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John Hilton

Electrocuting people with psychic power

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John Hilton

I recently read a book by Osho titled “ In Search of the Miraculous”. In a chapter about shaktipat, Osho mentions other false methods by which gurus create an electric shock in the body. I consider this to be one of the greatest mysteries I have yet to observe, because no one has a clue about what is meant. Here is the passage: 

 “
You take energy from the food you eat and this energy charges the batteries in your body. Therefore, many times you feel the necessity to recharge the batteries. A man is tired and spent by the evening. A good night’s rest recharges him. However, he does not know what it is that recharges him in sleep. During sleep some influences are at work upon him. Much psychic research has been done andwe know what kind of forces work on him in sleep. If a man wishes he can take advantage of these influences in the waking state. Then he is capable of giving you energy shocks that are not even magnetic but which are of the body electricity. You can mistake this for shaktipat.
There are many other ways of pseudo shaktipat that are equally false. They are in no way connected with the actual transmission of divine energy. If a person has no knowledge of body magnetism, of body electricity, but he knows the secret of breaking the electric circuit of your body, he can give you energy shocks then too. There are many ways of breaking your body’s electrical circuit, and when this is disturbed you receive a shock. Nothing comes from the other person toward you but you feel the shock. It is the shock of your own body electricity which has been disturbed

Can anyone explain further what he means? This is supposedly a high level mystery which no one has been able to answer to me.

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moonman

static electricity.

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John Hilton
Just now, moonman said:

static electricity.

  No it’s more than that

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moonman
13 minutes ago, John Hilton said:

  No it’s more than that

Says who? That article you posted describes exactly that - static buildup. There are no details, nothing very descriptive, just some nonsense about food, sleep and "shocks". It's static electrical shocks explained by someone who doesn't know the science behind it.

Edited by moonman
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XenoFish
25 minutes ago, John Hilton said:

  No it’s more than that

You do realize that our bodies do not conduct electricity well. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_injury

https://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/nervous-system/human-body-make-electricity1.htm

We also don't generate much of it. If we did we'd burn out our nervous system.

So yeah. Static electricity. 

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third_eye

A reminder regarding 'Osho'

~

Quote

 

~

Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, also called Osho or Acharya Rajneesh, original name Chandra Mohan Jain, (born December 11, 1931, Kuchwada [now in Madhya ...

 

~

Apr 25, 2018 - The Netflix docuseries Wild Wild Country follows the saga of the Indian guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and his cult in 1980s Oregon.

 

~

Apr 7, 2018 - Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh with his followers in Rajneeshpuram, Oregon, as seen in the TV series Wild Wild Country. Photograph: Netflix.
 
~

 

 

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Robotic Jew
20 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You do realize that our bodies do not conduct electricity well. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_injury

https://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/nervous-system/human-body-make-electricity1.htm

We also don't generate much of it. If we did we'd burn out our nervous system.

So yeah. Static electricity. 

Stop posting logical explanations!

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

Stop posting logical explanations!

giphy.gif

I'm hurt. So deeply hurt. Overwhelmed with emotional pain right now.

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moonman

So this Osho guy was a cult leader involved in all manner of illegal garbage - yeah, I'll pass on believing anything he says.

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John Hilton
Just now, moonman said:

So this Osho guy was a cult leader involved in all manner of illegal garbage - yeah, I'll pass on believing anything he says.

That actually would be a reason to believe him. He exerted mind control over thousands of people. 

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XenoFish
Just now, John Hilton said:

That actually would be a reason to believe him. He exerted mind control over thousands of people. 

So do conmen. It isn't mind control its gullible people and simple suggestion. Don't drink the kool-aid. 

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Stiff
8 minutes ago, John Hilton said:

That actually would be a reason to believe him. He exerted mind control over thousands of people. 

Can you tell him to pack it in. I've got a banging headache at the moment and it won't go away :angry:

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Timothy
1 hour ago, John Hilton said:

I recently read a book by Osho titled “ In Search of the Miraculous”. In a chapter about shaktipat, Osho mentions other false methods by which gurus create an electric shock in the body. I consider this to be one of the greatest mysteries I have yet to observe, because no one has a clue about what is meant. Here is the passage: 

*snip (passage)*

Can anyone explain further what he means? This is supposedly a high level mystery which no one has been able to answer to me.

Welcome to UM @John Hilton,

So, you read that, and consider it to be ‘one of the greatest mysteries...’ and suggest it’s a ‘high level mystery’?

Why? 

Good news: You can stop telling people that no one has been able to answer you. (to you? Did you mean to write it like that?)

Is there anything of more substance you want to present? Or is static electricity going to keep you sated?

Edited by Timothy
Formatting.

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John Hilton
6 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Welcome to UM @John Hilton,

So, you read that, and consider it to be ‘one of the greatest mysteries...’ and suggest it’s a ‘high level mystery’?

Why? 

Good news: You can stop telling people that no one has been able to answer you. (to you? Did you mean to write it like that?)

Is there anything of more substance you want to present? Or is static electricity going to keep you sated?

No, static will not keep me satiated.  I don’t think anyone understands this passage, I will look elsewhere.

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Timothy
3 minutes ago, John Hilton said:

No, static will not keep me satiated.  I don’t think anyone understands this passage, I will look elsewhere.

I did mean sated.

How much have you looked? That you don’t think anyone understands the passage is a bit telling.

That also includes you. You consider it a mystery.

Can you please return here and post your answer when you are satiated? Sated would be better, but satiated will do.

You’ll be doing us all a great service.

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stereologist
1 hour ago, John Hilton said:

I recently read a book by Osho titled “ In Search of the Miraculous”. In a chapter about shaktipat, Osho mentions other false methods by which gurus create an electric shock in the body. I consider this to be one of the greatest mysteries I have yet to observe, because no one has a clue about what is meant. Here is the passage: 

 “
You take energy from the food you eat and this energy charges the batteries in your body. Therefore, many times you feel the necessity to recharge the batteries. A man is tired and spent by the evening. A good night’s rest recharges him. However, he does not know what it is that recharges him in sleep. During sleep some influences are at work upon him. Much psychic research has been done andwe know what kind of forces work on him in sleep. If a man wishes he can take advantage of these influences in the waking state. Then he is capable of giving you energy shocks that are not even magnetic but which are of the body electricity. You can mistake this for shaktipat.
There are many other ways of pseudo shaktipat that are equally false. They are in no way connected with the actual transmission of divine energy. If a person has no knowledge of body magnetism, of body electricity, but he knows the secret of breaking the electric circuit of your body, he can give you energy shocks then too. There are many ways of breaking your body’s electrical circuit, and when this is disturbed you receive a shock. Nothing comes from the other person toward you but you feel the shock. It is the shock of your own body electricity which has been disturbed

Can anyone explain further what he means? This is supposedly a high level mystery which no one has been able to answer to me.

1. A body does not have batteries in the sense of an electrical battery. We store energy in the form of larger molecules such as fat.

2. No. Psychic research does not have a clue as to the forces on a person asleep or at any other time.

3. Magnetics does not deliver a shock. Shocks are delivered by electricity.

4. Sorry, but no divine energy either.

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moonman
14 minutes ago, John Hilton said:

No, static will not keep me satiated.  I don’t think anyone understands this passage, I will look elsewhere.

So if no one understands the passage (including yourself), how can you expect any sort of answer?

You can't answer jibberish.

 

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John Hilton
3 minutes ago, Timothy said:

I did mean sated.

How much have you looked? That you don’t think anyone understands the passage is a bit telling.

That also includes you. You consider it a mystery.

Can you please return here and post your answer when you are satiated? Sated would be better, but satiated will do.

You’ll be doing us all a great service.

Yes, very well. This passage relates to body electric and the auric force present in us all. This energy is used in Mesmerism. That might help in interpreting the article. Anyway, the first two examples given, are quite clear, it’s the third one where he mentions disturbing the body electricity in someone else, when things become vague, That being the great mystery.

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moonman

Nothing in that passage is "clear". Unless you are referring to an outside source, nothing logical can be surmised from that word salad.

The only great mystery here is why someone would bother trying to decipher the rantings of a charlatan.

Edited by moonman

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Timothy
24 minutes ago, John Hilton said:

Yes, very well. This passage relates to body electric and the auric force present in us all. This energy is used in Mesmerism. That might help in interpreting the article. Anyway, the first two examples given, are quite clear, it’s the third one where he mentions disturbing the body electricity in someone else, when things become vague, That being the great mystery.

It isn’t clear at all. 

What is the mechanism that causes this? What does it actually do? 

It might help us to know where you’re coming from. Can you post your best link(s) for information on ‘auric force’ and ‘Mesmerism’.

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stereologist
3 hours ago, John Hilton said:

Yes, very well. This passage relates to body electric and the auric force present in us all. This energy is used in Mesmerism. That might help in interpreting the article. Anyway, the first two examples given, are quite clear, it’s the third one where he mentions disturbing the body electricity in someone else, when things become vague, That being the great mystery.

Wasn't mesmerism shown to be incorrect by Benjamin Franklin who was the ambassador to France?

This was one of the first cases of a skeptical inquiry into a practice. IIRC, it was shown that the people that perceived the animal magnetism did it whether or not Mesmer's methods were being used. It was shown to be imagination at work.

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John Hilton
1 hour ago, stereologist said:

Wasn't mesmerism shown to be incorrect by Benjamin Franklin who was the ambassador to France?

This was one of the first cases of a skeptical inquiry into a practice. IIRC, it was shown that the people that perceived the animal magnetism did it whether or not Mesmer's methods were being used. It was shown to be imagination at work.

Can you send me a citation?

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stereologist
12 hours ago, John Hilton said:

Can you send me a citation?

No problem. 

http://www.pbs.org/benfranklin/l3_inquiring_mesmer.html

Quote

King Louis XVI, who was not as taken with Mesmer as his wife and other members of his court, commissioned the French Academy of Sciences to investigate Mesmer and his therapeutic claims. The academy appointed a number of prominent scientists and citizens to the investigating committee. Among the members were scientists Antoine Lavoisier, Paris mayor Jean Bailly, Dr. Joseph Guillotin, and, of course, Benjamin Franklin.

Quote

The commission's public report concluded that there was no scientific evidence of animal magnetism and that the cures attributed to it may have either happened through a normal remission of the problem or that the cure was some form of self-delusion. 

Mesmer's attempts to avoid the commission's work failed, and he quickly lost popularity. He left France and died years later in Switzerland. Although Franklin and his colleagues debunked many of Mesmer's practices and theories, Mesmerism continued to be practiced for another century or so and had a resurgence in England during the late Victorian period. 

Whether he was a charlatan, a showman, or a true believer in his own practices, Franz Mesmer is credited as being one of the fathers of modern day hypnosis and psychotherapy. 

https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/PTmCRK1VMG4sXH3mxuGfaN/Benjamin-Franklins-guide-to-spotting-pseudoscience.html

Quote

Franklin reasoned that if Mesmer’s magnetic interpretation was correct, the effects should be the same whether or not patients were blindfolded. The experiment that followed was a precursor to today’s double-blind controlled trials. What the investigators controlled were two specific variables—whether patients were told they were getting the treatment or not, and whether they really were treated.

The investigators found that patients reacted to the treatments only if they were told they were getting them. Others were not treated, and they reacted too—but only if told they were in fact getting mesmerized. (In a true double-blind study, researchers are also “blinded” as to whether patients are getting the treatment or not.)

http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi710.htm

Quote

Nor can they study Mesmer's cures. No doubt he cured many people just by keeping them out of 18th-century doctors' hands. What they can do is look for the effects of animal magnetism.

So they replicate Mesmer's sessions -- over and over. Franklin, Lavoisier, and the rest sit for 2½ hours at a time around a container filled with magnetized rods. Like Mesmer, they play eerie music on a glass armonica. The glass harmonica, ironically enough, was something that Franklin had developed.

Quote

Mesmer also made his cures available to the public. He claimed to've magnetized certain trees in Paris. You can cure yourself by hugging them. So they take a Mesmer disciple to five such trees at Franklin's home. He embraces one at a time. At the fourth he falls in a swoon. But they've tricked him. They've applied magnets only to the last tree, the one the man never reached.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/07-08/franklin.aspx

Quote

Mesmer made a fortune running several clinics and attending private parties, often of upper-class women. The ladies would convulse, scream and faint as Mesmer waved his hands over them or touched them. The potential indecency of the gatherings— and the fact that some of Mesmer’s disciples began espousing revolutionary ideas — attracted the attention of King Louis XIV.

Quote

The commissioners conducted several tests to determine whether animal magnetism was real or imagined. In one experiment, they tricked a young woman into believing that Mesmer disciple Charles d’Elson was in an adjacent room, directing animal magnetism toward her through a closed door. The woman responded by falling into convulsions and biting her hand so hard she left a mark. Another young woman drank water she believed to have been magnetized, but wasn’t. She fainted, and was given a bowl of water to drink to revive her — water that, unbeknownst to her, had been “magnetized.” That bowl of water had no effect.

I hope this is sufficient. If you read the articles they state that what Franklin did in 1782 was to lay the foundations for proper clinical studies using blinding and controlling for the power of the mind, i.e. the placebo and nocebo effects.

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stereologist

The Franklin story is about as famous as the N-rays story when it comes to pivotal moments when science has simply caught people fooling themselves. I'm not saying Mesmer was a hoaxer or scammer. It is very possible that Mesmer thought he was on to something.

It is this ability for people to fool themselves that requires experiments to try out ideas we have. When ideas show that something is not viable then it is time to come up with a new idea.

The mesmerism story comes out of a general area known as vitalism in which it is believed that things inside of living beings are fundamentally different from the same things outside of living beings. Testing over the years has shown that if two materials are the same, then their origin is not important. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism

In the OP the Bhagwan supposes that we can produce electricity. We do. But, it is not powerful. Maybe the OP quote would suggest that we can do like an electric eel or other animal that is capable of producing a noticeable charge. Other animals are able to produce and sense lower charges. But humans certainly cannot do it. We don't possess the necessary organs. The Bhagwan also gets the basic science wrong mixing up magnetism with electricity. That's common enough.

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Wes83

To be fair, the man possessed some sort of magnetism I, for one, have a little trouble understanding. 

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