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Van Gorp

Is this Atlantis ... at the coast of Spain?

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Harte
2 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Its a copy of the ancient map .

Oh. Well. That explains it then.

Harte

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Harte
8 minutes ago, Piney said:

Consider than "stolen". :yes:

You're not my first.

Harte

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docyabut2
26 minutes ago, Harte said:

All I can say is that the map doesn't look very old, does it?

Also, Simcha Jacobovici  - wasn't he the guy that went forward with his "Exodus Decoded" crockumentary even after finding out that the entire basis of his claim - the dates for the eruption of Thera - had been previously shown to be in error (too late)?

Yeah. Nothing worth any consideration if that guy's in the picture.

Harte

 

The best evidence of a island close to Gades

To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world,

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/critias.html

 

Edited by docyabut2

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Harte

Yeah.

We've all read it.

Believe me. Please.

Harte

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docyabut2
11 hours ago, atalante said:

It is likely that a tsunami struck the region from Huelva to Cadiz bay ca. 1600 BC.

 https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=Xp7VDQAAQBAJ&hl=en_US&pg=GBS.PT39

Close to the dating of the kings of Athens in the war,that they won when the island went under mud,and their  men to.   

Edited by docyabut2

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Piney
On 3/6/2019 at 5:03 PM, docyabut2 said:

I believe the temple of Poseidon was sunken in mud is why we can`nt ever find it

They have equipment which can find a extinct volcano 800 ft. below a glacier deposits. It's called a MAD. There is also ground penetrating radar and LIDAR. 

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Swede
8 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Its a copy of the ancient map .

In specific, what "ancient map"? Please define "ancient".

Maps are a subject of extensive research. Fraudulent constructs can be dissected.

.

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Piney
9 minutes ago, Harte said:

We've all read it.

Having a family member who translated it, I had it jammed in every hole. That's why I hate it and try to forget it. :o

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docyabut2
14 minutes ago, Swede said:

In specific, what "ancient map"? Please define "ancient".

Maps are a subject of extensive research. Fraudulent constructs can be dissected.

.

Look at the map in the movie  that was quickly showed.   

Edited by docyabut2

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docyabut2
17 minutes ago, Piney said:

They have equipment which can find a extinct volcano 800 ft. below a glacier deposits. It's called a MAD. There is also ground penetrating radar and LIDAR. 

If it was from a tsunami , most of it would have been blown away and buried deep deep into the mud, that can`nt be radared under the water level.

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jaylemurph
2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Its a copy of the ancient map .

And I bet you were really surprised when they used to "find" whatever they were looking for, too. Amazing how made-up map's will do that.

--Jaylemurph

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Piney
2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

If it was from a tsunami , most of it would have been blown away and buried deep deep into the mud, that can`nt be radared under the water level.

Errrrr...No. The found whole Native American villages under tsunami deposits and you can use detection devices under water. 

 

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Essan
7 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Its a copy of the ancient map .

Indiana Jones has the original .....

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Harte
9 hours ago, Piney said:

Errrrr...No. The found whole Native American villages under tsunami deposits and you can use detection devices under water.

The place (Donana Park) isn't entirely underwater anyway. There are woodlands, farms and scrub land today where docyabut2's fake Alantis pic shows the city.

map_of_donana_hr.jpg

Harte

 

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atalante
On 3/8/2019 at 7:20 AM, Essan said:

I would say a little earlier as "present day" is 1950.   So 4100 to 3700 BP (as documented here ) would be 2,150 to 1,750 BC.

Essan,
 
Your link cites an old article:  Ruiz (2005).
 
But the Montexano book (on its pages 35-38) is quoting newer research that was published in 2011, and sets the time window for the relevant tsunami at 1900-1500 BC.  https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=Xp7VDQAAQBAJ&hl=en_US&pg=GBS.PT47
 
 
In regard to remnants of a destroyed city, I believe the remnants of 570 BC Tartessos have never been found.  Thus if a city was in this same region a thousand years earlier than Tartessos, remnants today of an earlier city would be even more un-recognizable than Tartessos.
 
The Montexano book does not claim to have found the metropolis city of Atlantis.   But National Geographic was able generate a "searching for Atlantis" type of documentary, while using Montexano as a background consultant.
 
The opening segment of Montexano's book, titled "Atlantis is not an allegory", begins Montexano's argument that a bronze age "equivalent" of Atlantis was already legendary in the records of Middle Kingdom Egypt.  
 
The National Geographic documentary "looked for" possible Mediterranean connections to Egypt's Middle Kingdom legend.

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Swede
20 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Look at the map in the movie  that was quickly showed.   

You are avoiding the question. Please cite the name of the map and/or cartographer along with verified date of the map.

Working from glimpses of a "reproduction" of a purported map appearing in a questionable "documentary" does not qualify as credible information.

.

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docyabut2
53 minutes ago, Swede said:

You are avoiding the question. Please cite the name of the map and/or cartographer along with verified date of the map.

Working from glimpses of a "reproduction" of a purported map appearing in a questionable "documentary" does not qualify as credible information.

.

All I can say is, go to that film( Atlantis Rising ) that Georgeos Díaz-Montexano shows to Simcha Jacobovici the ancient  map ,and points to a spot on the map. In seeing it shortly I saw he was pointing to the  Donana park area, and the map shows a shape of a island  there.    

I can `nt t post the film Atlantis Rising, I  tried  twice starting a thread but was booted. 

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Piney
12 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

All I can say is, go to that film( Atlantis Rising ) that Georgeos Díaz-Montexano shows to Simcha Jacobovici the ancient  map ,and points to a spot on the map. In seeing it shortly I saw he was pointing to the  Donana park area, and the map shows a shape of a island  there.    

 

So the map is purely hearsay.

Because if it wasn't several national and museum archives around the world would have a copy and one would have the original. Including the Ashmolean and the Vatican. 

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docyabut2
2 minutes ago, Piney said:

So the map is purely hearsay.

Because if it wasn't several national and museum archives around the world would have a copy and one would have the original. Including the Ashmolean and the Vatican. 

I`m trying to remember, Georgeos Díaz-Montexano  show us that map twenty some years ago,and I think he said he got a copy of it at the Vatican 

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Piney
1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

I`m trying to remember, Georgeos Díaz-Montexano  show us that map twenty some years ago,and I think he said he got a copy of it at the Vatican 

Then there will be a archive of it in other places and mention of it by other researchers.

 The Vatican is pretty stiff about letting people see stuff. They have the oldest Eastern Algonquian artifacts that weren't dug up in a site compliments of explorers and slavers. Only one person from the Heye Foundation was ever allowed to see them but he was not allowed to photograph them. I have serious doubts they made him and him alone a copy of a map without also giving a copy to Oxford and Princeton. 

Without another person or institution having a copy I'm calling B.S. 

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docyabut2
2 hours ago, Piney said:

Then there will be a archive of it in other places and mention of it by other researchers.

 The Vatican is pretty stiff about letting people see stuff. They have the oldest Eastern Algonquian artifacts that weren't dug up in a site compliments of explorers and slavers. Only one person from the Heye Foundation was ever allowed to see them but he was not allowed to photograph them. I have serious doubts they made him and him alone a copy of a map without also giving a copy to Oxford and Princeton. 

Without another person or institution having a copy I'm calling B.S. 

Just look a the film, and what you see at that part, what would your opinion be?  

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Piney
3 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Just look a the film, and what you see at that part, what would your opinion be?  

My opinion is already fraud. I had a family member that translated the story for Oxford. It was a big interest among my family in the U.K. if such map existed a copy would be in the Ashmolean and there would of been a Jowett waving it all over. 

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The Wistman

The National Geographic special was on the other night, and I saw the part with the map.  It was described as a Byzantine copy of an ancient map.  No more details that I can remember.  I dunno...it seemed to be too 'fresh' to be authentic...though it was hard to tell.  The support seemed too papery, and they handled it rather roughly, for something so old and rare. 

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cormac mac airt
5 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

The National Geographic special was on the other night, and I saw the part with the map.  It was described as a Byzantine copy of an ancient map.  No more details that I can remember.  I dunno...it seemed to be too 'fresh' to be authentic...though it was hard to tell.  The support seemed too papery, and they handled it rather roughly, for something so old and rare. 

I saw the same show. There was nothing old or rare about it. 

cormac

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Harte
32 minutes ago, The Wistman said:

The National Geographic special was on the other night, and I saw the part with the map.  It was described as a Byzantine copy of an ancient map.  No more details that I can remember.  I dunno...it seemed to be too 'fresh' to be authentic...though it was hard to tell.  The support seemed too papery, and they handled it rather roughly, for something so old and rare. 

From Jason Colavito's review of this crockumentary:

Quote

Atlantis Rising is a documentary for people who don’t like documentaries. Slick and superficial, it cheerfully glosses over facts and subsumes logic beneath the siren song of personality. It is less a search for Atlantis than a chronicle of the filmmakers’ own ego-trips as they indulge in the fantasy that they are uniquely touched by genius in the effort to find the one true meaning behind the legend of Atlantis that has somehow escaped the notice of thousands of previous investigators over thousands of years. It is the kind of documentary where the audience is an afterthought. If you were not familiar with Plato’s Atlantis before the show started, you won’t come out the other side any the wiser, but you will have learned many false facts and come away with the impression that a cast of lunatics, obsessives, and frauds are actually respected and careful scholars. In other words, Atlantis Rising is full of “alternative facts” spouted by dilettantes and poseurs pretending at wisdom. It is the perfect show for our time.

Further along in his review:

Quote

Montexano adds another layer of absurdity when he presents what Jacobovici calls an “ancient Egyptian map,” but which is no such thing. It’s a Byzantine-era map based on Claudius Ptolemy’s geographic coordinates. Ptolemy’s original map does not survive, nor any direct ancient copy of it. The exact source of the Greek language map Montexano uses is not given, except to say it is in the British Museum. Freund, Jacobovici, and Montexano all are thrilled that Tartessos, which they conflate with the Biblical Tarshish, appears on the Greek map exactly where ancient Greek geographers said it would be. This is only exciting if you think Tarshish = Tartessos = Atlantis, a claim that logic does not allow us to accept. Certainly the Greeks (e.g. Strabo 3.2.11; Pausanias 6.19.3) never thought Tartessos was Atlantis.

Now we can know without subjecting ourselves to the stupid.

Harte

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