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violetraven7

Demon oppression? Spirit of the dead? Shadow?

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Or what they need, or think they need. My best guess is that in some instances they get so caught up in their 'creation' that they start to develop emotional attachments that sometimes lead to sexual attraction.

There you go. A fantasy reality created in order to cope with actual reality. Instead of facing it, they run from it. 

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Kittens Are Jerks
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

There you go. A fantasy reality created in order to cope with actual reality. Instead of facing it, they run from it. 

Perhaps it's their only way of coping. A bit of insanity so that one can remain sane. It makes sense as a knee-jerk interim self-preservation tactic, the danger, however, being that the longer one remains in that place, the further away reality gets.

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joc
On 11/18/2018 at 9:27 PM, violetraven7 said:
 
Hello! I just joined the group as I've researching spirit attachment stories & related things the past couple hours. And then I finally decided to find a forum so that I could, for the first time, open up about my story with the intention of asking for an outsiders opinion.

My opinion is that you were possibly abused as a child and you blocked out the actual abuse and remember it as the Black Mist.  Common for young children with no understanding to do so.  You do need to see a therapist about it.  That is my opinion.  My opinion is based on the sexualization of the Black Mist Entitiy.  There is a reason for it to exist...however...the reason is in your brain...not in a Spirit from Anywhere Else.  And because of the sexualization of it...you really need to figure that one out sweetheart.

 

 

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Not A Rockstar
11 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

Like a belief system whereby it's passed from one generation to the next.

And are there stories of such spirits engaging in sexual relations with whomever they're attached to?

Not speaking to you KAJ, just your question, this is not personal but the topic is sliding into bad territory when it starts tossing the Vodou around so I had to put the hat on.

*puts on the Vodou asogwe hat and picks up the asson*

disclaimer: I don't care about opinions, belief or unbelief, or sensibilities about the topic of Vodou am just stating facts of the faith as passed down in my lineage from Africa through Haiti.

Some clarity here to the topic from Haitian Vodou.

Vodou originated djabs do NOT engage in sexual fantasies or events with sevitors and talk along these lines is not pleasant to read. Vodou spirits don't do this with random people out there though there are stories about specific lwa who are married to specific, favored followers who have a private relationship with spouses. The sexual aspects of the OP story are not related to Vodou spirits. Surprisingly, the Vodou pantheon are extremely traditional and MARRY followers they have a relationship like this with. There is a literal wedding, not someone random deciding they are chosen as Ogou's bride or whatever. Hogwash, that.

I also fully understand and respect differing views here but if one starts to talk about Vodou, then take that tradition in its own context and when it comes to djabs, one needs to cease with the "imaginary friend" and "thought form" labels. They are independent of people and can manifest freely on their own. They do not attach as such and are not parasitic. They also do not go around to random people looking for someone to serve them and let them in. It is somewhat possible that these very cossetted and closely held entities began created similar to a servitor in western ceremonial meaning, but highly unlikely. Process used today to bring about and begin such a helper is different from western ceremonial, so it probably always was. Modern terms tossing "thought form" at things have zero relativity to a being, however it began, which has been maintained and fed and organized for centuries. You do not poof away a being like this with some burning sage.

Please understand also that terms like "djab" have different meanings and nuances depending on the culture one is thinking from. Djabs are known in Islam as well, though often referred to as genies in lore. Those are different if you really go into the rabbit holes they come from. Words have been taken and appropriated for a long time and concepts and words within Vodou certainly have been, limited only in that it is secretive and in a foreign language so has not been wholly mauled by others :) They ARE, however, mercenaries, genies and djabs both.

Bringing Vodou and our "people" into this is problematic as the OP has not once said she has anything to do with it, and all I am reading here is an independent wild talent (maybe) who did too much  and is now dealing with the blowback and part of her process of learning is to sort this out and decide who her higher authority is to ask for that help if she needs intervention. Blowback hurts. A lot. You learn and so will she, and hopefully lose some of the anger/pain fueled arrogance. This is her road to travel. 

Hitting the wall and seeing your life implode seems to be de rigeur on the path and is part of the experience many workers know too well, whether they overcome it or end up buried. It is just part of the price one finds out after the fact. 

Bitter waters.

Thanks for reading.

*takes hat off, tosses asson on the altar, and goes for more coffee*

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Piney
9 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Thanks for reading.

Sorry about that. 

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Not A Rockstar
3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Sorry about that. 

I wrote for future readers, my dear Bro, never you. Peace.

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XenoFish

Rockstar I respect your opinion. But I have come to believe that all entities from every paradigm are some type of thoughtform. They are created through belief. 

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Piney
1 minute ago, Not A Rockstar said:

I wrote for future readers, my dear Bro, never you. Peace.

I always use Djab in a Hoodoo sense. What we call Chii'pai. 

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Not A Rockstar
3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Rockstar I respect your opinion. But I have come to believe that all entities from every paradigm are some type of thoughtform. They are created through belief. 

and I respect yours, out here, Xeno. You know this.  We have cordially disagreed and enjoyed each other for a while now, and agree on a great deal actually. But, your belief does not govern anything at all but your reality, same as any of us.

They were drifting into Vodou and in my world if you speak about a religion then use the religion in context as it understands itself. For too many decades outsiders have raped and pillaged Vodou in Hollywood and New Age and all I want is to see it spoken of in context, believe in it or not and an end to the hysterical bs enemies have spewed so heavily others mistake it honestly as truth about Vodou. 

No Vodou in this topic thus far.

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XenoFish

New Age has ruined magick. There are no magicians who have willpower any more. 

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Not A Rockstar
14 minutes ago, Piney said:

I always use Djab in a Hoodoo sense. What we call Chii'pai. 

There are djabs and there are Djabs :D 

Words get used in many ways and it can confuse. The first time I heard a Wiccan calling a Middle Eastern genie a djab I did a facepalm LOL. 

It is a can of worms, for real, to sort out meaning.

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Kittens Are Jerks
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Rockstar I respect your opinion. But I have come to believe that all entities from every paradigm are some type of thoughtform. They are created through belief. 

That's my belief as well. We're creatures of biological and neurological quirks, and the better we come to understand what we're capable of, the less we'll mistake errant signals in the brain for something other than what they really are. Perhaps we'll also have less of a need to impose meaning on events that may have none.

But yeah sure, I get it. The paranormal world is far more interesting and mysterious than the one offered by science. And sometimes it's easier to rely on paranormal explanations than to face a reality that is far more frightening.

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Not A Rockstar

Ah yes, the old "can't face reality, must be fearful, superstitious and ignorant" trope. 

It's all good and I am not going to derail the OP more than it has been. 

There really is room in the world for different views on "reality" without stigmatizing folks. 

 

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Kittens Are Jerks
8 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said:

Ah yes, the old "can't face reality, must be fearful, superstitious and ignorant" trope. 

It's all good and I am not going to derail the OP more than it has been. 

There really is room in the world for different views on "reality" without stigmatizing folks.

I agree with your last point, but do not agree with your first. That wasn't at all what I meant, and you were wrong to read so much into it. I've not once insulted or belittled anyone for their beliefs, and see no reason to start now. My point still stands. I realise it's general in nature, but one specific example would be a fear of a mental illness diagnosis. Or any fear, for that matter, that can be assuaged by a paranormal explanation. It has nothing to do with superstition or ignorance, but everything to do with self-preservation.

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ChrLzs
On 21/11/2018 at 4:30 AM, Not A Rockstar said:

Ah yes, the old "can't face reality, must be fearful, superstitious and ignorant" trope. 

NAR, I too respect your posts normally... but this one????  Can you point out the exact words that KAJ used, that you interpreted as "can't face reality, must be fearful, superstitious and ignorant", because I don't get that impression no matter how I read the post...

Both the real world and our brains' systems to deal with it, are incredibly complex.  More often than not, we see lots of rapid leaps to paranormal explanations without the leapee properly discussing or debating even a small proportion of the possibilities, often not even acknowledging quite basic stuff like the malleability of memories...

 

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Not A Rockstar
24 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

 Can you point out the exact words that KAJ used, that you interpreted as "can't face reality, must be fearful, superstitious and ignorant", because I don't get that impression no matter how I read the post...

Both the real world and our brains' systems to deal with it, are incredibly complex.  More often than not, we see lots of rapid leaps to paranormal explanations without the leapee properly discussing or debating even a small proportion of the possibilities, often not even acknowledging quite basic stuff like the malleability of memories...

The words mean exactly that and I do not see how they can be misinterpreted, unless KAJ meant them to the OP and not me. However, quoting Xeno speaking to me, makes it directed to me. I already stated in my first post to clarify how Vodou sees the sexuality question which arose that I don't care about others' beliefs, was merely posting what Vodou says about its own business. I have never preached here. I refuse students of Vodou. I am not even actively running a House these days. I am not the OP, I posted to clarify Vodou, not anything else. 

If KAJ has an issue with me, I don't know about it, and your request surprises me, over a minor exchange, but, ok, here is what she said. It is quite direct, though couched in nice words. You are a well educated man. The words mean what they say. She (he?) wrote them and certainly knows what was meant. It is the skeptic position here at UM, essentially. 

I said she used the trope of "can't face reality, must be fearful, [it's easier to rely on paranormal explanations than to face a reality that is far more frightening.] superstitious[Perhaps we'll also have less of a need to impose meaning on events that may have none.] and ignorant [We're creatures of biological and neurological quirks, and the better we come to understand what we're capable of, the less we'll mistake errant signals in the brain for something other than what they really are.]"

Maybe I should have used "delusional" instead of "ignorant". Sorry about that.

This trope is used daily here in one form or other for anyone who balks at immediately embracing the skeptic position. Believe in God, demons or UFOs, it gets applied to end discussion. Every discussion about anything of the sort is rapidly attacked and derailed if it does not comply. 

Not reading too much into it, it is what was said very nicely, gently and even formed in third person to not attempt to be hurtful by someone I take as a friend, and I pointed it out.

That is all. 

Hit my inbox if anyone else thinks it is appropriate. This is honestly bizarre and upsetting but, I really am done derailing this OP any further. Maybe it is time I get back on my own website and books and spend less time here. That will make at least one person I know of happier, briefly, until something new chaps his backside lol.

I will give it some thought over the holiday.

Happy Thanksgiving those who celebrate it. Gratitude is a good thing. Pilgrims not so much :) 

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XenoFish

Well maybe I'll start calling all this stuff escapism, so the trope police don't get their knickers in a knot. 

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joc
On 11/20/2018 at 9:48 AM, Not A Rockstar said:

They were drifting into Vodou and in my world if you speak about a religion then use the religion in context as it understands itself. For too many decades outsiders have raped and pillaged Vodou in Hollywood and New Age and all I want is to see it spoken of in context, believe in it or not and an end to the hysterical bs enemies have spewed so heavily others mistake it honestly as truth about Vodou. 

Not trying to start a food fight here....B)

....but in that regard...how is Voodoo any different than Christianity or any other religion?  The OP is talking about the possibility of a Demon...and that does in fact conjure up images of ....Religious Something or Others.  So...my point is...if someone brings up Demons...they are, by default, bringing up the subject of religions...regardless of their positioning on the planet.

Demons are ..... by definition Spiritual Entities.  That in and of itself invokes religion into the equation...not just Christianity but any religion including Voodoo.  And, let's face the truth here...Hollywood rapes and pillages all religions...it's just part of what they do.

Interesting though....I did not know you were a:

 

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XenoFish
28 minutes ago, joc said:

Demons are ..... by definition Spiritual Entities.  That in and of itself invokes religion into the equation...not just Christianity but any religion including Voodoo.  And, let's face the truth here...Hollywood rapes and pillages all religions...it's just part of what they do.

Demons arose from the idea of daemons. Christianity however loves to twist things to fit it's narrative. Turning daemons into horrible servants of satan. 

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joc
Just now, XenoFish said:

Demons arose from the idea of daemons. Christianity however loves to twist things to fit it's narrative. Turning daemons into horrible servants of satan. 

It doesn't matter though...the origins of it don't really matter anymore...it's all mainstream belief.  Christianity, Islam, Voodoo...it's all the same street.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, joc said:

It doesn't matter though...the origins of it don't really matter anymore...it's all mainstream belief.  Christianity, Islam, Voodoo...it's all the same street.

True. It just goes to show how personal beliefs/ideas can go mainstream. Especially in this media saturated culture. Even my own definition of a demon probably isn't original at all.

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Jenn8779
6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Well maybe I'll start calling all this stuff escapism, so the trope police don't get their knickers in a knot. 

Wow.... this has really surprised me. I honestly never would have thought you especially would be this disrespectful. I think highly of you and this makes me feel very sad :(

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XenoFish
8 minutes ago, Jenn8779 said:

Wow.... this has really surprised me. I honestly never would have thought you especially would be this disrespectful. I think highly of you and this makes me feel very sad :(

No one thinks highly of me. I don't understand why you would. 

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Jenn8779
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

No one thinks highly of me. I don't understand why you would. 

Because you're incredibly intelligent and I have sensed compassion for others in many of your posts, even when you're trying to appear grumpy and cynical. Because you obviously spent a great deal of time searching and questing for knowledge, experience and understanding. Because of how much you love your wife and what you sacrifice for her to make sure she has what she needs and at great cost to yourself. I have a strong feeling you do that for others as well.

I think you sell yourself short much of the time. I wish you could see what I do, even though I only know you from this forum. You are one of the people on here who brought me back. 

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XenoFish
8 minutes ago, Jenn8779 said:

I wish you could see what I do

I can't see anything regarding myself. What I do is done because I see it as a sense of duty. To what and why I do not know. You and others have told me I am a good man, I do not see it. Perhaps I am afraid to. 

In the context of this thread. I have a deep sense of escapism from the OP, a way of masking her pain, because it is easier to run from it than face it. While this idea might not set well with others, it is a real thing. She needs help from a professional in order to work through all that's happened. Not because we told her to, but for her own sake. To better adjust to the world around her. Fantasy has it place, it shouldn't override reality.

Edited by XenoFish
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