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Is this Atlantis ... at the coast of Spain?


Van Gorp

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This is a discussion forum, not a blog.

If you want to post videos, give a summary of its contents (for people who can't or won't visit the link) and ask specific questions or state specifically what element in them you want evaluated. 

You know that. Don't give people an excuse to ban you. Again. For exactly this same thing.

--Jaylemurph 

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@jaylemurph

I can appreciate you trying to guide another, but past history indicates that the one you are trying to help is not going to heed your advice.

And personally, Nothing that one has said has any value.

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So what do the last several posts have to do with proving that;

1. Atlantis was real

2. It was located on the coast of Spain.

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10 minutes ago, Trelane said:

So what do the last several posts have to do with proving that;

1. Atlantis was real

2. It was located on the coast of Spain.

What is your position? That the city/nation of Atlantis was a real place, or that it was an allegory of a perfect (almost) society?

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16 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

What is your position? That the city/nation of Atlantis was a real place, or that it was an allegory of a perfect (almost) society?

I believe it was an allegory used for political commentary. Nothing more.

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4 minutes ago, Trelane said:

I believe it was an allegory used for political commentary. Nothing more.

Then, referring to your post # 653, how does one go about 'proving' a fictional tale?

 

I could claim that the Star Trek universe is real, because Captain James T. Kirk (a fictional character) will be born in Iowa ( an actual real place).

The problem, from my POV, is that adherents of a factual Atlantis, fail to grasp that fiction is NOT a modern creation.

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1 hour ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

@jaylemurph

I can appreciate you trying to guide another, but past history indicates that the one you are trying to help is not going to heed your advice.

And personally, Nothing that one has said has any value.

I just want to make sure there's no question Petty knows the rules, so it's clear he's deliberately flouting the TOS, should anyone report him. 

As I pointed out earlier, his previous bannings were for exactly the same thing. That and disrespecting mods. He's already here on sufferance, so it won't take much more for a more perma-ban.

--Jaylemurph 

 

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6 hours ago, Swede said:

He's not:

Rhawn Joseph is an American neuropsychologist and writer known for his controversial views on the origin of life on Earth and the origin of the Universe. Joseph is involved with the pseudojournal Journal of Cosmology and is the author of Astrobiology: The Origins of Life and the Death of Darwinism, published in 2001. In the book he writes that "Contrary to Darwinism … the evidence now clearly indicates, that the evolution of life had been genetically predetermined and precoded…

In 2014, Joseph filed a lawsuit against NASA as he claimed they failed to investigate whether a rock seen on Mars is in fact an alien lifeform.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rhawn_Joseph

Ding, ding...

.

Oh brother.  I remember that lawsuit.  Didn't know it was the same person.  And I don't much like his attitude toward females.

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6 hours ago, Swede said:

He's not:

Rhawn Joseph is an American neuropsychologist and writer known for his controversial views on the origin of life on Earth and the origin of the Universe. Joseph is involved with the pseudojournal Journal of Cosmology and is the author of Astrobiology: The Origins of Life and the Death of Darwinism, published in 2001. In the book he writes that "Contrary to Darwinism … the evidence now clearly indicates, that the evolution of life had been genetically predetermined and precoded…

In 2014, Joseph filed a lawsuit against NASA as he claimed they failed to investigate whether a rock seen on Mars is in fact an alien lifeform.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rhawn_Joseph

Ding, ding...

.

Just what we don't need more of, another hack disseminating his particular brand of stupidity to the human race. :(

cormac

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17 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

In response to a challenge about Pythagorean theorem and string theory, you offer in turn... a blog with no citations referencing the papers they're supposedly discussing, a blog that's incorrect in its analysis of Einstein, and a link to a paper (but not by a mathematician or historian and not in a historical journal) suggesting the Babylonians knew the Pythagorean theorem a thousand years before Pythagoras.

This does not prove your point that String Theory was copied from Pythagoras.  

If anything, it suggests that you have gone down the wrong trail in you exploration of String Theory (and I'm not sure what you think the Babylonians have to do with it.)

There's no logical construct here.  In order to prove your statement, you have to point out which parts of the Pythagorean religion (not theorem) that speaks of the actual formation of the building blocks of the universe... and then you have to go to the foundational papers and show that this was the origin of these ideas and how it was the foundation of S-Matrix theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_string_theory

And then, of course, you can tie S-Matrix theory to String Theory and go from there.

None of the documents you present do this.

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We certainly have digressed on this topic. And all I was attempting to do was to address a question on the identity of the Timaeus, a pythagorean character in the story of Atlantis. How did we end up with these strings attached to a contest? Well, I was never any good at contests...I have never won one. And If I knew before hand that these discussions are contests of sort, I would never have come forth with any opinions of my own, or others'. I'm throwing in the towel, as they say in other contests. Everything I said here about string theory and the connection with Pythagoras I take back. It's been shown that it's not music to my ear anymore. 

I kneel to ask for a pardon, and thank all those that have enlightened me of my errors. I was, once again, pretending to be the teacher around here, when in truth I'm not even a student in this hall of higher knowledge, and am but the janitor.  

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It is so hard to determined if it was Thera  or a  civilization  in  the area of Gades  a small country

 

 To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles facing the country which is now called the region of Gades

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

map-of-gades.jpg

Edited by docyabut2
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19 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Just what we don't need more of, another hack disseminating his particular brand of stupidity to the human race. :(

cormac

Now, now. There are those who would appear to take offense at the use of the term "stupid", no matter how fitting it may be (!).

.

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16 minutes ago, Swede said:

Now, now. There are those who would appear to take offense at the use of the term "stupid", no matter how fitting it may be (!).

.

I’ll send them some cheese. :lol:

cormac

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3 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

I’ll send them some cheese. :lol:

cormac

Harte

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On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 7:35 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

Then, referring to your post # 653, how does one go about 'proving' a fictional tale?

 

I could claim that the Star Trek universe is real, because Captain James T. Kirk (a fictional character) will be born in Iowa ( an actual real place).

The problem, from my POV, is that adherents of a factual Atlantis, fail to grasp that fiction is NOT a modern creation.

I was asking only to try and get the thread back on topic as it had wandered.

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31 minutes ago, Trelane said:

I was asking only to try and get the thread back on topic as it had wandered.

Hi Trelane

Yes and much appreciated as here at the MMAUM ( Mixed Mental Arts of Unexplained Mysteries) we need referees.:lol:

jmccr8

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MMAUM???? Now I'm really confused........:huh:

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7 minutes ago, Piney said:

MMAUM???? Now I'm really confused........:huh:

Hi Piney

You know how it goes wham bam and fudge the facts then counter with documentation for the takedown. Lots of mental gymnastics training and variety of woo fighting forms. Great entertainment.:lol:

jmccr8

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docyabut,

Several versions of an Atlantis-in Spain could have some connection with pharaonic Egypt.   Three different societies in Andalusia Spain thrived at different times; and each of them was contemporary with one of Egypt's three major kingdoms (Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, and New Kingdom).   


Los Millares culture (southeast Andalusia) thrived during Egypt's Old Kingdom.  http://www.spainisculture.com/en/monumentos/almeria/yacimiento_de_los_millares.html   Los Millares was a copper age culture.

 

El Argar A culture (northeast Andalusia, plus Murcia) thrived during Egypt's Middle Kingdom.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argaric_culture#Periodization   El Argar A was a bronze age society.  El Argar A period ended abruptly, ca 1550 BC, and was followed by a less powerful El Argar B culture in northeast Andalusia. 

El Argar A had trading connections with Middle Minoan Crete.  https://minoanatlantis.com/Origin_Sea_Peoples.php

 

After the collapse of Argar A (and after Thera's famous eruption had weakened Crete's trading empire) - the western part of Andalusia (proto-Tartessian society) gradually became the most advanced part of Andalusia.  This proto-Tartessian period in southwest Spain was contemporary with Egypt's New Kingdom. 

 

Edited by atalante
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38 minutes ago, atalante said:

docyabut,

Several versions of an Atlantis-in Spain could have some connection with pharaonic Egypt.   Three different societies in Andalusia Spain thrived at different times; and each of them was contemporary with one of Egypt's three major kingdoms (Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, and New Kingdom).   


Los Millares culture (southeast Andalusia) thrived during Egypt's Old Kingdom.  http://www.spainisculture.com/en/monumentos/almeria/yacimiento_de_los_millares.html   Los Millares was a copper age culture.

 

El Argar A culture (northeast Andalusia, plus Murcia) thrived during Egypt's Middle Kingdom.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argaric_culture#Periodization   El Argar A was a bronze age society.  El Argar A period ended abruptly, ca 1550 BC, and was followed by a less powerful El Argar B culture in northeast Andalusia. 

El Argar A had trading connections with Middle Minoan Crete.  https://minoanatlantis.com/Origin_Sea_Peoples.php

 

After the collapse of Argar A (and after Thera's famous eruption had weakened Crete's trading empire) - the western part of Andalusia (proto-Tartessian society) gradually became the most advanced part of Andalusia.  This proto-Tartessian period in southwest Spain was contemporary with Egypt's New Kingdom. 

 

However, they didn't trade with Egypt and apparently didn't go to war with Greece or Egypt.  Nor did they conquer Greece or Egypt.

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On 4/20/2019 at 7:48 AM, Kenemet said:

However, they didn't trade with Egypt and apparently didn't go to war with Greece or Egypt.  Nor did they conquer Greece or Egypt.


Kenemet,
 
Your statement is partly true, but also partly a sleight. 
 
Middle Minoan Crete's trade left influences on BOTH Middle Kingdom Egypt and also Argar society in Spain.
 
a)  A lot of Middle Minoan pottery was found in the pharonic city Kahun, in Middle Kingdom Egypt. 
 
b), The architecture of La Bastida archaeological site in Spain (Argar culture in Spain) introduced elements of Cretan architecture into Spain. 
 
A "big picture" generalization is easy to recognize, for "why" Middle Minoan Crete would investigate trade in the far west-Mediterranean region at that particular time.  Modern archaeological knowledge has shown that the huge tin mining complex at Kestel/Goltepe (Taurus mountains in Turkey) had been running out of tin shortly before that time, and was being abandoned near that time.
 
Middle Kingdom Egypt did not want to buy imported tin at that time (i.e. before Hyksos invasion of Egypt).  But Middle Minoan Crete could use Spanish tin to create bronze objects, for export (at high prices) into the Aegean region; and then Crete could trade in the Aegean region for whatever objects Middle Kingdom Egypt (i.e. Kahun pharonic city) wanted to import. 
 
Therefore, in effect, Spain did trade with Middle Kingdom Egypt.  
 
 
Edited by atalante
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10 hours ago, atalante said:

Kenemet,
 
Your statement is partly true, but also partly a sleight. 
 
Middle Minoan Crete's trade left influences on BOTH Middle Kingdom Egypt and also Argar society in Spain.
 
a)  A lot of Middle Minoan pottery was found in the pharonic city Kahun, in Middle Kingdom Egypt. 
 
b), The architecture of La Bastida archaeological site in Spain (Argar culture in Spain) introduced elements of Cretan architecture into Spain. 
 
A "big picture" generalization is easy to recognize, for "why" Middle Minoan Crete would investigate trade in the far west-Mediterranean region at that particular time.  Modern archaeological knowledge has shown that the huge tin mining complex at Kestel/Goltepe (Taurus mountains in Turkey) had been running out of tin shortly before that time, and was being abandoned near that time.
 
Middle Kingdom Egypt did not want to buy imported tin at that time (i.e. before Hyksos invasion of Egypt).  But Middle Minoan Crete could use Spanish tin to create bronze objects, for export (at high prices) into the Aegean region; and then Crete could trade in the Aegean region for whatever objects Middle Kingdom Egypt (i.e. Kahun pharonic city) wanted to import. 
 
Therefore, in effect, Spain did trade with Middle Kingdom Egypt.  

But not during the presumed time of Atlantis.  It can be established that there was no culture calling itself Atlantis during that time.

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11 hours ago, Kenemet said:

But not during the presumed time of Atlantis.  It can be established that there was no culture calling itself Atlantis during that time.

That is correct.  Before Solon allegedly coined the concept of "Atlantis", Greeks were using the terminology from Hesiod's Works and Days. 

i.e. When Colaeus discovered the strait of Gibralter (and thus also discovered Spain) ca 640 BC, Colaeus and other Greek people were  still using Hesiod's poetic terminology for far-western territory that bordered the "Ocean".  

 

 

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