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Is this Atlantis ... at the coast of Spain?


Van Gorp

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9 minutes ago, Trelane said:

So we're now at how elephants are tied into this? Seems like an awful lot of gluing loose threads to make Atlantis a real place Language nuances aside, is there any physical evidence in the area?

Nope

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10 hours ago, atalante said:

Pettytalk,

Crit. 116d indicates that Plato expected his readers to understand the roof of a temple was made from "pseudo-ivory" (elephantinos). 

Critias 116d uses the Greek word "elephantinos", which BOTH the Bury translation for 116d, and the LSJ lexicon's entry for elephantinos  say means "resembling the appearance of ivory", (with 116d indicating more specifically, "for use in buildings, to resemble ivory".  (i.e. The Jowett translation of 116d has used an over-simplification, to appeal to modern readers who only intend to read this 116d passage casually.)

But the translation-problem, as seen at 116d, is not confined to translating just one specific sentence.  Greek language had evolved several nuances from the same original root word, and from the same root concept.  But those word-nuances were not all used identically by all ancient Greek writers.   And then Latin language switched to a completely different word root to mean, specifically, "elephant ivory".

 

a)  "Antlers" from Greece's red deer (cervus elaphus) provided the original concept for Greek language's "elaphas/elephantos, = ivory".   The antlers of this animal are shed annually, and then regrow at a rate of one inch per day.  https://makemesomethingspecial.com/shop/red-deer-antler-plaques/  

Through the concept of synecdoche, a part of the (red deer) animal was connected to the whole animal.

 

Mycenaean era Greeks also obtained local ivory from boars' tusks.

http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/helmets2.htm   (So boars's tusks were also considered as ivory.)

 

b )  "Ivorine" (in English language) refers to something that resembles ivory in appearance, but is not the same as ivory.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=ivorine   An equivalent suffix-distinction allowed the Greek word "elephantinos" to arise in Greek language.  i.e. a word which meant "resembling deer antlers'; or "resembling boar tusks".  (But both of these "-ine" usages were making the original Greek synecdoches even more complex.)

 

 

c)  Ancient Egypt quarried "Elephantine stone", which can be said to "resemble" ivory in appearance. 

http://thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/02files/Egypt_Elephantine_Island.html  Egypt's quarry for this stone was at Elephantine island.    

Critias 116d uses the Greek word "elephantinos", which BOTH the Bury translation for 116d, and also the LSJ lexicon's entry for elephantinos, say meant "resembling the appearance of ivory", (with 116d indicating also, "for use in buildings".

Plato's Greater Hippias 290c discusses "stone that resembles the appearance of ivory", as distinguished separately from "ivory" itself (for use in making a famous statue of Athena).

 

d)  Herodotus visited Egypt, and reported (3.97 and 3.114) hearsay about a gift of "20 huge teeth (odontantas megalous) of animals, with a resemblance to an antler of a deer (elaphas/elephantos)".  Then Herodotus immediately continued with an argument (3.98-3.113) that extrordinary animals commonly exist at the ends of the earth; and in 3.114 Herodotus proposed that the particular animals of 3.97 (which deserve to be called elephants) exist at the western end of the world, in a sunset land.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0125%3Abook%3D3%3Achapter%3D97

 

e)  Rome's Latin language did not want to continue using all the above entangled (ambivalent) nuances that hinge on one Greek word root (originally for deer antlers; and later also for various things that resemble deer antlers in various ways).  So Rome chose a different word root to mean "elephant ivory", while Rome was ruling Egypt.  Rome adapted the ancient Egyptian word abu (meaning "elephant's tooth") in deriving a Latin word the denominate "ivory from elephants". https://www.dictionary.com/e/english-words-pharaohs/

 

My walls are becoming smaller and smaller, as other walls are raised higher.

One pertinent question for both, Atlantis seekers and "allegoralists,"  is this. Did Plato write in a way that was meant to be understood by his own era readers only? Because all this talk about ivory and elephants must have been very clear to those of Plato's time and circles. For us of today, the fact that Plato uses both terms and both, ivory and the main and best source of the ivory, the elephant itself, should put us both sides at ease. Warthogs are a source of ivory too, yes. But not the deer, as antlers are not ivory." However, a cousin, the Elk, according to sources, have two teeth of ivory, as the source stated that they may be/are a remnant of their ancient ancestors' tusks.

I believe that Plato's troublemaker disciple/student, Aristotle, would have criticized and questioned Plato's Critias, if he and others of his times had never heard of elephants. The fact that Aristotle, later on in his life, through his close association with Alexander the Great, had access to knowledge about the Indian elephants, even mentioning and dissecting them in his own writing, and yet never mentioned it in his many observations and criticism of his master's work? But perhaps he did, by it's not extant. May we ever know?

But I'm asking myself why all this fuss about being just ivory and not elephants? Has it to do with the fact that an Atlantis in Spain hypothesis falls apart because there never were, nor are there now, any large number of elephants? Just a few in transit, on their way to Rome. As they say, all roads lead to Rome...even for elephants. Perhaps we will find our way to Atlantis through one of those roads leading to Rome?

When Plato died, he left Athens and spent some years in Asia Minor and the island of Lesbos, then was invited by King Philip of Macedon to Pella (343 B.C.) to be tutor to his young son, Alexander. The advance Aristotle made in his biological studies, especially of marine life, belongs to these years in Asia Minor --but as it now seems, also of his studies of other animals as well, including elephants, even if it raises the question of how he came by them before the campaigns of Alexander.

https://www.asesg.org/PDFfiles/Gajah/22-71-Peris.pdf

 

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On 6/12/2019 at 2:49 AM, Pettytalk said:

My walls are becoming smaller and smaller, as other walls are raised higher.

 

I believe that Plato's troublemaker disciple/student, Aristotle, would have criticized and questioned Plato's Critias, if he and others of his times had never heard of elephants. The fact that Aristotle, later on in his life, through his close association with Alexander the Great, had access to knowledge about the Indian elephants, even mentioning and dissecting them in his own writing, and yet never mentioned it in his many observations and criticism of his master's work? But perhaps he did, by it's not extant. May we ever know? ....

When Plato died, he left Athens and spent some years in Asia Minor and the island of Lesbos, then was invited by King Philip of Macedon to Pella (343 B.C.) to be tutor to his young son, Alexander. The advance Aristotle made in his biological studies, especially of marine life, belongs to these years in Asia Minor --but as it now seems, also of his studies of other animals as well, including elephants, even if it raises the question of how he came by them before the campaigns of Alexander.

https://www.asesg.org/PDFfiles/Gajah/22-71-Peris.pdf

 

Pettytalk,

Aristotle's connections with Hermias of Atarneus led to Aristotle setting up his first "school of philosphy", in Asia Minor; and also involved Philip II of Macedonia, who wanted both Hermias and Aristotle to act as allies of Macedonia, creating a launching pad for Macedonia to invade Asia Minor, to protect the Ionian Greek colonies in Asia Minor (colonies which previously had been seized by the Persian Empire, and then seceded from the Persian Empire).  That period in Asia Minor is when Aristotle would have researched the battle elephants of the Persian empire.  This was before Aristotle was appointed to tutor Alexander the Great.

 

quote from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermias_of_Atarneus#Mature_life

Taking advantage of their past friendship, King Philip ordered Aristotle “to proceed to Asia Minor and join Hermias of Atarneus for political or imperialistic reasons”.[6] Having taken leave from Athens due to rising resentment towards Macedonians as well as the death of Plato in 347 BC, Aristotle agreed to travel to Asia Minor, as requested by King Philip.[2] Accompanied by fellow philosopher Xenocrates, Aristotle received a warm welcome and immediately began establishing political ties between King Philip and Hermias.

One surprising aspect of Hermias's life is the amount of influence Aristotle was able to exert on his decisions. While originally ruling his lands with a strict despotism, Aristotle's arrival in Atarneus was quickly followed by a governmental shift to more Platonic methods, as well as a milder tyranny.[5] Not only did these changes win Hermias the support of neighbouring peoples, they also managed to increase his territory into much of the coastal countryside.[5]

As time passed, Hermias began to fear a Persian invasion of Asia Minor. Indeed, while he had grown up during a period of incompetent Persian leaders and rampant internal conflicts, the ascension of Artaxerxes III Ochus to the throne of Persia in 358 BC promised eventual confrontation as the new king was determined to regain lands lost to revolt and secession from the Persian Empire.[2]

   

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  • 3 weeks later...
31 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

In all the excitement, of course, we somehow forgot the role of the US Department of State in the discovery of Atlantis off Cadiz ...

:lol:

What a car crash!!!! 

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  • 2 weeks later...
 
Homer's worldview, ca 800-750 BC, looked roughly like this (which has been extracted from an 1867 map drawn by William Hughes).  homer's world
 
On the original 1867 map, "Elysium" was the name of the place which is marked "Underworld" in this modern version.   Modern understanding of the Mediterranean shoreline indicates that - the "Underworld/Elysium" in this map represents southern Spain, which had been colonized by Phoenicia, ca 800 BC.  A land bridge, between southern Spain and the rest of Europe, was unknown by Greeks at 800 BC.
 
 
mail?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marefa.org%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc5%2FHomer_world_map-en.svg%2F600px-Homer_world_map-en.svg.png&t=1563227428&ymreqid=3453cafd-c5bc-1b5b-2c9a-750026010000&sig=VYtIrYRe_DoHIXEncuwQ4Q--~C
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"Trinacria" is Sicily.

Harte

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1 hour ago, Harte said:

"Trinacria" is Sicily.

Harte

One would think a working Classicist would know that. 

...and it’s telling his claim about “modern understanding” is citationless. Because, you know, going back to second-Century BCE Alexandria , Classicists /never/ provide citation or references. 

—Jaylemurph 

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47 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:
2 hours ago, Harte said:

"Trinacria" is Sicily.

Harte

One would think a working Classicist would know that

As those of us of pop culture say, where's the beef? Or rather, what's your beef?

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19 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

As those of us of pop culture say, where's the beef? Or rather, what's your beef?

Atalante claims to be a trained Classicist, yet very often his actions and writing make that a suspicious claim. 

I don’t like people who are less than scrupulously honest about academic achievements. I mean, I don’t equate degrees with learning — there are plenty of people here with knowledge that far surpasses my own and who have no need of dead sheep to prove it — but I do resent people who claim to have degrees or specialist knowledge but are being dishonest. If they want the glory or recognition or whatever, they need to have put in the work. 

[cough followed by pointed silence]

But you wouldn’t know anything about that, would you, Mister “I’m Plato but don’t know Ancient Greek”?

—Jaylemurph 

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1 hour ago, jaylemurph said:

Atalante claims to be a trained Classicist, yet very often his actions and writing make that a suspicious claim. 

I don’t like people who are less than scrupulously honest about academic achievements. I mean, I don’t equate degrees with learning — there are plenty of people here with knowledge that far surpasses my own and who have no need of dead sheep to prove it — but I do resent people who claim to have degrees or specialist knowledge but are being dishonest. If they want the glory or recognition or whatever, they need to have put in the work. 

[cough followed by pointed silence]

But you wouldn’t know anything about that, would you, Mister “I’m Plato but don’t know Ancient Greek”?

—Jaylemurph 

You specifically cited harte's comment that Trinacria was Sicily, to then state that he (Atalante) should have known that. In other words, you insinuated that Atalante, in his post showing the map, was not aware that Sicily was also known as Trinacria.

As far as your cough, try homeopathic Drosera, as it is indicated in whooping cough, since a cough followed by silence sounds like a bout of whooping cough to me.

Regarding my language abilities, we will leave it for another time and another place. But as I had commented much earlier, one must be familiar with reincarnation, and especially as put forth by Socrates, through Plato. A soul, of necessity, must be different in another reincarnation. Meaning that most of our former abilities, skills, and traits are not carried forward, for the most part. One may retain some recollection of vague and cloudy memories. Sometimes these memories are buried too deep in our subconscious, but may come to the surface unexpectedly, by some chance of running into an object, or a person, a place, or even a writing that are familiar from a previous life. 

Therefore, merely not being able to recollect in this life something known in a previous one, like a language, for instance, it would not necessarily exclude someone from having been, in a previous life, one who was proficient in that language. Someone who today does not speak French, nor has any military skills, does not exclude the possibility that he had been Napoleon Bonaparte in a previous life. In fact, one does not even have to be the same sex. Which I consider as a most likely cause for homosexuality, as the soul is sexless, and can incarnate in either gender, but sometimes it retains too much of a subconscious memory of a previous life of the opposite sex. And also, if we adhere to the words of Plato, a soul can take on the form of an animal. We have all probably been animals in one or more of our previous lives, but we may not recall being a monkey, a donkey, a horse, a duck, an eagle, or a lion.

Here, I'll cite what I have already cited to kenemet, and some more, on Plato's take on reincarnation. So that it will not be snipped by the real gods of this virtual world, t's from Jowett's English translation of Plato's Republic dialogue.  http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.html

When Er and the spirits arrived, their duty was to go at once to Lachesis; but first of all there came a prophet who arranged them in order; then he took from the knees of Lachesis lots and samples of lives, and having mounted a high pulpit, spoke as follows: 'Hear the word of Lachesis, the daughter of Necessity. Mortal souls, behold a new cycle of life and mortality. Your genius will not be allotted to you, but you choose your genius; and let him who draws the first lot have the first choice, and the life which he chooses shall be his destiny. Virtue is free, and as a man honours or dishonours her he will have more or less of her; the responsibility is with the chooser --God is justified.' When the Interpreter had thus spoken he scattered lots indifferently among them all, and each of them took up the lot which fell near him, all but Er himself (he was not allowed), and each as he took his lot perceived the number which he had obtained. Then the Interpreter placed on the ground before them the samples of lives; and there were many more lives than the souls present, and they were of all sorts. There were lives of every animal and of man in every condition. And there were tyrannies among them, some lasting out the tyrant's life, others which broke off in the middle and came to an end in poverty and exile and beggary; and there were lives of famous men, some who were famous for their form and beauty as well as for their strength and success in games, or, again, for their birth and the qualities of their ancestors; and some who were the reverse of famous for the opposite qualities. And of women likewise; there was not, however, any definite character them, because the soul, when choosing a new life, must of necessity become different. But there was every other quality, and the all mingled with one another, and also with elements of wealth and poverty, and disease and health; and there were mean states also. And here, my dear Glaucon, is the supreme peril of our human state; and therefore the utmost care should be taken. Let each one of us leave every other kind of knowledge and seek and follow one thing only, if peradventure he may be able to learn and may find some one who will make him able to learn and discern between good and evil, and so to choose always and everywhere the better life as he has opportunity. He should consider the bearing of all these things which have been mentioned severally and collectively upon virtue; he should know what the effect of beauty is when combined with poverty or wealth in a particular soul, and what are the good and evil consequences of noble and humble birth, of private and public station, of strength and weakness, of cleverness and dullness, and of all the soul, and the operation of them when conjoined; he will then look at the nature of the soul, and from the consideration of all these qualities he will be able to determine which is the better and which is the worse; and so he will choose, giving the name of evil to the life which will make his soul more unjust, and good to the life which will make his soul more just; all else he will disregard. For we have seen and know that this is the best choice both in life and after death. A man must take with him into the world below an adamantine faith in truth and right, that there too he may be undazzled by the desire of wealth or the other allurements of evil, lest, coming upon tyrannies and similar villainies, he do irremediable wrongs to others and suffer yet worse himself; but let him know how to choose the mean and avoid the extremes on either side, as far as possible, not only in this life but in all that which is to come. For this is the way of happiness.

And according to the report of the messenger from the other world this was what the prophet said at the time: 'Even for the last comer, if he chooses wisely and will live diligently, there is appointed a happy and not undesirable existence. Let not him who chooses first be careless, and let not the last despair.' And when he had spoken, he who had the first choice came forward and in a moment chose the greatest tyranny; his mind having been darkened by folly and sensuality, he had not thought out the whole matter before he chose, and did not at first sight perceive that he was fated, among other evils, to devour his own children. But when he had time to reflect, and saw what was in the lot, he began to beat his breast and lament over his choice, forgetting the proclamation of the prophet; for, instead of throwing the blame of his misfortune on himself, he accused chance and the gods, and everything rather than himself. Now he was one of those who came from heaven, and in a former life had dwelt in a well-ordered State, but his virtue was a matter of habit only, and he had no philosophy. And it was true of others who were similarly overtaken, that the greater number of them came from heaven and therefore they had never been schooled by trial, whereas the pilgrims who came from earth, having themselves suffered and seen others suffer, were not in a hurry to choose. And owing to this inexperience of theirs, and also because the lot was a chance, many of the souls exchanged a good destiny for an evil or an evil for a good. For if a man had always on his arrival in this world dedicated himself from the first to sound philosophy, and had been moderately fortunate in the number of the lot, he might, as the messenger reported, be happy here, and also his journey to another life and return to this, instead of being rough and underground, would be smooth and heavenly. Most curious, he said, was the spectacle --sad and laughable and strange; for the choice of the souls was in most cases based on their experience of a previous life. There he saw the soul which had once been Orpheus choosing the life of a swan out of enmity to the race of women, hating to be born of a woman because they had been his murderers; he beheld also the soul of Thamyras choosing the life of a nightingale; birds, on the other hand, like the swan and other musicians, wanting to be men. The soul which obtained the twentieth lot chose the life of a lion, and this was the soul of Ajax the son of Telamon, who would not be a man, remembering the injustice which was done him the judgment about the arms. The next was Agamemnon, who took the life of an eagle, because, like Ajax, he hated human nature by reason of his sufferings. About the middle came the lot of Atalanta; she, seeing the great fame of an athlete, was unable to resist the temptation: and after her there followed the soul of Epeus the son of Panopeus passing into the nature of a woman cunning in the arts; and far away among the last who chose, the soul of the jester Thersites was putting on the form of a monkey. There came also the soul of Odysseus having yet to make a choice, and his lot happened to be the last of them all. Now the recollection of former tolls had disenchanted him of ambition, and he went about for a considerable time in search of the life of a private man who had no cares; he had some difficulty in finding this, which was lying about and had been neglected by everybody else; and when he saw it, he said that he would have done the had his lot been first instead of last, and that he was delighted to have it. And not only did men pass into animals, but I must also mention that there were animals tame and wild who changed into one another and into corresponding human natures --the good into the gentle and the evil into the savage, in all sorts of combinations.

All the souls had now chosen their lives, and they went in the order of their choice to Lachesis, who sent with them the genius whom they had severally chosen, to be the guardian of their lives and the fulfiller of the choice: this genius led the souls first to Clotho, and drew them within the revolution of the spindle impelled by her hand, thus ratifying the destiny of each; and then, when they were fastened to this, carried them to Atropos, who spun the threads and made them irreversible, whence without turning round they passed beneath the throne of Necessity; and when they had all passed, they marched on in a scorching heat to the plain of Forgetfulness, which was a barren waste destitute of trees and verdure; and then towards evening they encamped by the river of Unmindfulness, whose water no vessel can hold; of this they were all obliged to drink a certain quantity, and those who were not saved by wisdom drank more than was necessary; and each one as he drank forgot all things. Now after they had gone to rest, about the middle of the night there was a thunderstorm and earthquake, and then in an instant they were driven upwards in all manner of ways to their birth, like stars shooting. He himself was hindered from drinking the water. But in what manner or by what means he returned to the body he could not say; only, in the morning, awaking suddenly, he found himself lying on the pyre.

And thus, Glaucon, the tale has been saved and has not perished, and will save us if we are obedient to the word spoken; and we shall pass safely over the river of Forgetfulness and our soul will not be defiled. Wherefore my counsel is that we hold fast ever to the heavenly way and follow after justice and virtue always, considering that the soul is immortal and able to endure every sort of good and every sort of evil. Thus shall we live dear to one another and to the gods, both while remaining here and when, like conquerors in the games who go round to gather gifts, we receive our reward. And it shall be well with us both in this life and in the pilgrimage of a thousand years which we have been describing.

 

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9 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

One would think a working Classicist would know that. 

...and it’s telling his claim about “modern understanding” is citationless. Because, you know, going back to second-Century BCE Alexandria , Classicists /never/ provide citation or references. 

—Jaylemurph 

I don't know that he didn't know it. I just provided the info to bring the map into a better perspective.

Pointing out Sicily illustrates the real lack of knowledge about the broader Mediterranean evinced in the map.

Harte

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7 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

In fact, one does not even have to be the same sex. Which I consider as a most likely cause for homosexuality, as the soul is sexless, and can incarnate in either gender, but sometimes it retains too much of a subconscious memory of a previous life of the opposite sex.

You should really study some physiology.

It's genetics and hormones. Not "past life memory". 

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11 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

One would think a working Classicist would know that. 

...and it’s telling his claim about “modern understanding” is citationless. Because, you know, going back to second-Century BCE Alexandria , Classicists /never/ provide citation or references. 

—Jaylemurph 

My post was likely clear enough to normal readers.

"Modern understanding of the Mediterranean shoreline indicates that - [Because] A land bridge, between southern Spain and the rest of Europe, was unknown by Greeks at 800 BC - the "Underworld/Elysium" in this map represents southern Spain, which had been colonized by Phoenicia, ca 800 BC."

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1 hour ago, atalante said:

My post was likely clear enough to normal readers.

"Modern understanding of the Mediterranean shoreline indicates that - [Because] A land bridge, between southern Spain and the rest of Europe, was unknown by Greeks at 800 BC - the "Underworld/Elysium" in this map represents southern Spain, which had been colonized by Phoenicia, ca 800 BC."

What is your evidence of this claim of Elysium being southern Spain? 

cormac

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4 hours ago, atalante said:

My post was likely clear enough to normal readers.

"Modern understanding of the Mediterranean shoreline indicates that - [Because] A land bridge, between southern Spain and the rest of Europe, was unknown by Greeks at 800 BC - the "Underworld/Elysium" in this map represents southern Spain, which had been colonized by Phoenicia, ca 800 BC."

Well, it was clear enough you didn’t understand the details of a reconstructed map and were deliberately trying to pass of your unsupported, purely personal “theory” as “modern understanding.”

And that’s all we really need to know. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Looks more like Sardinia to me:

image.png.2a3c14f941e2025fff9932f65729d496.png

mail?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marefa.org%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc5%2FHomer_world_map-en.svg%2F600px-Homer_world_map-en.svg.png&t=1563227428&ymreqid=3453cafd-c5bc-1b5b-2c9a-750026010000&sig=VYtIrYRe_DoHIXEncuwQ4Q--~C

Harte

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On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 5:59 PM, atalante said:
 
Homer's worldview, ca 800-750 BC, looked roughly like this (which has been extracted from an 1867 map drawn by William Hughes).  homer's world
 
On the original 1867 map, "Elysium" was the name of the place which is marked "Underworld" in this modern version.   Modern understanding of the Mediterranean shoreline indicates that - the "Underworld/Elysium" in this map represents southern Spain, which had been colonized by Phoenicia, ca 800 BC.  A land bridge, between southern Spain and the rest of Europe, was unknown by Greeks at 800 BC.
 
 
mail?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marefa.org%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc5%2FHomer_world_map-en.svg%2F600px-Homer_world_map-en.svg.png&t=1563227428&ymreqid=3453cafd-c5bc-1b5b-2c9a-750026010000&sig=VYtIrYRe_DoHIXEncuwQ4Q--~C

Gee that map also drawn it out, Spain was a island near Gades:)

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3 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Gee that map also drawn it out, Spain was a island near Gades:)

So the Pyrenees mountain range just don't exist in your world ? :wacko:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrenees

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26 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

So the Pyrenees mountain range just don't exist in your world ? :wacko:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrenees

The mountains in the story was surrounding the cities of Atlantis to the sea  

rivers-sized1.png

The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north. The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts, abundant for each and every kind of work.

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

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1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

The mountains in the story was surrounding the city of  Atlantis to the sea  

rivers-sized1.png

 

Atlantis was supposedly an island and Spain quite clearly isn't. The Pyrenees are millions of years old.

If Spain was Atlantis, why do we have absolutely no acheological finds suggesting a great empire there ?

Why is it that Atlantis believers claim that Plato's story was real, and then proceed to discard most of what Plato actually wrote ? I don't get it.

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12 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Atlantis was supposedly an island and Spain quite clearly isn't. The Pyrenees are millions of years old.

If Spain was Atlantis, why do we have absolutely no acheological finds suggesting a great empire there ?

Why is it that Atlantis believers claim that Plato's story was real, and then proceed to discard most of what Plato actually wrote ? I don't get it.

 

12 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Atlantis was supposedly an island and Spain quite clearly isn't. The Pyrenees are millions of years old.

If Spain was Atlantis, why do we have absolutely no acheological finds suggesting a great empire there ?

Why is it that Atlantis believers claim that Plato's story was real, and then proceed to discard most of what Plato actually wrote ? I don't get it.

The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north. The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts, abundant for each and every kind of work.

 

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

rivers-sized1.png

the mountains

This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north.

 

Edited by docyabut2
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1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

 

The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north. The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts, abundant for each and every kind of work.

 

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

You quoted Plato while at the same time completely ignoring the fact that Spain isn't an island, despite Plato clearly saying that it was. Thank you for confirming what I just wrote.

7 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Why is it that Atlantis believers claim that Plato's story was real, and then proceed to discard most of what Plato actually wrote ? I don't get it.

 

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10 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

The whole country was said by him to be very lofty and precipitous on the side of the sea, but the country immediately about and surrounding the city was a level plain, itself surrounded by mountains which descended towards the sea; it was smooth and even, and of an oblong shape, extending in one direction three thousand stadia, but across the centre inland it was two thousand stadia. This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north. The surrounding mountains were celebrated for their number and size and beauty, far beyond any which still exist, having in them also many wealthy villages of country folk, and rivers, and lakes, and meadows supplying food enough for every animal, wild or tame, and much wood of various sorts, abundant for each and every kind of work.

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

rivers-sized1.png

Yet you continuously ignore very important points concerning Plato’s Atlantis: 

1)  Atlantis was claimed to be over half the size of the Iberian Peninsula 

2)  Atlantis, IN ITS ENTIRETY, is claimed to have subsided into the sea

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt
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5 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Atlantis was supposedly an island and Spain quite clearly isn't. The Pyrenees are millions of years old.

If Spain was Atlantis, why do we have absolutely no acheological finds suggesting a great empire there ?

Why is it that Atlantis believers claim that Plato's story was real, and then proceed to discard most of what Plato actually wrote ? I don't get it.

 

4 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

You quoted Plato while at the same time completely ignoring the fact that Spain isn't an island, despite Plato clearly saying that it was. Thank you for confirming what I just wrote.

 

well in the story it was all next to Gades

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