11, 2018 #10 Share Posted November 11, 2018 9 hours ago, RoofGardener said: Photons have zero mass at rest . However, under normal circumstances they have energy, and therefore they have mass ! It's not that simple. http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Relativity/SR/light_mass.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seti42 Posted November 11, 2018 #11 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Physics is nuts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDocMartens Posted November 12, 2018 #12 Share Posted November 12, 2018 The article was too short and vague really offer any insight to the subject. It’s as if the author had no idea what any of it meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 12, 2018 #13 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 6:17 AM, RoofGardener said: A black hole rotating at 90% of the speed of light ? I doubt that somehow. That would make photons on the "surface" of the black hole have greater mass - and in a different time frame - compared to photons near the "centre" of the black hole. I don't see how that could happen ? Why not? This already happens with gravity. It just means the photons will have different frequencies. On 11/11/2018 at 6:17 AM, RoofGardener said: How are they measuring the rotation speed of a black hole ? Where has the energy come from to make it rotate at such a remarkable speed ? They're measuring the x-rays emitted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 12, 2018 #14 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rlyeh said: Why not? This already happens with gravity. It just means the photons will have different frequencies. This is FAR too complex for a humble roofgardener to comprehend Are black holes acidic or alkaline ? Edited November 12, 2018 by RoofGardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 12, 2018 #15 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Just now, RoofGardener said: This is FAR too complex for a humble roofgardener to comprehend Basically because photons are massless instead of increasing in mass their frequency is affected. Blue and red shift are examples of relativistic effects on light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 12, 2018 #16 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Rlyeh said: Basically because photons are massless instead of increasing in mass their frequency is affected. Blue and red shift are examples of relativistic effects on light. Yes but... but... if they have energy, surely they have mass ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 12, 2018 #17 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Just now, RoofGardener said: Yes but... but... if they have energy, surely they have mass ? I suppose you could think of it as their energy is relativistic mass. The problem is if they have rest mass photons could not travel at c because then their mass and energy would be infinite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 12, 2018 #18 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: I suppose you could think of it as their energy is relativistic mass. The problem is if they have rest mass photons could not travel at c because then their mass and energy would be infinite. True... but at 'c', they have mass ? Otherwise why would a black hole be black ? Light (photons) must be effected by the mass - and hence gravity - of the black hole. Ergo, photons have mass. I wonder what sort of compost I should use on photons ? Hmmm...... : Edited November 12, 2018 by RoofGardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 12, 2018 #19 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, RoofGardener said: True... but at 'c', they have mass ? Otherwise why would a black hole be black ? Light (photons) must be effected by the mass - and hence gravity - of the black hole. Ergo, photons have mass. I wonder what sort of compost I should use on photons ? Hmmm...... : Photons travel in straight lines but the space they are traveling through can be curved by gravity, that's why you get black holes and gravitational lensing. They're still traveling at c, in the case of black holes they just can't get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 12, 2018 #20 Share Posted November 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, Rlyeh said: Photons travel in straight lines but the space they are traveling through can be curved by gravity, that's why you get black holes and gravitational lensing. They're still traveling at c, in the case of black holes they just can't get out. How could a massless photon be deflected by gravity ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 12, 2018 #21 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: How could a massless photon be deflected by gravity ? Deflected? No, the space is curved so extreme once it enters the black hole it can't escape. The event horizon is where the escape velocity is the speed of light, past that light can't escape. Edited November 12, 2018 by Rlyeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted November 12, 2018 #22 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Space is curved due to the gravitational field of the black hole. The photon travels through this curved space. Ergo the photon is effected by gravity. Ergo the photon has mass ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCC1701 Posted November 12, 2018 #23 Share Posted November 12, 2018 "rotating at 90 percent of the speed of light" I don't trust physicists who talk such utter nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperdyer Posted November 12, 2018 #24 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/10/2018 at 2:30 PM, Piney said: It might pay later when Sky Net takes over. Are you sure it hasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperdyer Posted November 12, 2018 #25 Share Posted November 12, 2018 4 hours ago, NCC1701 said: "rotating at 90 percent of the speed of light" I don't trust physicists who talk such utter nonsense. And why is that nonsense. Do you know something the scientists don't? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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