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Van Gorp

Is this Atlantis ... at the coast of Spain?

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docyabut2
2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

You know that’s NOT when Plato placed it. 

Cormac

This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

 

Plato placed it.:)

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cormac mac airt
52 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

 

Plato placed it.:)

And you misplaced it. 

cormac

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jaylemurph
5 hours ago, atalante said:

Jay,

My paraphrase of archaic Greek geography (and most especially what Plato's contemporaries would understand from 114b) was better than yours.  Your paraphrase was completely blank.  If you post your paraphrase, I will critique it for you.

My ability to translate out of Greek isn’t in question; I’ve done it several times here. More than once correcting you in the process. And there are plenty of people here able to critique my own work. So far, they haven’t. 

The issue here is whether /you/ can demonstrate competence in the language. Not me. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Pettytalk
7 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

My ability to translate out of Greek isn’t in question; I’ve done it several times here. More than once correcting you in the process. And there are plenty of people here able to critique my own work. So far, they haven’t. 

The issue here is whether /you/ can demonstrate competence in the language. Not me. 

—Jaylemurph 

Somebody has, Atalante, as he is one of those people here wanting to critique what you boast, the bashing of is ability. And it's fair challenge! But it seems that the naked truth is a clear case of you being reluctant to rise to the occasion, due to failure fear, IMHO. I would certainly like to see you in action, especially after all the actions you have requested of others, and also of myself.

If Atalante is such a pushover you accuse him of being, inapt and a nonacademic unworthy for debating you on this forum and on this subject, what's to fear?

 

naked-chicken-is-naked_o_900893.jpg

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jmccr8
5 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

 

 

naked-chicken-is-naked_o_900893.jpg

Hi Pettytalk

Was waiting for a reply when I saw that nekked rooster run by so I thought you may have run into some troubleTarred and feathered

Hope you are okay and will wait until you have had a chance to clean up.

jmccr8

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atalante
6 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Somebody has, Atalante, as he is one of those people here wanting to critique what you boast, the bashing of is ability. And it's fair challenge! But it seems that the naked truth is a clear case of you being reluctant to rise to the occasion, due to failure fear, IMHO. I would certainly like to see you in action, especially after all the actions you have requested of others, and also of myself.

If Atalante is such a pushover you accuse him of being, inapt and a nonacademic unworthy for debating you on this forum and on this subject, what's to fear?

 

naked-chicken-is-naked_o_900893.jpg


Pettytalk,

In post #1633, Jay said wants to use a dictionary to translate Plato's Critias 114b. 

Don't let him know that my cards are A.I.3.b.  Because if he knows my position, he might fold before showing his hand. 

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jaylemurph
8 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Somebody has, Atalante, as he is one of those people here wanting to critique what you boast, the bashing of is ability. And it's fair challenge! But it seems that the naked truth is a clear case of you being reluctant to rise to the occasion, due to failure fear, IMHO. I would certainly like to see you in action, especially after all the actions you have requested of others, and also of myself.

If Atalante is such a pushover you accuse him of being, inapt and a nonacademic unworthy for debating you on this forum and on this subject, what's to fear?

 

naked-chicken-is-naked_o_900893.jpg

Big talk for an illiterate. Try contributing again when you can speak the language.

...you know, the language of the person you keep insisting you are, yet are curiously completely ignorant of. 

--Jaylemurph 

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Pettytalk
1 hour ago, atalante said:


Pettytalk,

In post #1633, Jay said wants to use a dictionary to translate Plato's Critias 114b. 

Don't let him know that my cards are A.I.3.b.  Because if he knows my position, he might fold before showing his hand. 

How can I? He already knows everything, but has only forgotten. As much as I hate to admit it, even a mollusk has a soul. And that is straight out from one of Plato's Atlantis dialogues, the Timaeus.

And by the way, for those interested in UFOs and life on other planets, Plato is telling us, indirectly and through the theme of reincarnation, that he knows that life exists on other planets, although he uses the moon and the "instruments of time" metaphorically.

Plato's Timaeus.

Now, when they should be implanted in bodies by necessity, and
be always gaining or losing some part of their bodily substance, then in the first
place it would be necessary that they should all have in them one and the same
faculty of sensation, arising out of irresistible impressions; in the second place,
they must have love, in which pleasure and pain mingle; also fear and anger,
and the feelings which are akin or opposite to them; if they conquered these
they would live righteously, and if they were conquered by them, unrighteously.
He who lived well during his appointed time was to return and dwell in his
native star, and there he would have a blessed and congenial existence. But if
he failed in attaining this, at the second birth he would pass into a woman, and
if, when in that state of being, he did not desist from evil, he would continually
be changed into some brute who resembled him in the evil nature which he
had acquired, and would not cease from his toils and transformations until he
followed the revolution of the same and the like within him, and overcame by
the help of reason the turbulent and irrational mob of later accretions, made
up of fire and air and water and earth, and returned to the form of his first
and better state. Having given all these laws to his creatures, that he might be
guiltless of future evil in any of them, the creator sowed some of them in the
earth, and some in the moon, and some in the other instruments of time;
and
when he had sown them he committed to the younger gods the fashioning of
their mortal bodies, and desired them to furnish what was still lacking to the
human soul, and having made all the suitable additions, to rule over them, and
to pilot the mortal animal in the best and wisest manner which they could, and
avert from him all but self-inflicted evils...................

Thus were created women and the female sex in general. But the race of
birds was created out of innocent light-minded men, who, although their minds
were directed toward heaven, imagined, in their simplicity, that the clearest
demonstration of the things above was to be obtained by sight; these were remodelled
and transformed into birds, and they grew feathers instead of hair.
The race of wild pedestrian animals, again, came from those who had no philosophy
in any of their thoughts, and never considered at all about the nature
of the heavens, because they had ceased to use the courses of the head, but
followed the guidance of those parts of the soul which are in the breast. In
consequence of these habits of theirs they had their front-legs and their heads
resting upon the earth to which they were drawn by natural affinity; and the
crowns of their heads were elongated and of all sorts of shapes, into which the
courses of the soul were crushed by reason of disuse. And this was the reason
why they were created quadrupeds and polypods: God gave the more senseless
of them the more support that they might be more attracted to the earth. And
the most foolish of them, who trail their bodies entirely upon the ground and
have no longer any need of feet, he made without feet to crawl upon the earth.
The fourth class were the inhabitants of the water: these were made out of the
most entirely senseless and ignorant of all, whom the transformers did not think
any longer worthy of pure respiration, because they possessed a soul which was
made impure by all sorts of transgression; and instead of the subtle and pure
medium of air, they gave them the deep and muddy sea to be their element of
respiration; and hence arose the race of fishes and oysters, and other aquatic
animals, which have received the most remote habitations as a punishment of
their outlandish ignorance. These are the laws by which animals pass into one
another, now, as ever, changing as they lose or gain wisdom and folly..

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jaylemurph
2 hours ago, atalante said:


Pettytalk,

In post #1633, Jay said wants to use a dictionary to translate Plato's Critias 114b. 

Don't let him know that my cards are A.I.3.b.  Because if he knows my position, he might fold before showing his hand. 

Sweetie, you posting a "paraphrase" of text you don't provide isn't a paraphrase. It's a claim, and a claim you have no evidence to support. There's a very simple way out of this -- choose a text (Aristophanes, perhaps, to make it a real challenge, or a more suitably obscure text like Procopius' on the Buildings, so fewer pesky translations from others?), post it here in the original, and we'll have at. That way, anyone can use Google to confirm whether the translation is original (ie, doesn't appear in any Google search or Google translate results) and we can see the results. 

No quotes from other sources, no one else doing the work, no "paraphrases."

Can't say fairer than that, unless anyone else has a better idea?

--Jaylemurph 

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Pettytalk
6 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Big talk for an illiterate. Try contributing again when you can speak the language.

...you know, the language of the person you keep insisting you are, yet are curiously completely ignorant of. 

--Jaylemurph 

Kalimera! You are not such a good sport, And you are illiterate in the subject of reincarnation. The reincarnation of the soul into another body, as it has been told you, it does not mandate knowing everything known previously in a former body. And I have already admitted to my illiteracy, but it does not diminish nor exclude the very probable fact that I'm an incarnation of Plato's soul.

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Pettytalk
7 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Sweetie, you posting a "paraphrase" of text you don't provide isn't a paraphrase. It's a claim, and a claim you have no evidence to support. There's a very simple way out of this -- choose a text (Aristophanes, perhaps, to make it a real challenge, or a more suitably obscure text like Procopius' on the Buildings, so fewer pesky translations from others?), post it here in the original, and we'll have at. That way, anyone can use Google to confirm whether the translation is original (ie, doesn't appear in any Google search or Google translate results) and we can see the results. 

No quotes from other sources, no one else doing the work, no "paraphrases."

Can't say fairer than that, unless anyone else has a better idea?

--Jaylemurph 

Much more effective would be a face-to-face exchange in real time, and no texts. We can even charge for admission, and the proceeds go to the charity of the winner's choice.

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Pettytalk
3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Pettytalk

Was waiting for a reply when I saw that nekked rooster run by so I thought you may have run into some troubleTarred and feathered

Hope you are okay and will wait until you have had a chance to clean up.

jmccr8

Better to be a feathered man, than a naked chicken. The American Indians adorned themselves with feathers, therefore I'm going to take it as a compliment!

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jaylemurph
12 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Kalimera! You are not such a good sport, And you are illiterate in the subject of reincarnation. The reincarnation of the soul into another body, as it has been told you, it does not mandate knowing everything known previously in a former body. And I have already admitted to my illiteracy, but it does not diminish nor exclude the very probable fact that I'm an incarnation of Plato's soul.

Yes, I am illiterate about most kinds of shams, cons and tomfoolery, and I leave it to fools and shysters like you to be expert in them.

--Jaylemurph 

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Piney
34 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Much more effective would be a face-to-face exchange in real time, and no texts. We can even charge for admission, and the proceeds go to the charity of the winner's choice.

I'd take you up on that offer. :yes: 

42 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Kalimera! You are not such a good sport, And you are illiterate in the subject of reincarnation. The reincarnation of the soul into another body, as it has been told you, it does not mandate knowing everything known previously in a former body. And I have already admitted to my illiteracy, but it does not diminish nor exclude the very probable fact that I'm an incarnation of Plato's soul.

How can one be literate on something that's complete opinion? Or in your case, a complete lie? 

I'm more than certain that Jay knows all about the concept of reincarnation, being able to read the Vedic texts on it in the original language.  .

So how's the Attic Greek going? 

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Piney
38 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

Better to be a feathered man, than a naked chicken. The American Indians adorned themselves with feathers, therefore I'm going to take it as a compliment!

You actually have to show some bravery for that. :rolleyes:

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jmccr8
1 hour ago, Pettytalk said:

Better to be a feathered man, than a naked chicken. The American Indians adorned themselves with feathers, therefore I'm going to take it as a compliment!

Hi Pettytalk

It wasn't intended as an insult, it was an extended amendment to your attempt at humor. :)

jmccr8

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Pettytalk
1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Pettytalk

It wasn't intended as an insult, it was an extended amendment to your attempt at humor. :)

jmccr8

I'll still consider it as a compliment from you, just for a change. 

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Pettytalk
2 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Yes, I am illiterate about most kinds of shams, cons and tomfoolery, and I leave it to fools and shysters like you to be expert in them.

--Jaylemurph 

You seem to be the fool, as you should know those subjects best of all, if you want to recognize the real cons, shams, fools and shysters. You may consider yourself one of higher learning, but you lack basic common sense. But tell me, are you adding another title to me? Fool and idiot you and some others have called me several times, but now I'm also a shyster to you, as I had not been labeled that by you before. 

But tell me, do you really feel superior to those you take as fools and shysters?  Do you really think Plato and Socrates were fools and shysters for believing and teaching the reincarnation of the soul? About all those millions upon millions of others who also believe in it? You would do yourself a great favor if you would put your keen interest in learning in the Garden and on the tree of knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil. Or you may, seriously, end up reincarnating into a quadruped in your next cycle of life..

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jaylemurph
8 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

You seem to be the fool, as you should know those subjects best of all, if you want to recognize the real cons, shams, fools and shysters. You may consider yourself one of higher learning, but you lack basic common sense. But tell me, are you adding another title to me? Fool and idiot you and some others have called me several times, but now I'm also a shyster to you, as I had not been labeled that by you before. 

But tell me, do you really feel superior to those you take as fools and shysters?  Do you really think Plato and Socrates were fools and shysters for believing and teaching the reincarnation of the soul? About all those millions upon millions of others who also believe in it? You would do yourself a great favor if you would put your keen interest in learning in the Garden and on the tree of knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil. Or you may, seriously, end up reincarnating into a quadruped in your next cycle of life..

Do I feel superior to you?

Yes, in terms of conciseness of language and command of facts. Anything else here is, much like yourself, irrelevant. 

—Jaylemurph

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Piney
11 minutes ago, Pettytalk said:

You seem to be the fool, as you should know those subjects best of all, if you want to recognize the real cons, shams, fools and shysters. You may consider yourself one of higher learning, but you lack basic common sense. But tell me, are you adding another title to me? Fool and idiot you and some others have called me several times, but now I'm also a shyster to you, as I had not been labeled that by you before. 

Pot-Kettle award again. But at least your admitting to being a idiot. :yes:

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jaylemurph
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Pot-Kettle award again. But at least your admitting to being a idiot. :yes:

What does the [redacted] expect, parading himself as an illiterate Plato? That people would believe him? That sort of activity is the definition of a shyster. 

—Jaylemurph  

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Kenemet
21 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Kalimera! You are not such a good sport, And you are illiterate in the subject of reincarnation. The reincarnation of the soul into another body, as it has been told you, it does not mandate knowing everything known previously in a former body. And I have already admitted to my illiteracy, but it does not diminish nor exclude the very probable fact that I'm an incarnation of Plato's soul.

So a valid question would be "what are the proofs of being an avatar of a deceased person?"  You could have many counter-claimants.  How do you reliably know which are correct?  After all, we have several mediums around (I posted links once) who talk to Plato and Socrates (which would mean they haven't reincarnated.) 

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Jodie.Lynne
22 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Can't say fairer than that, unless anyone else has a better idea?

Duel at Dawn? Papyri at 10 paces?

Did the Greeks use papyrus, or were they (clay) tablet users?  That actually might prove more ballistic, at ten paces...

 

Although to be fair, like Shakespeare, one must really read Timaeus & Critias in the original Klingon, to really appreciate the nuances.

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Harte
3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

So a valid question would be "what are the proofs of being an avatar of a deceased person?"  You could have many counter-claimants.  How do you reliably know which are correct?  After all, we have several mediums around (I posted links once) who talk to Plato and Socrates (which would mean they haven't reincarnated.) 

Not necessarily so.

Maybe they called Petty on the phone.

Harte

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Jodie.Lynne
34 minutes ago, Harte said:

Maybe they called Petty on the phone.

I sincerely hope it was a collect call...

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