docyabut2 Posted August 16, 2019 #1651 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said: You know that’s NOT when Plato placed it. Cormac This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html Plato placed it.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 16, 2019 #1652 Share Posted August 16, 2019 52 minutes ago, docyabut2 said: This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html Plato placed it.:) And you misplaced it. cormac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted August 16, 2019 #1653 Share Posted August 16, 2019 5 hours ago, atalante said: Jay, My paraphrase of archaic Greek geography (and most especially what Plato's contemporaries would understand from 114b) was better than yours. Your paraphrase was completely blank. If you post your paraphrase, I will critique it for you. My ability to translate out of Greek isn’t in question; I’ve done it several times here. More than once correcting you in the process. And there are plenty of people here able to critique my own work. So far, they haven’t. The issue here is whether /you/ can demonstrate competence in the language. Not me. —Jaylemurph 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 16, 2019 #1654 Share Posted August 16, 2019 7 hours ago, jaylemurph said: My ability to translate out of Greek isn’t in question; I’ve done it several times here. More than once correcting you in the process. And there are plenty of people here able to critique my own work. So far, they haven’t. The issue here is whether /you/ can demonstrate competence in the language. Not me. —Jaylemurph Somebody has, Atalante, as he is one of those people here wanting to critique what you boast, the bashing of is ability. And it's fair challenge! But it seems that the naked truth is a clear case of you being reluctant to rise to the occasion, due to failure fear, IMHO. I would certainly like to see you in action, especially after all the actions you have requested of others, and also of myself. If Atalante is such a pushover you accuse him of being, inapt and a nonacademic unworthy for debating you on this forum and on this subject, what's to fear? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 16, 2019 #1655 Share Posted August 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Pettytalk said: Hi Pettytalk Was waiting for a reply when I saw that nekked rooster run by so I thought you may have run into some trouble Hope you are okay and will wait until you have had a chance to clean up. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atalante Posted August 16, 2019 #1656 Share Posted August 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Pettytalk said: Somebody has, Atalante, as he is one of those people here wanting to critique what you boast, the bashing of is ability. And it's fair challenge! But it seems that the naked truth is a clear case of you being reluctant to rise to the occasion, due to failure fear, IMHO. I would certainly like to see you in action, especially after all the actions you have requested of others, and also of myself. If Atalante is such a pushover you accuse him of being, inapt and a nonacademic unworthy for debating you on this forum and on this subject, what's to fear? Pettytalk, In post #1633, Jay said wants to use a dictionary to translate Plato's Critias 114b. Don't let him know that my cards are A.I.3.b. Because if he knows my position, he might fold before showing his hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted August 16, 2019 #1657 Share Posted August 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Pettytalk said: Somebody has, Atalante, as he is one of those people here wanting to critique what you boast, the bashing of is ability. And it's fair challenge! But it seems that the naked truth is a clear case of you being reluctant to rise to the occasion, due to failure fear, IMHO. I would certainly like to see you in action, especially after all the actions you have requested of others, and also of myself. If Atalante is such a pushover you accuse him of being, inapt and a nonacademic unworthy for debating you on this forum and on this subject, what's to fear? Big talk for an illiterate. Try contributing again when you can speak the language. ...you know, the language of the person you keep insisting you are, yet are curiously completely ignorant of. --Jaylemurph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 16, 2019 #1658 Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 hour ago, atalante said: Pettytalk, In post #1633, Jay said wants to use a dictionary to translate Plato's Critias 114b. Don't let him know that my cards are A.I.3.b. Because if he knows my position, he might fold before showing his hand. How can I? He already knows everything, but has only forgotten. As much as I hate to admit it, even a mollusk has a soul. And that is straight out from one of Plato's Atlantis dialogues, the Timaeus. And by the way, for those interested in UFOs and life on other planets, Plato is telling us, indirectly and through the theme of reincarnation, that he knows that life exists on other planets, although he uses the moon and the "instruments of time" metaphorically. Plato's Timaeus. Now, when they should be implanted in bodies by necessity, and be always gaining or losing some part of their bodily substance, then in the first place it would be necessary that they should all have in them one and the same faculty of sensation, arising out of irresistible impressions; in the second place, they must have love, in which pleasure and pain mingle; also fear and anger, and the feelings which are akin or opposite to them; if they conquered these they would live righteously, and if they were conquered by them, unrighteously. He who lived well during his appointed time was to return and dwell in his native star, and there he would have a blessed and congenial existence. But if he failed in attaining this, at the second birth he would pass into a woman, and if, when in that state of being, he did not desist from evil, he would continually be changed into some brute who resembled him in the evil nature which he had acquired, and would not cease from his toils and transformations until he followed the revolution of the same and the like within him, and overcame by the help of reason the turbulent and irrational mob of later accretions, made up of fire and air and water and earth, and returned to the form of his first and better state. Having given all these laws to his creatures, that he might be guiltless of future evil in any of them, the creator sowed some of them in the earth, and some in the moon, and some in the other instruments of time; and when he had sown them he committed to the younger gods the fashioning of their mortal bodies, and desired them to furnish what was still lacking to the human soul, and having made all the suitable additions, to rule over them, and to pilot the mortal animal in the best and wisest manner which they could, and avert from him all but self-inflicted evils................... Thus were created women and the female sex in general. But the race of birds was created out of innocent light-minded men, who, although their minds were directed toward heaven, imagined, in their simplicity, that the clearest demonstration of the things above was to be obtained by sight; these were remodelled and transformed into birds, and they grew feathers instead of hair. The race of wild pedestrian animals, again, came from those who had no philosophy in any of their thoughts, and never considered at all about the nature of the heavens, because they had ceased to use the courses of the head, but followed the guidance of those parts of the soul which are in the breast. In consequence of these habits of theirs they had their front-legs and their heads resting upon the earth to which they were drawn by natural affinity; and the crowns of their heads were elongated and of all sorts of shapes, into which the courses of the soul were crushed by reason of disuse. And this was the reason why they were created quadrupeds and polypods: God gave the more senseless of them the more support that they might be more attracted to the earth. And the most foolish of them, who trail their bodies entirely upon the ground and have no longer any need of feet, he made without feet to crawl upon the earth. The fourth class were the inhabitants of the water: these were made out of the most entirely senseless and ignorant of all, whom the transformers did not think any longer worthy of pure respiration, because they possessed a soul which was made impure by all sorts of transgression; and instead of the subtle and pure medium of air, they gave them the deep and muddy sea to be their element of respiration; and hence arose the race of fishes and oysters, and other aquatic animals, which have received the most remote habitations as a punishment of their outlandish ignorance. These are the laws by which animals pass into one another, now, as ever, changing as they lose or gain wisdom and folly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted August 16, 2019 #1659 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 hours ago, atalante said: Pettytalk, In post #1633, Jay said wants to use a dictionary to translate Plato's Critias 114b. Don't let him know that my cards are A.I.3.b. Because if he knows my position, he might fold before showing his hand. Sweetie, you posting a "paraphrase" of text you don't provide isn't a paraphrase. It's a claim, and a claim you have no evidence to support. There's a very simple way out of this -- choose a text (Aristophanes, perhaps, to make it a real challenge, or a more suitably obscure text like Procopius' on the Buildings, so fewer pesky translations from others?), post it here in the original, and we'll have at. That way, anyone can use Google to confirm whether the translation is original (ie, doesn't appear in any Google search or Google translate results) and we can see the results. No quotes from other sources, no one else doing the work, no "paraphrases." Can't say fairer than that, unless anyone else has a better idea? --Jaylemurph 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 16, 2019 #1660 Share Posted August 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, jaylemurph said: Big talk for an illiterate. Try contributing again when you can speak the language. ...you know, the language of the person you keep insisting you are, yet are curiously completely ignorant of. --Jaylemurph Kalimera! You are not such a good sport, And you are illiterate in the subject of reincarnation. The reincarnation of the soul into another body, as it has been told you, it does not mandate knowing everything known previously in a former body. And I have already admitted to my illiteracy, but it does not diminish nor exclude the very probable fact that I'm an incarnation of Plato's soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 16, 2019 #1661 Share Posted August 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, jaylemurph said: Sweetie, you posting a "paraphrase" of text you don't provide isn't a paraphrase. It's a claim, and a claim you have no evidence to support. There's a very simple way out of this -- choose a text (Aristophanes, perhaps, to make it a real challenge, or a more suitably obscure text like Procopius' on the Buildings, so fewer pesky translations from others?), post it here in the original, and we'll have at. That way, anyone can use Google to confirm whether the translation is original (ie, doesn't appear in any Google search or Google translate results) and we can see the results. No quotes from other sources, no one else doing the work, no "paraphrases." Can't say fairer than that, unless anyone else has a better idea? --Jaylemurph Much more effective would be a face-to-face exchange in real time, and no texts. We can even charge for admission, and the proceeds go to the charity of the winner's choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 16, 2019 #1662 Share Posted August 16, 2019 3 hours ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Pettytalk Was waiting for a reply when I saw that nekked rooster run by so I thought you may have run into some trouble Hope you are okay and will wait until you have had a chance to clean up. jmccr8 Better to be a feathered man, than a naked chicken. The American Indians adorned themselves with feathers, therefore I'm going to take it as a compliment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted August 16, 2019 #1663 Share Posted August 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Pettytalk said: Kalimera! You are not such a good sport, And you are illiterate in the subject of reincarnation. The reincarnation of the soul into another body, as it has been told you, it does not mandate knowing everything known previously in a former body. And I have already admitted to my illiteracy, but it does not diminish nor exclude the very probable fact that I'm an incarnation of Plato's soul. Yes, I am illiterate about most kinds of shams, cons and tomfoolery, and I leave it to fools and shysters like you to be expert in them. --Jaylemurph 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 16, 2019 #1664 Share Posted August 16, 2019 34 minutes ago, Pettytalk said: Much more effective would be a face-to-face exchange in real time, and no texts. We can even charge for admission, and the proceeds go to the charity of the winner's choice. I'd take you up on that offer. 42 minutes ago, Pettytalk said: Kalimera! You are not such a good sport, And you are illiterate in the subject of reincarnation. The reincarnation of the soul into another body, as it has been told you, it does not mandate knowing everything known previously in a former body. And I have already admitted to my illiteracy, but it does not diminish nor exclude the very probable fact that I'm an incarnation of Plato's soul. How can one be literate on something that's complete opinion? Or in your case, a complete lie? I'm more than certain that Jay knows all about the concept of reincarnation, being able to read the Vedic texts on it in the original language. . So how's the Attic Greek going? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 16, 2019 #1665 Share Posted August 16, 2019 38 minutes ago, Pettytalk said: Better to be a feathered man, than a naked chicken. The American Indians adorned themselves with feathers, therefore I'm going to take it as a compliment! You actually have to show some bravery for that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted August 16, 2019 #1666 Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Pettytalk said: Better to be a feathered man, than a naked chicken. The American Indians adorned themselves with feathers, therefore I'm going to take it as a compliment! Hi Pettytalk It wasn't intended as an insult, it was an extended amendment to your attempt at humor. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 16, 2019 #1667 Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 minute ago, jmccr8 said: Hi Pettytalk It wasn't intended as an insult, it was an extended amendment to your attempt at humor. jmccr8 I'll still consider it as a compliment from you, just for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pettytalk Posted August 16, 2019 #1668 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 hours ago, jaylemurph said: Yes, I am illiterate about most kinds of shams, cons and tomfoolery, and I leave it to fools and shysters like you to be expert in them. --Jaylemurph You seem to be the fool, as you should know those subjects best of all, if you want to recognize the real cons, shams, fools and shysters. You may consider yourself one of higher learning, but you lack basic common sense. But tell me, are you adding another title to me? Fool and idiot you and some others have called me several times, but now I'm also a shyster to you, as I had not been labeled that by you before. But tell me, do you really feel superior to those you take as fools and shysters? Do you really think Plato and Socrates were fools and shysters for believing and teaching the reincarnation of the soul? About all those millions upon millions of others who also believe in it? You would do yourself a great favor if you would put your keen interest in learning in the Garden and on the tree of knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil. Or you may, seriously, end up reincarnating into a quadruped in your next cycle of life.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted August 16, 2019 #1669 Share Posted August 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Pettytalk said: You seem to be the fool, as you should know those subjects best of all, if you want to recognize the real cons, shams, fools and shysters. You may consider yourself one of higher learning, but you lack basic common sense. But tell me, are you adding another title to me? Fool and idiot you and some others have called me several times, but now I'm also a shyster to you, as I had not been labeled that by you before. But tell me, do you really feel superior to those you take as fools and shysters? Do you really think Plato and Socrates were fools and shysters for believing and teaching the reincarnation of the soul? About all those millions upon millions of others who also believe in it? You would do yourself a great favor if you would put your keen interest in learning in the Garden and on the tree of knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil. Or you may, seriously, end up reincarnating into a quadruped in your next cycle of life.. Do I feel superior to you? Yes, in terms of conciseness of language and command of facts. Anything else here is, much like yourself, irrelevant. —Jaylemurph 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted August 16, 2019 #1670 Share Posted August 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Pettytalk said: You seem to be the fool, as you should know those subjects best of all, if you want to recognize the real cons, shams, fools and shysters. You may consider yourself one of higher learning, but you lack basic common sense. But tell me, are you adding another title to me? Fool and idiot you and some others have called me several times, but now I'm also a shyster to you, as I had not been labeled that by you before. Pot-Kettle award again. But at least your admitting to being a idiot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted August 16, 2019 #1671 Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Piney said: Pot-Kettle award again. But at least your admitting to being a idiot. What does the [redacted] expect, parading himself as an illiterate Plato? That people would believe him? That sort of activity is the definition of a shyster. —Jaylemurph 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted August 17, 2019 #1672 Share Posted August 17, 2019 21 hours ago, Pettytalk said: Kalimera! You are not such a good sport, And you are illiterate in the subject of reincarnation. The reincarnation of the soul into another body, as it has been told you, it does not mandate knowing everything known previously in a former body. And I have already admitted to my illiteracy, but it does not diminish nor exclude the very probable fact that I'm an incarnation of Plato's soul. So a valid question would be "what are the proofs of being an avatar of a deceased person?" You could have many counter-claimants. How do you reliably know which are correct? After all, we have several mediums around (I posted links once) who talk to Plato and Socrates (which would mean they haven't reincarnated.) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted August 17, 2019 #1673 Share Posted August 17, 2019 22 hours ago, jaylemurph said: Can't say fairer than that, unless anyone else has a better idea? Duel at Dawn? Papyri at 10 paces? Did the Greeks use papyrus, or were they (clay) tablet users? That actually might prove more ballistic, at ten paces... Although to be fair, like Shakespeare, one must really read Timaeus & Critias in the original Klingon, to really appreciate the nuances. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted August 17, 2019 #1674 Share Posted August 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Kenemet said: So a valid question would be "what are the proofs of being an avatar of a deceased person?" You could have many counter-claimants. How do you reliably know which are correct? After all, we have several mediums around (I posted links once) who talk to Plato and Socrates (which would mean they haven't reincarnated.) Not necessarily so. Maybe they called Petty on the phone. Harte 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted August 17, 2019 #1675 Share Posted August 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, Harte said: Maybe they called Petty on the phone. I sincerely hope it was a collect call... 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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