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Van Gorp

Is this Atlantis ... at the coast of Spain?

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docyabut2
Posted (edited)

 Plato believes in a cyclical theory of history: Human beings suffer in the afterlife, if they were bad, or enjoy a kind of paradise, if they were good, yet after several 1000 years, they start a new life on earth, with almost no memory of the previous life.

 

Perhaps why he was suggesting the culture of Atlantis  existed in reincarnations several 1000 years,  and put it back 10,000 years ago back  before his time, but brought it back to the close to his time1000 years before his time  in reincarnations  

Edited by docyabut2

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docyabut2
Posted (edited)

oh atlantes  to find that report of the ancient southern Spain , a women  geologist discovered  plagues of a ancient culture,   it wasn`t the  Moors   

Edited by docyabut2

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Piney
37 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

oh atlantes  to find that report of the ancient southern Spain , a women  geologist discovered  plagues of a ancient culture,   it wasn`t the  Moors   

Yersinia pestis was probably brought in by the Proto Indo-Europeans and might of caused the Neolithic Decline, but it had nothing to do with Ancient Spain. 

 

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atalante
Posted (edited)

trying to get back on topic ... about Atlantis in Spain ...

 

Since at least 1986, mineralogy has been confirming a sentiment about Gadeira that Pindar expressed in his Nemian 4 - i.e. that Phoenicians were NOT using a trade route in the outer sea to reach France, Brittain, etc. 

A 1986 book about tin, by Penhallurick (which is cited by 240 others in Google Scholar), says there is no archaeological basis for the modern legend that Phoenicians sailed to Britain. 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=17795330611193757229&hl=en&as_sdt=805&sciodt=0,3&scioq=tin+in+antiquity

 

The following summary of Penhallurick's info is from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancient_times

Greece had access to tin from Iberia by way of the Phoenicians who traded extensively there, from the Erzgebirge by way of the Baltic Amber Road overland route, or from Brittany and Cornwall through overland routes from their colony at Massalia (modern day Marseilles) established in the 6th century BC (Penhallurick 1986). In 450 BC, Herodotus described tin as coming from Northern European islands named the Cassiterides along the extreme borders of the world, suggesting very long distance trade, likely from Britain, northwestern Iberia, or Brittany, supplying tin to Greece and other Mediterranean cultures (Valera & Valera 2003, p. 11). The idea that the Phoenicians went to Cornwall for its tin and supplied it to the whole of the Mediterranean has no archaeological basis and is largely considered a myth (Penhallurick 1986, p. 123).

 

Pindar, a century before Plato, had commented (in Nemean 4) that passage westward from Gadeira was impossible.  www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/textdoc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0162:book=N.:poem=4

"Beyond Gadeira towards the western darkness there is no passage; turn back [70] the ship's sails again to the mainland of Europe,"

 

Edited by atalante
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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
1 hour ago, atalante said:

trying to get back on topic ... about Atlantis in Spain ...

 

Since at least 1986, mineralogy has been confirming a sentiment about Gadeira that Pindar expressed in his Nemian 4 - i.e. that Phoenicians were NOT using a trade route in the outer sea to reach France, Brittain, etc. 

A 1986 book about tin, by Penhallurick (which is cited by 240 others in Google Scholar), says there is no archaeological basis for the modern legend that Phoenicians sailed to Britain. 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=17795330611193757229&hl=en&as_sdt=805&sciodt=0,3&scioq=tin+in+antiquity

 

The following summary of Penhallurick's info is from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancient_times

Greece had access to tin from Iberia by way of the Phoenicians who traded extensively there, from the Erzgebirge by way of the Baltic Amber Road overland route, or from Brittany and Cornwall through overland routes from their colony at Massalia (modern day Marseilles) established in the 6th century BC (Penhallurick 1986). In 450 BC, Herodotus described tin as coming from Northern European islands named the Cassiterides along the extreme borders of the world, suggesting very long distance trade, likely from Britain, northwestern Iberia, or Brittany, supplying tin to Greece and other Mediterranean cultures (Valera & Valera 2003, p. 11). The idea that the Phoenicians went to Cornwall for its tin and supplied it to the whole of the Mediterranean has no archaeological basis and is largely considered a myth (Penhallurick 1986, p. 123).

How is that on topic ? It tells us nothing about Atlantis in Spain.

1 hour ago, atalante said:

Pindar, a century before Plato, had commented (in Nemean 4) that passage westward from Gadeira was impossible.  www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/textdoc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0162:book=N.:poem=4

"Beyond Gadeira towards the western darkness there is no passage; turn back [70] the ship's sails again to the mainland of Europe,"

This might tell us where Plato got the idea from, but it tells us nothing about its veracity.

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cormac mac airt
1 hour ago, atalante said:

trying to get back on topic ... about Atlantis in Spain ...

Since at least 1986, mineralogy has been confirming a sentiment about Gadeira that Pindar expressed in his Nemian 4 - i.e. that Phoenicians were NOT using a trade route in the outer sea to reach France, Brittain, etc. 

A 1986 book about tin, by Penhallurick (which is cited by 240 others in Google Scholar), says there is no archaeological basis for the modern legend that Phoenicians sailed to Britain. 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cluster=17795330611193757229&hl=en&as_sdt=805&sciodt=0,3&scioq=tin+in+antiquity

The following summary of Penhallurick's info is from:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancient_times

Greece had access to tin from Iberia by way of the Phoenicians who traded extensively there, from the Erzgebirge by way of the Baltic Amber Road overland route, or from Brittany and Cornwall through overland routes from their colony at Massalia (modern day Marseilles) established in the 6th century BC (Penhallurick 1986). In 450 BC, Herodotus described tin as coming from Northern European islands named the Cassiterides along the extreme borders of the world, suggesting very long distance trade, likely from Britain, northwestern Iberia, or Brittany, supplying tin to Greece and other Mediterranean cultures (Valera & Valera 2003, p. 11). The idea that the Phoenicians went to Cornwall for its tin and supplied it to the whole of the Mediterranean has no archaeological basis and is largely considered a myth (Penhallurick 1986, p. 123).

Pindar, a century before Plato, had commented (in Nemean 4) that passage westward from Gadeira was impossible.  www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/textdoc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0162:book=N.:poem=4

"Beyond Gadeira towards the western darkness there is no passage; turn back [70] the ship's sails again to the mainland of Europe,"

The correct link is: 

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0162%3Abook%3DN.%3Apoem%3D4

cormac

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jaylemurph
1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

How is that on topic ? It tells us nothing about Atlantis in Spain.

This might tell us where Plato got the idea from, but it tells us nothing about its veracity.

Any topic besides him showing competency in Greek is a welcome distraction...

—Jaylemurph  

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docyabut2
3 hours ago, Piney said:

Yersinia pestis

 

4 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

oh atlantes  to find that report of the ancient southern Spain , a women  geologist discovered  plagues of a ancient culture,   it wasn`t the  Moors   

sorry meant plaques :) 

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Piney
1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

 

sorry meant plaques :) 

:lol:

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docyabut2
1 minute ago, Piney said:

:lol:

they were pottery  plaques with many different designs on them and were put around the neck of the dead's  

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docyabut2
3 hours ago, atalante said:

help me find those pottery  plaques with many different designs on them and were put around the neck of the dead in southern spain  

 

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Pettytalk
On 8/17/2019 at 12:13 PM, Harte said:

Not necessarily so.

Maybe they called Petty on the phone.

Harte

My ears were ringing, and sure enough I came to see what the fuss was all about, and now I see that my name was taken in vain again.

I don't dare give you a naked chicken, as I gave to my pride and joy, Jay. I would just be saving you the trouble of plucking it, to then quickly cutting it up, batter the pieces, and then quickly placed in hot oil.

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Pettytalk
On 8/17/2019 at 12:48 PM, Jodie.Lynne said:

I sincerely hope it was a collect call...

 

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jmccr8
9 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

as I gave to my pride and joy, Jay.

Hi Pettytalk

:lol:

Gee Thanks, I feel so special am I at the head of the class now?:lol:

jmccr8

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jaylemurph
24 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Pettytalk

:lol:

Gee Thanks, I feel so special am I at the head of the class now?:lol:

jmccr8

Give him a few days, he’ll be claiming to have raised that chicken from an egg, hand-plucked it, and have taken the picture himself without photoshop. 

—Jaylemurph

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Harte

Plato, photographer supreme.

Harte

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Pettytalk
10 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Pettytalk

:lol:

Gee Thanks, I feel so special am I at the head of the class now?:lol:

jmccr8

You are so vain, you have taken it to mean you. My dear Jay is not a ball.

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Pettytalk
10 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Give him a few days, he’ll be claiming to have raised that chicken from an egg, hand-plucked it, and have taken the picture himself without photoshop. 

—Jaylemurph

My dear Jay, yes you! My family roots include raising chickens directly from eggs. And as far as photography, I have still not regained my Platonic photographic memory, but I will shop around to get the best picture, as I'm putting a foot on you.

 

chick.jpg

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Pettytalk
8 hours ago, Harte said:

Plato, photographer supreme.

Harte

Good one! And if he had come around in this age of technical wonders, I can't but believe that he would have soared well above any great photographer of today, as well.

Plato, a great geographer, but still only a disciple of The greatest human geographer, Socrates.

Plato's Phaedo.

Now the earth has divers wonderful regions, and is indeed in nature and extent very unlike the notions of geographers, as I believe on the authority of one who shall be nameless. What do you mean, Socrates? said Simmias. I have myself heard many descriptions of the earth, but I do not know, and I should very much like to know, in which of these you put faith. And I, Simmias, replied Socrates, if I had the art of Glaucus would tell you; although I know not that the art of Glaucus could prove the truth of my tale, which I myself should never be able to prove, and even if I could, I fear, Simmias, that my life would come to an end before the argument was completed. I may describe to you, however, the form and regions of the earth according to my conception of them. That, said Simmias, will be enough. Well, then, he said, my conviction is, that the earth is a round body in the centre of the heavens, and therefore has no need of air or any similar force to be a support, but is kept there and hindered from falling or inclining any way by the equability of the surrounding heaven and by her own equipoise.

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atalante
On 8/18/2019 at 3:43 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

How is that on topic ? It tells us nothing about Atlantis in Spain.

This might tell us where Plato got the idea from, but it tells us nothing about its veracity.

Neic,

Plato was using a trope that was familiar to his Greek audience, to present verisimilitude.   

The trope was about Gadeira's relationship to Pillars of Heracles - but also Gadeira's relationship to the end of the world -  lēxin de akras - in Critias 114b.   (e.g. Pindar had used a trope that Gadeira was the western end of the known world.)

Since the western end of the known world was also the "most distant edge" of Atlantis's territory (at Gadeira, Spain) - Plato expected his original audience to expect that Atlantis was located in Spain (and somewhat east of Gadeira). 

A neologism is contaminating the minds of modern cynics - that Gadeira/Gades/Cadiz is NOT the western end of the world. 

 

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cormac mac airt
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, atalante said:

Neic,

Plato was using a trope that was familiar to his Greek audience, to present verisimilitude.   

The trope was about Gadeira's relationship to Pillars of Heracles - but also Gadeira's relationship to the end of the world -  lēxin de akras - in Critias 114b.   (e.g. Pindar had used a trope that Gadeira was the western end of the known world.)

Since the western end of the known world was also the "most distant edge" of Atlantis's territory (at Gadeira, Spain) - Plato expected his original audience to expect that Atlantis was located in Spain (and somewhat east of Gadeira). 

A neologism is contaminating the minds of modern cynics - that Gadeira/Gades/Cadiz is NOT the western end of the world. 

From what I can tell, using Liddell and Scott's Greek and English Lexicon, the following phrase: 

Quote

λῆξιν δὲ ἄκρας τῆς νήσου πρὸς Ἡρακλείων στηλῶν

Loosely translates as:  "the furthest point/portion in the direction of the Pillars of Hercules" which has NOTHING to do with the 'end of the world' as you claim. And even then, said part is only concerning the part of Plato's Atlantis that belongs to Eumelus and NOT Atlantis in its entirety. 

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt

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docyabut2
On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 9:37 AM, atalante said:

You probably are looking for this article about analyzing the ancient Iberian plaques.

https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0088296

My thoughts were the plagues were genealogical records, and could be the Atlantiains. 3,500–2,750.bc in southern sprain

it was said these plagues were tie around the necks of the dead, it could this culture s  ancestral  records  

     

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Piney
11 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

My thoughts were the plagues were genealogical records, and could be the Atlantiains. 3,500–2,750.bc in southern sprain

 

They were of Neolithic origin. From the looks of the owl motif probably originating in Anatolia and related to the Basques and Indigenous Corsicans

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docyabut2
14 minutes ago, Piney said:

They were of Neolithic origin. From the looks of the owl motif probably originating in Anatolia and related to the Basques and Indigenous Corsicans

 I  support Lillios's hypothesis that the plaques are genealogical mnemonic recording systems.  Could be in trying to find the first chiefs.

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