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Van Gorp

Is this Atlantis ... at the coast of Spain?

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docyabut2

220px-Iberia_Bronze.gifThe Horizon of Atalaia was the apogee of this culture

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jaylemurph
1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

220px-Iberia_Bronze.gifThe Horizon of Atalaia was the apogee of this culture

It’s still plagiarism—that is lying and stealing in the same act — to post the work of others without due credit. 

And it’s not like you don’t know that. You choose to do those things. 

—Jaylemurph 

Edited by jaylemurph

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docyabut2

Horizon of Atalaia (c. 1500–1100 BCE): that introduces the grabsystem tombs, being contemporary of El Argar B but continuing after its end. It is in this phase when the culture extends to Extremadura and Western Andalusia. From 17th to 13th centuries BC (c. 1600-c. 1300 BC[2]), Middle Bronze Age 'Alentejo' stelae (Alentejanas) with representations of types of weapons and other warriors' accoutrements were erected mainly in south Portugal.[1] The burials associated with these Alentejanas often have a circular or sub-circular pavement at the surface with the burial in a stone cist cut through the middle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South-Western_Iberian_Bronze

 

Edited by docyabut2

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docyabut2

Wish I could find those old pictures  of  Tartessos  chariot's made with silver all over them.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
5 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

That is a model, it is quite far from Tartessos, it's not an island, it's way too small, it's on the wrong side of the Pillars, its too young to fit Plato's desciption etc.

I expect we will see this image repeatedly anyway. :rolleyes:

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atalante
23 hours ago, Harte said:

Didn't the Phoenicians come somewhat later than the Atlanteans?

Is there a Semitic myth concerning Atlantis?

The term Jazīrat means "island" OR "peninsula," depending on context.

Also, the term "island" was used as it sometimes is today to indicate an isolated group, either physically such as Jazīrat Ibn ʿUmar (a "peninisula" on the Tigris river - not an island) or culturally, which (I suspect) is the usage for the Arabian Peninsula.

You seem to imply that Solon got the wrong Semitic word from his Sais visit, or that the Egyptians got it wrong from the Phoenicians. Have you any trace of either a Phoenician or Egyptian use of this word that means both "island" and "peninsula?"

I see no such double usage in Hebrew, where the term "island" only refers to coastal regions.

Harte

 

The medieval Islamic empire was governed as various autonomous "islands".

For example, the Moslem empire called northwest Africa the "island of Maghrib",   jazīrat al-Maghrib.  Modern political science still recognizes this concept, as evidenced by a seminar in 2016:  https://pomeps.org/2015/10/26/call-for-papers-jazirat-al-maghrib-north-africa-as-an-island/

After Moslem Magrib people invaded and conquered southern Spain in the middle ages, Spain became known among Moslems as jazīrat al-Andalus (island of Andalusia).

 

The Hebrew triliteral verb "gazar" carried a similar basic meaning of "cut off", according to my concordance of the Hebrew bible.  (note:  g and j can interchange with each other in various Arabic dialects; thus presumably a transition could have been gazar, jazar, jazira )  But it seems the bible did not adapt the Hebrew root gazar to mean an island.

 

I am not suggesting that Solon's Egyptian acquaintances gave Solon a new and "mistaken" name "island".  The early Greek writer Hesiod had already done that for educated Greek society.  Hesiod (ca. 650 BC) had named the Mediterranean places west of Lake Tritonis (generically speaking) as "Islands of the Blessed".  Homer and Hesiod would have been influenced by Semitic Phoenician rumors. Then ca. 640 BC the Greek explorer Colaeus discovered the strait of Gibralter.  Then ca. 570 BC Solon visited Egypt.

The storyline of Plato's Atlantis dialogues involved finding early Egyptian legends about the places that Hesiod had called "Islands of the Blessed".

Edited by atalante

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docyabut2

If the story of  Atlantis is true its only has to be

 To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles facing the country which is now called the region of Gades

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

map-of-gades.jpg

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jaylemurph

Did you notice how nobody posted on this thread for almost a week? Some people might take that as a hint. 

—Jaylemurph 

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docyabut2
53 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Did you notice how nobody posted on this thread for almost a week? Some people might take that as a hint. 

—Jaylemurph 

So what is there any other country facing that small country called Gades ? I`m still on the records of Plato on Atlantis.:)

Edited by docyabut2

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jaylemurph
1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

So what is there any other country facing that small country called Gades ? I`m still on the records of Plato on Atlantis.:)

Well, you're "on the records" of the bits and pieces of out-of-date translations that you cherry-pick to form an incoherent argument in the teeth of advice of experts.

All of which is irrelevant to my point: no one but you cares about this **** and no one has posted for days til you tried to gin up interest.

--Jaylemurph

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docyabut2

 Ok so how can anyone pick another country facing that small country called Gades ? unless there is a small island called Gades in the Aegean Sea.

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Peter Cox
On 3/23/2019 at 3:47 AM, docyabut2 said:

 Ok so how can anyone pick another country facing that small country called Gades ? unless there is a small island called Gades in the Aegean Sea.

This is pure madness. All your ideas (and yes you swing from pillar to post all the time) cannot be Atlantis. None of them, now ill type that again in big letters NONE of them match Plato's size, description and age. So you are saying Plato was right there was a place called Atlantis but wrong about everything else. So in essence you are debunking the only source of the story of Atlantis. 

Well done for in your own special way adding more credibility to the argument that Atlantis was never a real place. 

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docyabut2
19 hours ago, Peter Cox said:

This is pure madness. All your ideas (and yes you swing from pillar to post all the time) cannot be Atlantis. None of them, now ill type that again in big letters NONE of them match Plato's size, description and age. So you are saying Plato was right there was a place called Atlantis but wrong about everything else. So in essence you are debunking the only source of the story of Atlantis. 

Well done for in your own special way adding more credibility to the argument that Atlantis was never a real place. 

I believe that Atlantis was a real place:)

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Sir Wearer of Hats
On 23/03/2019 at 11:47 AM, docyabut2 said:

 Ok so how can anyone pick another country facing that small country called Gades ? unless there is a small island called Gades in the Aegean Sea.

We don’t need to because we don’t believe Atlantis to be anything other than an allegory invented by Plato. You need to because you insist Plato was writing about a real place, except, it seems for all the bits he made up.

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Peter Cox
2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I believe that Atlantis was a real place:)

Based on what you have posted, you believe Atlantis to be EVERY place. I think we on location 20+ from you now.

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Jodie.Lynne

Can we let this thread just wither away?

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LucidElement
On 11/17/2018 at 11:40 AM, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Atlantis is amazing. It manages to exist simultaniuosly on all continents and in every ocean and large body of water without ever having actually existed at all.

I was literally literally going to say the same thing hahha.

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Pettytalk

It's amazing how anyone gets beaten down when they propose some kind of reality to Plato's Atlantis. And even after the most logical arguments against it prevail, still they keep on insisting...mostly on feelings and little or no facts to back up the feelings.

And as I have already stated, it's still more amazing how any thread on Atlantis gets beat around to no end. It's a never ending and changing story of those that propose and of those that depose. And the BEAT Goes On and on and on....

Atlantis, you will never Rest In Peace as long as you attract wishful minds, and at the same time also lay lifeless somewhere in academic brains.

 

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jaylemurph

What's amazing is the number of Atlantidiots who only ever read the two (one, really) pieces by Plato that refer directly to Atlantis and then try to pass themselves off as experts on what Plato meant.

--Jaylemurph 

Edited by jaylemurph
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Piney
1 hour ago, jaylemurph said:

 Atlantidiots

I've been trying to pronounce this...

At lant id i ots....

At lan ti di ots....

At lan tid iots....

Meh....I give up....

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
1 hour ago, jaylemurph said:

What's amazing is the number of Atlantidiots who only ever read the two (one, really) pieces by Plato that refer directly to Atlantis and then try to pass themselves off as experts on what Plato meant.

--Jaylemurph 

I would love to see Plato's reaction to all of the interpretations of his story. Sadly I don't have a time machine.

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jaylemurph
19 minutes ago, Piney said:

I've been trying to pronounce this...

At lant id i ots....

At lan ti di ots....

At lan tid iots....

Meh....I give up....

The last one.

I think.

It's the contempt that matters, not the pronunciation.

--Jaylemurph

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Harte
9 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

It's amazing how anyone gets beaten down when they propose some kind of reality to Plato's Atlantis.

Please point out where anyone has been beaten down for merely proposing some kind of reality to Plato's story.

No, people get beat down when they propose ridiculous things about Plato's story while ignoring the large majority of what Plato said.

9 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

And even after the most logical arguments against it prevail, still they keep on insisting...mostly on feelings and little or no facts to back up the feelings.

I would agree that this is exactly what most Atlantis proponents on this forum do - and constantly.

Harte

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