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docyabut2

The books of the Bible

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docyabut2

If anything one just would read about Jesus in the NT and the  four earlier  gospel witness would get it.  and not with Paul a Christian killer that only claim he saw him in a vision where he only knew Jesus,s trial and resurrection., and changed to go to rome 

Edited by docyabut2

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DebDandelion

I don't  know what to respond? Is this a statement or question? 

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docyabut2
5 minutes ago, DebDandelion said:

I don't  know what to respond? Is this a statement or question? 

a statement  deb just read the words in the four gospels  of Jesus  of the first in the NT

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DebDandelion

Docy. I have to tell u straight that I totally disagree with your statement about Paul.

He is so much more than a Christian killer. Read his books (chapters) again. It was his personal journey from someone who acted under instruction from authority to knowing Jesus. The transition that took place physically, emotionally and spiritually for him as writer 

To really know Jesus u have to use the bible as a starting point (gives you background context) but the real journey is a spiritual one that u can only get once u walk a road next to HIM.

He will enlarge your comprehension ten fold, trust me. Been there. Its not as simple as reading the bible. 

Why do I say this?

A) the bible has been translated so many times that the message stays the same (and relevant) but the sentence construction, translations etc became the translators perception and understanding

B )  understanding Jesus is not what the bible says. That's HIS history, HIS experiences, observations people had while He was here. Understanding Jesus comes from experiencing HIM

C) when I picture the bible being translated I always see people looking at each other asking how to best translate this word since it can be translated differently for some. So they chose the best word they thought would fit into the sentence, and there lies my challenge. 

D) again, the Bible is a mere starting point. The true knowledge comes from a personal journey

 

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docyabut2
32 minutes ago, DebDandelion said:

Docy. I have to tell u straight that I totally disagree with your statement about Paul.

He is so much more than a Christian killer. Read his books (chapters) again. It was his personal journey from someone who acted under instruction from authority to knowing Jesus. The transition that took place physically, emotionally and spiritually for him as writer 

To really know Jesus u have to use the bible as a starting point (gives you background context) but the real journey is a spiritual one that u can only get once u walk a road next to HIM.

He will enlarge your comprehension ten fold, trust me. Been there. Its not as simple as reading the bible. 

Why do I say this?

A) the bible has been translated so many times that the message stays the same (and relevant) but the sentence construction, translations etc became the translators perception and understanding

B )  understanding Jesus is not what the bible says. That's HIS history, HIS experiences, observations people had while He was here. Understanding Jesus comes from experiencing HIM

C) when I picture the bible being translated I always see people looking at each other asking how to best translate this word since it can be translated differently for some. So they chose the best word they thought would fit into the sentence, and there lies my challenge. 

D) again, the Bible is a mere starting point. The true knowledge comes from a personal journey

 

Again do you ever read  the four gospels of Jesus`s  witnesses ? but most of all my life  church's talks more about what Paul had to say  but not Jesus `s sayings :(

Edited by docyabut2

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danydandan
5 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Again do you ever read  the four gospels of Jesus`s  witnesses ? but most of all my life  church's talks more about what Paul had to say  but not Jesus `s sayings :(

If you have any direct quotes from Jesus please post them. 

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DebDandelion

I have read mark, Matthew .Luke and John (if that is what u r referring to) 

I have read the whole bible. You don't need Jesus sayings, for His experience comes from experience with Him. There is no go to guide for quick reference kinda thing.

Do I make sense?

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Clockwork_Spirit

To understand Christianity you have to read everything. The New Testament (as well as The Old Testament for context), The Pauline Epistles and the Gnostic Gospels. Only then can you have a clear view of what the early followers of The Way saw in Christ Jesus and their different interpretations.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit

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docyabut2
7 minutes ago, DebDandelion said:

I have read mark, Matthew .Luke and John (if that is what u r referring to) 

I have read the whole bible. You don't need Jesus sayings, for His experience comes from experience with Him. There is no go to guide for quick reference kinda thing.

Do I make sense?

Isn it in important  what Jesus had to say :)

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DebDandelion
1 minute ago, docyabut2 said:

Isn it in important  what Jesus had to say :)

Me and u are not understanding each other, could be my fault. 

What Jesus has to say cannot be printed on a meme like a captain Jack sparrow qoute. He works with each of us differently.

The people who wrote about Jesus wrote what He told people (call them parabols?) And that was His words, again, translated but the idea would stay the same.

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danydandan
2 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Read the Gospel of Thomas.

It's 114 sayings of Jesus, or logia. Each one of them begins with ''Jesus said:''

https://lifeintegrity.com/Gospel-of-Thomas-Scholars-Version.pdf

 

And not one are direct quotes from Jesus.

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Clockwork_Spirit
10 minutes ago, danydandan said:

And not one are direct quotes from Jesus.

Jesus did not write any of his teachings down. Neither did the Buddha, for instance.

But the author of the Gospel of Thomas is reporting what he believes are ''secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke''.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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danydandan
1 minute ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Jesus did not write any of his teachings down. Neither did the Buddha, for instance.

But the writer of the Gospel of Thomas is reporting what he clearly thinks are direct quotes from Jesus.

You don't know that, no body knows that. For all we know there some scrolls somewhere that Jesus wrote. But the likelihood of a carpenters son being able to read and write back then is very very slim.

My point is all anyone can do is take the apostle's word for what Jesus said. You state it clearly, the author thinks the quotes are direct from Jesus. 

What date is the Gospel of Thomas most likely written in? Between 60-250 ad. So how can anyone say with certainty that these quotes are direct?

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docyabut2
6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

And not one are direct quotes from Jesus.

If you are a priest ,all my life the only preachers skipped though the bible and tell of the OT and of Paul   and so much of why Jesus died  and not of all his sayings of  why he  lived :huh:

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danydandan
2 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

If you are a priest ,all my life the only preachers skipped though the bible and tell of the OT and of Paul   and so much of why Jesus died  and not of all his sayings of  why he  lived :huh:

Im not a priest.

What type of Christian are you?

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Clockwork_Spirit
20 minutes ago, danydandan said:

My point is all anyone can do is take the apostle's word for what Jesus said. You state it clearly, the author thinks the quotes are direct from Jesus. 

It's very possible that Jesus had one form of teachings for the masses and a secret, esoteric teaching for his disciples which were passed down privately. In most cases these teachings would initially be transmitted through private conversations, but eventually someone would write them down, often in the form of secret sayings.

Quote

What date is the Gospel of Thomas most likely written in? Between 60-250 ad. So how can anyone say with certainty that these quotes are direct?

Many scholars are dating it around 40-150 A.D. which makes it pretty much the Fifth Gospel.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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Rlyeh

How do you know they were witnesses? The gospels were written by anonymous authors.

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danydandan
17 minutes ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

It's very possible that Jesus had one form of teaching for the masses and secret, esoteric teachings for his disciples which were passed down privately. In most cases these teachings would initially be transmitted through private conversations, but eventually someone would write them down, often in the form of secret sayings.

Many scholars are dating it around 40-150 A.D. which makes it pretty much the Fifth Gospel.

Put it this way, can you remember a conversation you had 40 years ago with utter clarity that you could directly quote it word for word?  Plus the Authors are anonymous and makes any argument for their validity moot.

In regards to Thomas's Gospel, the dates seem to be between 60-250 ad. I've never seen it dated earlier than 60ad and 250 ad has been proposed by some dude I can't remember. But I agree it's probably the first written Gospel. It's an interesting read for comparison to the Biblical Gospels, you could infer there was a split in the group after reading all the Gospels.

Edited by danydandan
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and then
3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Again do you ever read  the four gospels of Jesus`s  witnesses ? but most of all my life  church's talks more about what Paul had to say  but not Jesus `s sayings :(

Jesus came to give the gospel to HIS people at that time.  Paul was anointed by Christ to carry that message to the Gentiles.  When Jesus returns, His first mission will be to physically save His people from their enemies, then to rule over the whole world.

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DebDandelion
2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

If you are a priest ,all my life the only preachers skipped though the bible and tell of the OT and of Paul   and so much of why Jesus died  and not of all his sayings of  why he  lived :huh:

But that is what I am trying to tell you. Its a book, old testament  and new testament are different times in history.

Although HE might not have been quoted as such, HIS teachings were written down. 

And even if your priest chose to preach about certain parts u should embrace the whole book. 

If u read the book In context u will understand why Jesus came. 

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Scudbuster
8 hours ago, and then said:

Jesus came to give the gospel to HIS people at that time.  Paul was anointed by Christ to carry that message to the Gentiles.  When Jesus returns, His first mission will be to physically save His people from their enemies, then to rule over the whole world.

Soooo, who are these "enemies" you speak of - and I guess he'll be another dictator/facist ruler type figure...?

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Tatetopa
On 11/17/2018 at 10:38 PM, Clockwork_Spirit said:

It's very possible that Jesus had one form of teachings for the masses and a secret, esoteric teaching for his disciples which were passed down privately. In most cases these teachings would initially be transmitted through private conversations, but eventually someone would write them down, often in the form of secret sayings.

Do you think it likely that a being come to save the world and all mankind  would keep important secrets just for  his bros?  Remember the story of Jonah?  I think I have heard that God loves everybody, I haven't heard that he plays favorites. There is the parable of the vineyard, the workmen who come late are paid the same as those who came at dawn.  I think all of the word is there for all to read. 

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Tatetopa
On 11/17/2018 at 10:33 PM, danydandan said:

Im not a priest.

You are a good human being though.

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GoldenWolf
On 11/17/2018 at 11:01 PM, Clockwork_Spirit said:

To understand Christianity you have to read everything

Turn the other cheek to evil, hate your family, deny yourself life, suffer, sacrifice your life for someone who calls himself your savior, pray for the end of the world, worship god.

New testament = Evil

Edited by GoldenWolf

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